Battle for DkS II Tournament - Who's The Strongest (XBOX360) (COMPLETED)

xRamenatorx wrote:

bameegatrops wrote:^30 percent more magic damage taken for dusk crown Ram, further proving your point

Yea i know haha i said uhhhh that the user of the crown takes 10percent more dmg than he dishes out so iwas implying 30percent xD. I should be on later today if you want to do somethin on Dark souls

xRamenatorx wrote:

Edit: none of this is aimed at you juutas xD

Juutas wrote:Some clarification why some things are considered tryhard:

Dark Wood Grain Ring

With this ring you can basically decide when you want to be hit and when not, because of the crazy i-frames. Counter hits are way more difficult to land and after kick hits fail.

If using DEX or STR weapons with it you don't really need to sacrifice that many stats from endurance or vitality since you only need to invest 28/40 points for them, it is always worth the lost hp or endurance, because you are very, very difficult to even hit.

This ring makes roll bs walk in the park.


Pyromancy

Well....it's free. Only thing you need to invest is few points in attunement to get all the most powerful pyro-castings to your backpocket. Even on the high fire resistance setup it strikes ridicilous dmg, expecially great combustion and black flame are so badly unbalanced that there is no other in this game. Expecially DEX-builds benefit greatly from pyro because of the speed buff.


Crown of dusk

Makes any casting do ridicilous dmg.


Dark Bead and Pursuers

Have potential to one shot players with no effort at all and benefit greatly from lag/latency.


Katanas

Just the most optimal weapons in the game. Only need investment in DEX, have good dmg (expecially Chaos Blade), bleed (expecially Chaos Blade), crazy good moveset and decent range (expecially on Chaos Blade and Washing pole).


Blader Side Sword

This thing has insane range and speed + is a total pain in the *** with Leo ring + it overshadows all other straightswords since it has most of the scaling on only DEX.


Buffs

Dark Moon Blade and Sunlight Blade just add way too much dmg that's all there is.


Family Masks

After the recent patch these are not so much of a problem, but still the most optimal armor choice for head gear after the Crown of Dusk and Crown of the Dark Sun. Just a patch of shame really.


Spears

Do I really even have to say? Unbeatable when using the poke flip poke flip technique.



These were my best explanations why some things are considered tryhard.
I don't really care what things people use in the tournament, bring what ever you want and use what ever you want, but I really hope people still have some imagination.

Juutas wrote:

xRamenatorx wrote:

Edit: none of this is aimed at you juutas xD

Of course I too have my own code of rules that I follow, but I don't expect others to follow my wishes/standards.

Bowdownbe4me wrote:

P.S. it kills me to see someone argue that X tactic is unbeatable. As for your flippy spear comment, I invite you to duel myself or wgt07 sometime and bring the best flippy spear game that you can. (No, this isn't some attempt to compare e-peens. I genuinely want more people to understand that there *are* hard counters to these tactics which we call "cheap").

Juutas wrote:

Bowdownbe4me wrote:

P.S. it kills me to see someone argue that X tactic is unbeatable. As for your flippy spear comment, I invite you to duel myself or wgt07 sometime and bring the best flippy spear game that you can. (No, this isn't some attempt to compare e-peens. I genuinely want more people to understand that there *are* hard counters to these tactics which we call "cheap").

Actually I have dueled wgt07 before and you too for that matter.
Yes of course there is counters, but those counters do not work even half the time and are not available for all the builds and don't stop them from being overpowered.
Spears + flip ring in a hand of good player is pain to ANY player and this can be seconded by 90% of good PvP players I know, if it is not problem for you then congratulations, but for most it is, even for the best of us.

Bowdownbe4me wrote:

Juutas wrote:

Bowdownbe4me wrote:

P.S. it kills me to see someone argue that X tactic is unbeatable. As for your flippy spear comment, I invite you to duel myself or wgt07 sometime and bring the best flippy spear game that you can. (No, this isn't some attempt to compare e-peens. I genuinely want more people to understand that there *are* hard counters to these tactics which we call "cheap").

Actually I have dueled wgt07 before and you too for that matter.
Yes of course there is counters, but those counters do not work even half the time and are not available for all the builds and don't stop them from being overpowered.
Spears + flip ring in a hand of good player is pain to ANY player and this can be seconded by 90% of good PvP players I know, if it is not problem for you then congratulations, but for most it is, even for the best of us.

Which counters are you thinking of that don't work even 50% of the time? I would hardly call that a counter.

Spears demand that you play differently than if you were facing another weapon. It's the same exact thing with the Great Scythe (my preferred weapon). If you try fighting a spear by attacking between pokes or out-ranging it then you aren't going to win. Likewise, if you try playing cautiously against a GScythe like you may against any other weapon, you'll be in for a hard time. That doesn't mean either of these weapons are unbeatable, but rather that they need to be handled differently.

