Are you religious?

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    Serious_Much
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:44 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote: the definition in many people's minds for this term doesn't reflect the religious background, only the legal.

    You're forgetting that most laws originated from religion, and marriage is one of the prime examples. The legal definition IS the religious definition.

    Still though, your debate is different from mine, as the U.S is secular they have no obligation in their laws to keep to religion, whereas Britain does, hence why marriage will never be a catch all term for hetero and homosexual marriage.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:45 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    as the U.S is supposedly secular they have no obligation in their laws to keep to religion, whereas Britain does, hence why marriage will never be a catch all term for hetero and homosexual marriage.

    Fixed that for you. silly
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:46 pm

    Serious, I didn't forget it.....that's actually what I was saying. The original definition was made by man from religion and is able to be be flexible now that the trends are different.

    True dat on your second point.

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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:47 pm

    And actually the U.S. isn't inherently secular, the separation of Church and State means there is no "official" religion nor laws to prohibit a specific religion from being practiced. The intent was never to avoid religious doctrine from influencing law but to have the popular sentiment rule the day.

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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:49 pm

    Tolvo, I was talking in official terms, not practical ones silly I'm well aware that America houses many religions, just like there is a significant Muslim community in Britain, yet we are still officially all christian :roll:


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:51 pm

    Serious that kind of reminds me of how one of the biggest mud slings against Obama was claiming that he was Islamic. I know so many people who got scared and outraged when they believe he was a Muslim. Oh boy, just oh boy the people I know.

    Actually I remember during the riots a group actually tried to run an entire Islamic community out in one of their "Ghettos" in England, and all of them showed up with Islamic Ceremonial weapons and scared the rioters/looters off. I thought that was a pretty cool story.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:58 pm

    lol, I don't think there are ghettos in England apart from the ones certain black guys in my old school claimed they were from (yet had the money to go to a boarding school, I think they were deluded as to what a 'ghetto' truly was, they acted a bit too stereotypical to be cool, pretty sad in my opinion)

    I must say I never heard that story, though that sounds like one that the press would have lapped up.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:39 pm

    Googling information on the reaction of the Muslims to the riot is quite difficult, as every single response is "Are Muslims to blame for the England Riots of 2011/12?"

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201181210928899563.html

    This looks promising, though I haven't read through the whole thing yet.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Extertionist on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:38 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    Extertionist wrote:I'm somewhat educated in religion in general. I consider myself to be a mix of Buddhist and Satanist. Buddhist because I believe to accept whatever happens and move on. Satanist because it encourages questioning everything because commonly throughout religious mythos, satan is simply someone who argues against a position to make one see it the topic through all view points hence devil's advocate.

    Do you genuinely practice this belief? Or do you just hold up the idea of questioning things? You don't make it clear really (and I know little of satanism), though I generally think that the ability to question the norm isn't something exclusive to satanism, or off limits to those who believe in God/any other religion, you can see this trait in more liberal sects of believers.

    Have you ever read any parts of paradise lost? I've meant to look at some extracts but sadly I've not really had the time or motivation.

    I've got to say though, saying you have beliefs in certain religious faiths isn't the same as just appreciating ideals from them. I take ideals from many faiths but to me it doesn't make myself a believer in said faith. Correct if I've misunderstood what you've said though since you seemed a bit vague.

    Also, using such a sweeping statement as "Christians are close minded" is pretty ignorant. I can say safely this is not the case, at least for english christians anyways.
    Ultimately, my biggest religious ideal is to move on and accept things, though I do practice the antithetical ideals of satanism.

    Also, when I am referring to christians being close minded, I was primarily speaking of american christians, the bible belt in particular. I say they are generally close minded as how else can you explain why someone like Santorum got enough power to run for president.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Quarik on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:53 pm

    That's borderline flaming. I'm sure there are moderate christians, it's just that, like in every other facet of society, the extremists are the most vocal.

    Neil deGrasse Tyson FTW! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:56 pm

    Well, I don't know anything about "bible belt states" but I presume they're a bit.. in your face about belief? People who actively seek converts? I'm not in a position to comment on the religious standpoint of American Christians, but I'm sure they are far from being the majority.. I'll see how others respond anyway.

    I see, so your beliefs are more so rooted in satanism, what ideals are there beyond questioning the norm and such? Like I said, it's a dark area for me and I know little of satanism or any non major religion.


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:00 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:00 pm

    They're basically the loud minority, so people think the worse of the entire group when the silent majority are just fine people. That's an easy way to think of it. Kind of like us atheists, we have the loud minority of people who hate religion, when the rest of us are just indifferent really.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:05 pm

    Well Tolvo it's the loud minority that allows there to be a simply seen divide between agnostics and atheists, so you should be thankful for them really silly

    But okay I get the picture, you don't get many people like that in Britain, the only extremists for the most part here are muslims, some of their campaigns can be pretty funny, like trying to declare certain areas are under shariah law rather than the laws of the queen lol!


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:09 pm

    Except I'm an atheist and an agnostic, so I don't want there to be a perceived divide really.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Extertionist on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:10 pm

    I don't understand how Muslims can be so pushy about their religion when the Quran actually discourages it.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:12 pm

    A lot of radical and fanatics actually follow government and faction based religious views, rather than actual Islam. If they followed the Quran they would have the most peaceful region on the planet probably.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:15 pm

    Tolvo, to be fair there is, you can be an agnostic atheist by not shutting out the ideal completely, but others do not have agnosticism in their approach at all. It just depends what atheists really think about the proposition of deity and existence beyond our senses.

    Also Tolvo, to be fair extremists tend to pick and choose what they read and practice, the crusades over a thousand years ago are no different in this way to modern extremists. They pick and choose. Hell, the Catholics actually created their own law on "Just War" for the sole purpose of allowing the crusades to go ahead, amusingly.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:18 pm

    I more so mean there are people whom which upon hearing I'm an agnostic say, "Well wait, you said you were an atheist a moment ago," and do not realize there are two divisions mainly. Theist, Atheist. A person cannot be both, and is one of those two. Man think it goes Theist, Agnostic, atheist, but it doesn't. And that always causes me to have to spend ten minutes explaining definitions to people and can be really annoying.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:25 pm

    Yes well religious belief is more a sliding scale with general terms slapped somewhere along the line, though I find the idea of agnostic theists to be a tad paradoxical, but I'm sure that ideal can be explained better than it seems in my head. silly


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:26 pm

    "I believe there is a god, I can't prove it of course and I can't say I know there is one. But I just believe there is one."

    An Agnostic Theist.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:29 pm

    Also "We may one day prove god's existence, but you can never disprove his existence."


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:31 pm

    Well technically you can't disprove the existence of anything, you can only prove the existence of something.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:31 pm

    Tolvo wrote:"I believe there is a god, I can't prove it of course and I can't say I know there is one. But I just believe there is one."

    Any sensible religious believer

    fixed that for ya winking

    Seriously though, you can see what I mean by saying it's paradoxical, I suppose I'm like that but then it's more that logically, it's impossible to say 100% there is a deity, and it's even less possible to prove it..

    Then again I take my own 'proofs' from the empirical world, even though I know I cannot prove to others there is I can prove to myself there is, maybe that is the difference really.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:34 pm

    Your own beliefs are more important than what anyone thinks about your beliefs.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:35 pm

    Some people just view evidence in different manners. To some just looking out at the world is proof enough of their god, and really who am I to say that's not sensible? I don't think they should just be dismissed, it's just that they view the world in a different way than I.

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