Are you religious?

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    Extertionist
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Extertionist on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:36 am

    True King Doran wrote:I could go on for days about my beliefs, but it scales down to a few points:
    1) I think gods in the conventional sense are just misinterpreted understandings of alien life which are on an overall higher plane of existence, in terms of intellect, morals, technology, etc.
    2) I think said aliens influenced humanity under the guise of gods, but since we were so underdeveloped at the time, the masses couldn't understand the concept of "aliens" but rather decided to just consider them gods (Ancient Astronaut Theory)
    3) I believe worship is unnecesarry: it's all well and good to respect and love your parents, but constantly praising them and consciously attributing every quirk of nature and/or reality to them is just a waste of time. If you believe there is a god out there, great, but what good does it really do anyone to be constantly told how awesome they are? They just get a big ego, but apparently the divine have a thing for being worshipped.
    4) Finally, I believe that even if there ARE gods in the conventional Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Rastafarian [does they even have gods?] sense, that they should forgive me for being skeptical of their existence. As omnipotent beings they should really, you know, make it more obvious that they are real and they control everything. After all, a god that punishes sinners for eternity simply because they were unsure which god to believe in, well i don't know if that's a god i would want to worship in the first place.
    Thanks Wade, because I freaking love sharing my views with other people, even thought everyone just thinks its batshit insane :cyclops:
    First, Rastafarians believe they can attain enlightenment through smoking weed. Second, I do believe a lot of what your saying with the aliens cause I think that the aliens may have simply greatly exaggerated their rulers and made them sound like almighty omnipotent beings when they were really just people of power. It wouldn't be to uncommon seeing as that until the end of WW2, the Japanese had a god king as did many south american empires and even modern North Korea.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:56 am

    Extertionist wrote:I'm somewhat educated in religion in general. I consider myself to be a mix of Buddhist and Satanist. Buddhist because I believe to accept whatever happens and move on. Satanist because it encourages questioning everything because commonly throughout religious mythos, satan is simply someone who argues against a position to make one see it the topic through all view points hence devil's advocate.

    Do you genuinely practice this belief? Or do you just hold up the idea of questioning things? You don't make it clear really (and I know little of satanism), though I generally think that the ability to question the norm isn't something exclusive to satanism, or off limits to those who believe in God/any other religion, you can see this trait in more liberal sects of believers.

    Have you ever read any parts of paradise lost? I've meant to look at some extracts but sadly I've not really had the time or motivation.

    I've got to say though, saying you have beliefs in certain religious faiths isn't the same as just appreciating ideals from them. I take ideals from many faiths but to me it doesn't make myself a believer in said faith. Correct if I've misunderstood what you've said though since you seemed a bit vague.

    Also, using such a sweeping statement as "Christians are close minded" is pretty ignorant. I can say safely this is not the case, at least for english christians anyways.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by ARSP on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:15 am

    Extertionist wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:
    Extertionist wrote:I'm somewhat educated in religion in general. I consider myself to be a mix of Buddhist and Satanist. Buddhist because I believe to accept whatever happens and move on. Satanist because it encourages questioning everything because commonly throughout religious mythos, satan is simply someone who argues against a position to make one see it the topic through all view points hence devil's advocate.

    I;ve come across this view of satanism before. Be very careful when talkking to christians though beause some react badly when you say "Im a satanist". That actually happened to the person who said it. he was talking to the wrong people.
    I hate to say it but I think many christians are a bit close minded when it comes to understanding religion. Like to me, most of them haven't bothered to view it beyond what the bible says and therefore a lot of them assume heretics are awful people who want nothing but evil.

    Most of the people who I know that are really closeminded are mostly Catholics and Southern Baptist. These individuals are really close minded(I said the people I know I don't think that all Catholics and Southern Baptists are close minded). But I am Northern Baptist since I live in a huge city I run into plenty of people who have different religious beliefs. I can't agree with all of them so here is my policy when it comes to religion. DONT TALK ABOUT IT !!!!!


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by True King Doran on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:43 pm

    Hey c'mon guys don't forget we are here to bash other religions, we're here to discuss our own personal beliefs, not say what's wrong with other religions.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:45 pm

    Exactly Doran, maybe talk about the religions of other and ask questions, but definitely how the word close minded is being thrown around is not a good thing.

    Serious I've read both Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained, great books. It's interesting how much of modern Christianity is based off of those two books.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:55 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Exactly Doran, maybe talk about the religions of other and ask questions, but definitely how the word close minded is being thrown around is not a good thing.

