Skill Imbalance

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    omega Elf
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    Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:29 pm

    There are particular weapons/techniques, in pvp, which require, very
    little, skill investment, to be, successful with. Whilst, to be successful,
    against them, often requires, an unbalanced (far higher level), of skill.

    examples:
    1. Spears
    2. Back-stabs
    3. Stun-lock

    To effectively (and consistently), counter, these threats, (besides
    obvious skill) you require - high poise, high defense, and high mobility.
    More so - high mobility (the ability, to dodge, and to evade), though
    high poise & high defense, are also, very much required, to perform,
    many counters.

    And therefore, it can be concluded, that to counter, the imbalance,
    brought on, by such threats, a similar "imbalance", is required, hence -
    the dwgr.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:34 pm

    I dunno I beat all those just fine with no poise and no DWGR, maybe its just me. Only lag is what makes Backstabs very dangerous, and I think Stun Lock is totally a great part of the game. Spears require thought to beat, more than they probably require to play, but what are you complaining about? I think DWGR is stupid, but removing it wouldn't be a detriment to one side or the other, probably both sides equally.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by DarkHaven on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:47 pm

    To my liking i love the silver knight spear but it does require some thinking to use like ppl with ninja will give u trouble but if they dont roll towards for BS then u just plow at them u will get hit even the ring is invincible it seems but any bout ranthing on tht yes spears can be ppl tht are jakasses and turtle but truely u dont need to hav poise or agility be cautious and see how tht player uses the spear if he turtle or just goes nuts with offense tht will be ur advantage if he turtles your options would be to w8 him out or cleverly plan your atk rushing with ur shield up for a BS on him. no need to roll or be overly aggressive towards the turtler but if he goes nuts with offense then u could either turtle him or actually hav a normal duel with offense. in my opinion i kep the SKS just incase someone is using a long hammer or BKGA becus my claymore or estoc is clearly out matched by those so i use spear then.


    And for the backstabbers well they just gone out of style they are vry easy to kill with claymore u kno why? Well first u find out they lik to BS becus of there weapon most of the time.... Then u test it ( just try not to get BS in test) but if they lik to then u need 1 simple thing i found out with claymore atk once with 2handed then do the kick pretty much every time works and i stunlock for 3 hits unless they use wep switch glitch bug idk skill watever u wanna call it.

    And stunlock i love it it shud be in here and the lil skill glitch thing to get out of it i love to id say it givs ppl a 2nd chance on some heavily stunlocked weapons and change there play style....

    Have fun just u dont need to complain or suggest or watever u wanted to accomplish with this post all u got to do is figure out how to adapt... but the lag on some BS i just cant help ya there just 1 hour ago this guy was at the tip of my spear 15 feet hit and i hit for 252 dmg but he popped up on my back and killed me idk how its just servers are worse then Demon souls!!!!


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:48 pm

    ICEFANG wrote:I dunno I beat all those just fine with no poise and no DWGR, maybe its just me. Only lag is what makes Backstabs very dangerous, and I think Stun Lock is totally a great part of the game. Spears require thought to beat, more than they probably require to play, but what are you complaining about? I think DWGR is stupid, but removing it wouldn't be a detriment to one side or the other, probably both sides equally.

    With no poise, and poor defense (I assume), how then, do you deal,
    with a reasonably skilled, Dragon Slayer Spear, user, spamming r1 -
    stun-locking you, being evasive, & going for back-stabs?
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:59 pm

    I dunno, I usually just use attacking and blocking, its not really complex, sure on paper it might be unstoppable, but it rarely really works like that. And how does someone spam R1 (who is in danger of parrying), also go for backstabs, that's really different. Its not like they can move and attack at the same time, they do one or the other, if they go for backstabs, I kill them by attacking them, if they turtle, I usually kill them by attacking them. I can't really give you a flowchart, its not Flowchart Souls, its Dark Souls. Why don't I just ask how you lose to them and you can give me a flow chart on that?


