Skill Imbalance

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    omega Elf
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:12 pm

    Pyro is easily countered with a Black Knight Shield and shield-poking with either
    a rapier or a spear.
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    Slarg232
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:20 pm

    omega Elf wrote:Pyro is easily countered with a Black Knight Shield and shield-poking with either
    a rapier or a spear.

    That would mean someone would have to come equiped specifically to counter pyros, which means you pull out a Lightning Claymore and go to town. The Claymore has just as long range pokes as a spear does, it just can't do them as often.

    Also, it's entirely possible to do a Sorce/Pyro build, so I counter your Black Knight Sheild and rapier/spear with Soul Arrows. The cheap, spammy kind.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by DarkW17 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:20 pm

    omega Elf wrote:I'd personally have no problem going with 31 poise although likewise fast-rollers
    should be nerfed to a maximum of 53. Spears & the Hornet Ring would also need
    to be addressed.


    What about the tiny beings? Are you ignoring me? It needs to really be addressed!!


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:24 pm

    DarkW17 wrote:
    omega Elf wrote:I'd personally have no problem going with 31 poise although likewise fast-rollers
    should be nerfed to a maximum of 53. Spears & the Hornet Ring would also need
    to be addressed.


    What about the tiny beings? Are you ignoring me? It needs to really be addressed!!

    Smoosh em, or if you prefer things in a more black and white light, feed them to your pet.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Juutas on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:43 pm

    Slarg232 wrote:
    omega Elf wrote:I'd personally have no problem going with 31 poise although likewise fast-rollers
    should be nerfed to a maximum of 53. Spears & the Hornet Ring would also need
    to be addressed.

    Why do Spears and the Hornet Ring need to be addressed? Not trying to be confrontational, just wondering.

    I've found Hornet Ring users are easily countered via quick casting spells (Fire Surge, Combustion), as they can't parry them, and if you do it right they can't get at your back, leaving them a terrible, terrible weapon.

    Spears are easily countered with Fireball.

    Not everyone use pyro. It's not a proper counter if not all character types can do it, just saying.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by ICEFANG on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:51 pm

    Actually, you could argue that Pyro is one of the few things that everyone can use. At all 8 stats (which isn't possible, but if you were at that point, the few weapons you could use would be usable by everyone), you still could equip a Seance Ring, and a Pyro hand. Although that wouldn't be an effective build, its still usable by everyone, while me saying, a Halberd is the counter, means not everyone could use it.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Juutas on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:58 pm

    ICEFANG wrote:Actually, you could argue that Pyro is one of the few things that everyone can use. At all 8 stats (which isn't possible, but if you were at that point, the few weapons you could use would be usable by everyone), you still could equip a Seance Ring, and a Pyro hand. Although that wouldn't be an effective build, its still usable by everyone, while me saying, a Halberd is the counter, means not everyone could use it.

    Yeah, but calling a pyro as effective counter is just waaaay too limited. Things like kick would be better qualified as a common counter since it can be used by anyone except the guys with curved swords (that is a tiny amount of players).
    I don't have a real point here, but just saying, because I like...saying things...


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by ICEFANG on Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:22 pm

    Thats ok, I like saying things too haha


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:50 pm

    Juutas wrote:
    ICEFANG wrote:Actually, you could argue that Pyro is one of the few things that everyone can use. At all 8 stats (which isn't possible, but if you were at that point, the few weapons you could use would be usable by everyone), you still could equip a Seance Ring, and a Pyro hand. Although that wouldn't be an effective build, its still usable by everyone, while me saying, a Halberd is the counter, means not everyone could use it.

    Yeah, but calling a pyro as effective counter is just waaaay too limited. Things like kick would be better qualified as a common counter since it can be used by anyone except the guys with curved swords (that is a tiny amount of players).
    I don't have a real point here, but just saying, because I like...saying things...



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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Jansports on Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:26 pm

    I actually like noting that Pyro is a good counter, or that kicks can counter certain things as well, Because it isn't available on every build

    and it shouldn't be. If weapons/armors/rings/spells BUILDS in general didn't have weakness they also wouldn't have strength as everything would be so normalized nothing you "choose" would impact the fight. If buffs were terribly weak, well you chose CMW but it didn't really change anything. If spears weren't obnoxiously long, well you chose winged spear but it's just a re-skinned longsword. ect. The more builds can have weakness the more builds can have strengths, this is what creates diversity. Is it possible for any build to beat a spear or a sorcerer? Probably yes, but some builds would have an easier time, whilst others will struggle. I feel this makes player input about stats/gear more exciting, I really like the PGS for it's buffed damage output low weight and stylish R2, but damn if I don't regret it as soon as I see a spear+shield.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by passivefamiliar on Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:05 am

    NO. Dwgr is not a counter to this. It is a crutch thatthese same people use. Dwgr is the only thing in this game i want removed. It is the most unbalanced item in the game. Wrath of god is fine, abused but counterable. But a ninjaflipping havle the mother lagstabbing son of a rock just isnt right. I love this game. I dont mind losing. But i despise that ring.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Solid_Altair on Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:21 am

    As a noob (finishing my first playthrough and watched some vids) I got the impression that the heavy characters are doomed in high level PvP. If that's correct, then I dislike this. Even if heavy characters are generally easier to use and possibly more effective on low skill levels, I think it should still be effective on high skill levels, as well.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Juutas on Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:33 am

    Solid_Altair wrote:As a noob (finishing my first playthrough and watched some vids) I got the impression that the heavy characters are doomed in high level PvP. If that's correct, then I dislike this. Even if heavy characters are generally easier to use and possibly more effective on low skill levels, I think it should still be effective on high skill levels, as well.

    It's unfortunate that when midrolling or slowrolling you don't have very good odds to win when your opponent is flipping around like monkey in a better armor than you.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:51 am

    The problem is the poise system not flipping which I thought we'd established.
    I'm not one to dwell on an issue as you well know but we can go over this again.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by DarkW17 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:21 am

    Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooo please lol!!


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