    Serious I've read both Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained, great books. It's interesting how much of modern Christianity is based off of those two books.

    I'd like to hear extertionist (dunno why it's not extortionist..) elaborate on his beliefs rather than say stuff like that lol, sounds quite interesting actually.

    Ah I see, modern christian beliefs in terms of what though? I thought it was poetry based upon Lucifer?


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Wade_Wilson on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:59 pm

    Do you think that most modern young people are atheist or alternative? It seems to me that traditional religions are falling out of favour with todays youth. Do you think this trend will continue.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:01 pm

    Modern beliefs regarding to hell and heaven are very related to those two tales, just like how the modern view of hell is incredibly based off of the Divine Comedy. Demon's torturing people, paying for your sins for eternity and all that. That's in the Divine Comedy. What does the bible say about hell? It's bad, has fire, and smells nasty. It's kind of like how modern angels are based off of paintings from the Renaissance, it's kind of funny how much artwork and literature has influenced Christianity really.

    Then there's the fact that by definition an Angel is a type of Demon, things get a bit odd when you start researching things too much about religions haha.

    Also let's just say in the bible Satan and Lucifer are actually two different entities, in modern Christianity they are considered one in the same. Where is the earliest known literature that stated they are the same person, and spawned it all? Paradise Lost if I remember correctly.

    EDIT: Wade it's actually kind of annoying. A lot of them are doing it just as a form of being rebellious, and taking it out on the existing religions. So there ends up being a lot of people who just assume atheists are just people who hate religion, one of the main reasons I typically keep my religious beliefs hidden is because of the effect of these people. It makes it harder for the rest of us.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:06 pm

    Also, Coca-Cola turned Santa's suit to their trademark red. Tolvo has a great point despite my insane comment. Religion reflects the current trends and times just like all aspects of culture. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the term "Lord of Darkness" and "Lucifer" in the same sentence, obviously ignoring the etymology.

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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:08 pm

    It's also interesting that Satanists who are theistic tend to mirror Christianity, so if something effects them it effects the Satanists as well. Thus, you'll find some Satanists praise Lucifer even though that really doesn't make any sense, it all just gets really confusing sometimes. Technically they should follow the ideas of Lucifer, but not Satan.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Wade_Wilson on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:11 pm

    I did not reject religion out of rebellion. I made a considered, thought out decision to reject the notion of a God.

    Do you think religion still has too much influence in todays politics/education/society?



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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:11 pm

    Not to be too glib but in my opinion, the roots of most religions boil down to "don't be an a-hole." And as such.....I can agree in large part or in whole to any religion.

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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:13 pm

    I thought that they were always considered one and the same: Satan the devil/Lucifer the fallen angel. If I remember rightly he is the original demon?

    Tolvo, yes it is true that there's been things like that, but there was always the ideals of Hellfire and torture for Hell before Milton.. I they stem mainly from philosophers, for instance ones from all the way back to the 4th century in Theodicy state Hell has fire of some sort, in fact Augustine of Hippo's ideals on Hell I believe were the original indication that the idea of hell was infinite punishment for finite sin.

    However the angel's thing.. I have no idea but I think that may have been around before.. The painters usually had something to go off, as their work always had to be commissioned by the all powerful catholic church (back in those times anyway)


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by True King Doran on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:13 pm

    It's not the fact that religion is falling out of flavor, it's that the subconscious desire for religion is less pressing now-a-days. I read a report on a study done by some university or independent research group, and damn it if i can't remember, but evidence in the study showed that atheism was more prevalent in those families in which financial stress, and actually all kinds of stress, were less than those of, say a family in the slums of India, or a crime-ridden part of Somalia. The study group suggested that this supports the theory of religion being a "safety net" of sorts for many. When their life is hard it is is a comfort to think/know that there is something bigger than themselves out there, that everything is done for a reason, and that there is something after their brief existence on this planet. I believe that many people are just becoming more comfortable with viewing the world through clear eyes, untinted by religious dogma, because they don't need to believe in an omnipotent power guarding over them or guiding their lives. I think people are just getting more used to the idea that their life is truly their own, and they're fine with that.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:18 pm

    This is in regards to Wade's Question-Uh...to see my view just look at how homosexual Marriage is doing in America.

    The same goes for the laws that don't allow atheists to be witnesses/jurors/judges in court, and don't allow them to hold a public office in certain states.