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:01 pm

    DarkHaven wrote:To my liking i love the silver knight spear but it does require some thinking to use like ppl with ninja will give u trouble but if they dont roll towards for BS then u just plow at them u will get hit even the ring is invincible it seems but any bout ranthing on tht yes spears can be ppl tht are jakasses and turtle but truely u dont need to hav poise or agility be cautious and see how tht player uses the spear if he turtle or just goes nuts with offense tht will be ur advantage if he turtles your options would be to w8 him out or cleverly plan your atk rushing with ur shield up for a BS on him. no need to roll or be overly aggressive towards the turtler but if he goes nuts with offense then u could either turtle him or actually hav a normal duel with offense. in my opinion i kep the SKS just incase someone is using a long hammer or BKGA becus my claymore or estoc is clearly out matched by those so i use spear then.


    And for the backstabbers well they just gone out of style they are vry easy to kill with claymore u kno why? Well first u find out they lik to BS becus of there weapon most of the time.... Then u test it ( just try not to get BS in test) but if they lik to then u need 1 simple thing i found out with claymore atk once with 2handed then do the kick pretty much every time works and i stunlock for 3 hits unless they use wep switch glitch bug idk skill watever u wanna call it.

    And stunlock i love it it shud be in here and the lil skill glitch thing to get out of it i love to id say it givs ppl a 2nd chance on some heavily stunlocked weapons and change there play style....

    Have fun just u dont need to complain or suggest or watever u wanted to accomplish with this post all u got to do is figure out how to adapt... but the lag on some BS i just cant help ya there just 1 hour ago this guy was at the tip of my spear 15 feet hit and i hit for 252 dmg but he popped up on my back and killed me idk how its just servers are worse then Demon souls!!!!

    The tactics your attempting to counter, your actually employing
    yourself (as the counter). I'm looking, for alternative ways, of
    countering these things. Ways, that perhaps, require, a little
    more, skill investment, but, with that skill, are, actually, more
    effective to employ. The only way, i see to do that, is through
    how I mentioned.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:01 pm

    I agree with you, I sometimes make my builds with 62 poise just to resist 2 spear hits and poise backstab them. I found out that the bow is extremely useful against them, but only if you have the one ring: DWGR.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:04 pm

    ICEFANG wrote:I dunno, I usually just use attacking and blocking, its not really complex, sure on paper it might be unstoppable, but it rarely really works like that. And how does someone spam R1 (who is in danger of parrying), also go for backstabs, that's really different. Its not like they can move and attack at the same time, they do one or the other, if they go for backstabs, I kill them by attacking them, if they turtle, I usually kill them by attacking them. I can't really give you a flowchart, its not Flowchart Souls, its Dark Souls. Why don't I just ask how you lose to them and you can give me a flow chart on that?

    You've proved to me nothing, beyond the fact, you very likely, have
    very little skill.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by ICEFANG on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:12 pm

    Ok I will write out a long description that won't change your mind, or wait, no I won't. Look I saved time! There is no amount of writing that will prove that any one has actual skill in any game, but at least if I come across a problem I work to beat it instead of complain about it for no reason.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Pesth on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:22 pm

    @Omega Elf: Stop pontuating every damm frase! Cmom its hard to read what you write (is really annoying)

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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Juutas on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:22 pm

    I was in trouble today when I countered a tank with Dragon Slayer Spear and Greatshield of Artorias and he just kept turtling.
    I was 0 poise (no armor) and I don't use DWGR so I had some epic trouble with this situation.
    First I tried to parry --> f*cked up, then I tried to circle bs --> poise break, then roll bs --> another poise break and he bsing me instead.
    I got pretty frustrated about this because the player was really bad, but due the conditions I lost like little b*tch.
    Just wanted to share my epic failure.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:25 pm

    ^Exactly, I was pwned like that against a very good SKS player. 2 handing the spear, poke and roll, oh wait let me POKE AND ROLL you again and again. I almost cried.