The spear's distance game is easily shut down by a proper turtle, and if this turtle is using a rapier then all the better. Shutting down their distance game forces them into a bs fishing game because that's the only viable avenue for dealing damage. Counter fishing > fishing, and with a rapier in hand the counter fish is even more dangerous. Long story short, if you face a flippy spear poker, try being patient and hiding behind a shield with a rapier. The shield poke is a bonus, but your real intent should be to bait them into fishing you, and then counter fish. If they commit to an attack at close range into your shield (spear shield-poke distance is fine), bait them into doing this more frequently and then turn the tables and tank one of their pokes for a free poise-bs.

As for this strategy needing a dedicated build: an elemental rapier and decent shield is all you need. A 2 weight heater shield and a chaos estoc (which requires only 12 dex) would easily suffice.

Now, if you issue with spears isn't that they are unbeatable, but rather that they force you into a far less diverse playstyle, then that's another story. But the fact of the matter is that you were arguing that they are OP, not that they make pvp boring. And frankly it frustrates me to hear people go on about how some tactics are unbeatable.

Juutas wrote:

Bowdownbe4me wrote:

Juutas wrote:

Bowdownbe4me wrote:

P.S. it kills me to see someone argue that X tactic is unbeatable. As for your flippy spear comment, I invite you to duel myself or wgt07 sometime and bring the best flippy spear game that you can. (No, this isn't some attempt to compare e-peens. I genuinely want more people to understand that there *are* hard counters to these tactics which we call "cheap").

Actually I have dueled wgt07 before and you too for that matter.
Yes of course there is counters, but those counters do not work even half the time and are not available for all the builds and don't stop them from being overpowered.
Spears + flip ring in a hand of good player is pain to ANY player and this can be seconded by 90% of good PvP players I know, if it is not problem for you then congratulations, but for most it is, even for the best of us.

Which counters are you thinking of that don't work even 50% of the time? I would hardly call that a counter.

Spears demand that you play differently than if you were facing another weapon. It's the same exact thing with the Great Scythe (my preferred weapon). If you try fighting a spear by attacking between pokes or out-ranging it then you aren't going to win. Likewise, if you try playing cautiously against a GScythe like you may against any other weapon, you'll be in for a hard time. That doesn't mean either of these weapons are unbeatable, but rather that they need to be handled differently.

The spear's distance game is easily shut down by a proper turtle, and if this turtle is using a rapier then all the better. Shutting down their distance game forces them into a bs fishing game because that's the only viable avenue for dealing damage. Counter fishing > fishing, and with a rapier in hand the counter fish is even more dangerous. Long story short, if you face a flippy spear poker, try being patient and hiding behind a shield with a rapier. The shield poke is a bonus, but your real intent should be to bait them into fishing you, and then counter fish. If they commit to an attack at close range into your shield (spear shield-poke distance is fine), bait them into doing this more frequently and then turn the tables and tank one of their pokes for a free poise-bs.

As for this strategy needing a dedicated build: an elemental rapier and decent shield is all you need. A 2 weight heater shield and a chaos estoc (which requires only 12 dex) would easily suffice.

Now, if you issue with spears isn't that they are unbeatable, but rather that they force you into a far less diverse playstyle, then that's another story. But the fact of the matter is that you were arguing that they are OP, not that they make pvp boring. And frankly it frustrates me to hear people go on about how some tactics are unbeatable.

This is a counter only for rapier so it isn't a counter for most of the builds.....and frankly just doesn't work if spear user has black flame or combustion up their sleeve (which they usually do) we are talking about a good player with a spear, not some random moron with it, once you trick them into poise BS they are not gonna give it to you again.
Let me rephrase what I said: it's not UNBEATABLE, but it is as close to it as it gets in this game.

RenegadeCop wrote:I agree, there are many, many rules on this, from some viewpoints, I can see why the vast majority of them are in place, but some of them are a bit unnecesarry, IMO. For example, no Hornet Ring. This may prevent overpowered backstabs, but the weaponry that can do that will always do high damage. And what about parrying? People who can time the parry right deserve some extra damage, I don't really see why it was implemented, since people don't always backstab fish.

domesplitter13 wrote:

Just wanted to know if I was in...out, or wait listed. Gracias (it means "thank you" in spanish)

Juutas wrote:Yeah the turtling would be some kind of counter, but it's only a counter to those who have rapier and a shield, we could say that the best counter against spears is to switch to spear yourself and even it out, but I could hardly consider that a counter either because I cannot do it with my own weapon choice.