    Yes Serious there are older, I'm just talking about the literature that caused a real spike and change in the beliefs. Milton probably got some ideas from them, the same for Dante. Frankly the issue becomes also that some of history is a bit lost in record and translation, especially in regards to religion. The Art of Angels though is very well recorded, and yes it actually has to do with the Catholic Church. They wanted angels to be more presentable so had them painted to resemble humans with wings in armor with mostly fair faces. When in actually Angels were believed to be things like, golden wheels within wheels with hundreds of coloured eyes, beings of pure light that have 16 wings just to cover their bodies so they don't blind others, and essentially Chimera.

    Skare, most of Satanists believe that you shouldn't be an A-hole, but if someone is an A-Hole to you, be an A-Hole back to them as retribution. The Satanic bible is an interesting read really, and that was just a little paraphrase on my part haha.

    Doran it's always interesting to see the trends of religion in the world, but that's a trend that maybe shouldn't be talked about because some people might take offense.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by True King Doran on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:24 pm

    I figured, so i tried to keep it all very loose. The study "suggested", not "proved".I "believe", not I "know". If it really offends anyone, i'll happily edit it. But I will not entirely remove my own views from an open thread discussing beliefs, saying something offends you doesn't give you the right to control other's beliefs. Not that anyone even has said anything yet lol


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:25 pm

    I know, I'm just trying to keep things as peaceful as possible, in regards to religious discussions it is always like sitting there watching people hold lighters next to fireworks just waiting, and hoping nothing sets of you know?
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Wade_Wilson on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:26 pm

    Not that I support the ban on homosexual marriage, but in religious terms a marriage is between a man and a woman. I can kinda see where they are coming from when they say they don't want *** marriage, but I would like to see civil partnerships allow the same legal rights as marriage does.

    Edit: Wait, g a y is blocked by the censor filter? Dafuq?


    Last edited by Wade_Wilson on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:27 pm

    That's kind of my point. You have something relating the state, governed by religious views. Partnership shouldn't have anything to do with religion.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:30 pm

    Yup...that whole controversy was because Church and State weren't as separate as people assumed they should be (or others wanted them even less separate). Technically it was always a discussion about two separate things, the ritual of marriage which varies by religion and the contract of marriage which grants certain legal rights, etc.

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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by True King Doran on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:31 pm

    haha a good analogy, but sometimes those fireworks are more like missiles than anything else lol... And as for homosexual marriage, i've never understood the ban on it. Why should anything that doesn't harm the user be illegal? Speeding is illegal because it decreases your reaction time. Cocaine is illegal because it's extremely addicting and dangerous when used regularly, or even irregularly. Marijuana is illegal because.....uhm, pass. Semi-automatic guns are largely illegal because they're 100x more dangerous than say a pistol in the wrong hands. But homosexual marriages hurt... who? Paying for a wedding bolsters the economy (lol i think idk anything about it really) and all it does is formally allow to people who love each other to get married. It doesn't hurt anyone, so why not let them do it?


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Wade_Wilson on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:32 pm

    Thats why I said that civil partnerships should be functioningly identical to marriage. Homosexuals get full legal partnership rights, religious folks don't have to change, everyone wins.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

    Because this is America. Pure and simple, it's a very religious country, so religious views will dictate how things work. And if the main religion is against homosexuality, well then homosexuals aren't going to have the same rights as everyone else.
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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:36 pm

    I think it's fine if homosexuals want marriage, but it can't be called as such. It completely goes against the long standing definition of who marriage is between and also what spiritually it means in many faiths.

    They can have the rights and everything, but it should be called *** marriage at the least, as it is not the same as a heterosexual marriage in terms of the definition of marriage for a number of reasons.

    However tolvo you think your country is religious? Officially it's a secular nation, in Britain our entire law system is based upon Christianity, specifically the church of england's beliefs.

    also I agree with whoever said it's silly to have *** in the language filter, any homosexual person I know is fine to be called and and refer to their sexuality as to be ***. It's the layman's term for it.


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    Re: Are you religious?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:38 pm

    What Tolvo said.......also, you have to remember that there are those who truly believe in what they say. If you felt in your heart that something was evil and an affront to god/nature/etc. you'd try to stop it too. I don't agree with that viewpoint and think they're very wrong but I understand the zeal.

    Serious, not to say you're right or wrong because you're neither, just a person expressing beliefs but good point. Marriage is a definition constructed by man to mean a certain thing. However, the winds are changing slowly at least here and the definition in many people's minds for this term doesn't reflect the religious background, only the legal.


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