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by DarkHaven on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:28 pm

    ok well i guess my last post tht i just did didnt go through but here it is again..... Well the only ppl tht been able to kill me are gankers WotG spams and bow users with DWGR... idk how to dodge WotG properly yet :S

    But my best advice is to be patient and c what they do and watch for openings..... If this helps or i may just be employing i am the counter again idk where to go with this xD


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:37 pm

    DarkHaven wrote:ok well i guess my last post tht i just did didnt go through but here it is again..... Well the only ppl tht been able to kill me are gankers WotG spams and bow users with DWGR... idk how to dodge WotG properly yet :S

    But my best advice is to be patient and c what they do and watch for openings..... If this helps or i may just be employing i am the counter again idk where to go with this xD

    Wog spam, would probably be at No.1, on the list, if it wasn't, for how easy,
    it is, to roll through, assuming of course, you have the mobility.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by DarkHaven on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:42 pm

    omega Elf wrote:

    Wog spam, would probably be at No.1, on the list, if it wasn't, for how easy,
    it is, to roll through, assuming of course, you have the mobility.

    Well idk if ur agreeing with me or making fun of me for not being able to dodge WotG today is only my 2nd for pvping on this game T_T!!!!

    O my Build is here :3
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=2170942083548782
    If u wanna c was a PvE build now going into PvP


    Last edited by DarkHaven on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:43 pm

    Pesth wrote:@Omega Elf: Stop pontuating every damm frase! Cmom its hard to read what you write (is really annoying)

    n,o, com,p,rend,e.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:45 pm

    DarkHaven wrote:
    omega Elf wrote:

    Wog spam, would probably be at No.1, on the list, if it wasn't, for how easy,
    it is, to roll through, assuming of course, you have the mobility.

    Well idk if ur agreeing with me or making fun of me for not being able to dodge WotG today is only my 2nd for pvping on this game T_T!!!!

    Ok, maybe it's not that easy, I just thought it was, but I was using the dwgr.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Federally on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:46 pm

    Omega based on your OP I'm apparently extremely skilled because those threats don't bother my medium roll build too much. I must be *** awesome at this game, thanks!


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by DarkHaven on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:49 pm

    Federally wrote:Omega based on your OP I'm apparently extremely skilled because those threats don't bother my medium roll build too much. I must be *** awesome at this game, thanks!


    Oh sweet another medium rolling high five bud big grin o or my build 2nd day in pvp

    Wins now 174 loses 16 2 from hacker 1 from ganker Hate GANKERS.....

    Go go Medium rolls nice in fluffy silly
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by Federally on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:55 pm

    Medium roll is a ton of fun! Joy to you sir


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:57 pm

    Federally wrote:Omega based on your OP I'm apparently extremely skilled because those threats don't bother my medium roll build too much. I must be *** awesome at this game, thanks!

    It's not a complete list, though I guess Med-roll is fine with some weapons.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by DarkHaven on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:04 pm

    omg guys i just dueled this guy with greatshield atoras whatever it is and i saw some tips for pvp is to backstab them xD or my tip w8 them out and i went for BS OMG WAS SO EASY lol! and he sent hate mail =[ saying dont bow if ur just gonna fuk BS me.......... tht made me sad 😢


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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:10 pm

    ICEFANG wrote:Ok I will write out a long description that won't change your mind, or wait, no I won't. Look I saved time! There is no amount of writing that will prove that any one has actual skill in any game, but at least if I come across a problem I work to beat it instead of complain about it for no reason.

    The point was, that to counter many attacks (wog for example),
    would require a disproportionate level of skill, if, it wasn't for, the
    mobility offered, by the dwgr.
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by omega Elf on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:20 pm

    DarkHaven wrote:
    Well idk if ur agreeing with me or making fun of me for not being able to dodge WotG today is only my 2nd for pvping on this game T_T!!!!

    O my Build is here :3
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=2170942083548782
    If u wanna c was a PvE build now going into PvP

    Lol, now I see why you have problems!
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    Re: Skill Imbalance

    Post by DarkHaven on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:27 pm

    omega Elf wrote:
    DarkHaven wrote:
    Well idk if ur agreeing with me or making fun of me for not being able to dodge WotG today is only my 2nd for pvping on this game T_T!!!!

    O my Build is here :3
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=2170942083548782
    If u wanna c was a PvE build now going into PvP

    Lol, now I see why you have problems!


    Whats so bad? my wins are now 184 loses 16 why am i doing something wrong? xD


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