... Dark souls review?

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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:01 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:It doesn't tell a story though, it leaves scraps of diary pages all over the place. Skyrim may have been a bad example but I stand by my point.

    How about heavy rain. Thats my definition of rpg. Its almost sole focus is the story. Now must a game exclude nearly every other potential aspect to be an RPG? Of course not, but if the story isn't the driving force its not an RPG. Its a shooter or a dungeon crawl or puzzle game, with RPG elements, instead of an RPG with shooter elements.

    Now?
    Ahh. See, to me, that's not an RPG. That's a Story Playing Game. But your definition of the genre of Role Playing Game goes against the actual meaning of a Role Playing Game. To play the game in order to play the role. Not to know the story.

    The story was always the secondary part of an RPG. Even with Kingdom Hearts, it's the role of playing your character that made the game. It was the reason I played. There was an overall story that I was interested in, but I knew just getting to the next world wasn't going to get me what I wanted, so why focus on the story? it was the gameplay that got me to play the next time. To pick up the controller. It was the want to play my character that made me pick up my controller. not the story. Though, the story is what made me go back to it after I finished.

    Maybe I'm just weird and my though process is different from everyone else's. Wouldn't be the first time haha!


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:03 am

    LordRevan wrote:
    JoeBroski09 wrote:Anyway, a Role Playing Game, to me, is a game where you play it to play your character. A CoD game doesn't do that. You don't play that game in order to play your character. You have 5 classes to play depending on the map, you play that game to be better than others, to feel better about yourself, yada yada yada.


    I know it's unheard of. But COD has a story mode too you know? It's not just multiplayer lol silly
    EVERYONE knows that's not its main aspect, though. People don't buy the game for the story. They don't buy it to play the RPG side of the game. Because it's a horrible part of the game, and even the storymode is mostly about the actual gameplay of shooting people at each level, not for your character nor for the overall story. Heck, getting along in the story does nothing for your character. You'll have different guns no matter what you do, your character won't be more powerful as you go along, your character doesn't change. You don't play the story for the character, and people don't play the game for the story anyway! haha!


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:04 am

    Then Fifa is an RPG because you're playing the role of the spanish soccer team.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:04 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:It doesn't tell a story though, it leaves scraps of diary pages all over the place. Skyrim may have been a bad example but I stand by my point.

    How about heavy rain. Thats my definition of rpg. Its almost sole focus is the story. Now must a game exclude nearly every other potential aspect to be an RPG? Of course not, but if the story isn't the driving force its not an RPG. Its a shooter or a dungeon crawl or puzzle game, with RPG elements, instead of an RPG with shooter elements.

    Make sense now? Thats how I classify games.

    "After a certain amount of direct storytelling is met, a game's RPG elements begin to overshadow it's gameplay mechanics, thereby classifying it predominately as an RPG."

    Was I close?


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:05 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:
    Reaperfan wrote:Long story short, maybe we should just respect each others' opinions and agree to disagree?
    This is always the best, and wisest course of action.
    Not always. I want to keep going because there's no reason to stop. Really, I like debating, and I have zero emotion in on this. Why would we need stop because we respect each others' opinion? We already do. We did before we even started.

    I agree, I just don't want anyone to say something that can be misconstrued or for someone to take a totally innocuous post as some sort of a slight/insult.

    I think we're fine now, but you just never know...

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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:05 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Then Fifa is an RPG because you're playing the role of the spanish soccer team.

    Kinda what I said, but Joe disagreed.

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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:06 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Then Fifa is an RPG because you're playing the role of the spanish soccer team.
    Ahh, but the game isn't about the role of playing the team. The game is about playing soccer. It's about directing the players. it's not about making each player better, increasing how well the players are. There are not stats, there are very few ways to make your team better, and that's by changing your team, thus is against what I say an RPG is. It's a game where its main point for people to play it is to play their character, work on their character, and change it to make it their own. You cannot really do this in FIFA, as that is a very small aspect of the game.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:07 am

    Reaperfan wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:It doesn't tell a story though, it leaves scraps of diary pages all over the place. Skyrim may have been a bad example but I stand by my point.

    How about heavy rain. Thats my definition of rpg. Its almost sole focus is the story. Now must a game exclude nearly every other potential aspect to be an RPG? Of course not, but if the story isn't the driving force its not an RPG. Its a shooter or a dungeon crawl or puzzle game, with RPG elements, instead of an RPG with shooter elements.

    Make sense now? Thats how I classify games.

    "After a certain amount of direct storytelling is met, a game's RPG elements begin to overshadow it's gameplay mechanics, thereby classifying it predominately as an RPG."

    Was I close?
    Exactly. Its not the definition of the term RPG, because RPG is to open ended a term, thats how I define the genre.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:09 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:Then Fifa is an RPG because you're playing the role of the spanish soccer team.
    Ahh, but the game isn't about the role of playing the team. The game is about playing soccer. It's about directing the players. it's not about making each player better, increasing how well the players are. There are not stats, there are very few ways to make your team better, and that's by changing your team, thus is against what I say an RPG is. It's a game where its main point for people to play it is to play their character, work on their character, and change it to make it their own. You cannot really do this in FIFA, as that is a very small aspect of the game.
    But you are playing the role of the soccer team? And it is a game? And its played? Role playing game, by your definition.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:10 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:Then Fifa is an RPG because you're playing the role of the spanish soccer team.
    Ahh, but the game isn't about the role of playing the team. The game is about playing soccer. It's about directing the players. it's not about making each player better, increasing how well the players are. There are not stats, there are very few ways to make your team better, and that's by changing your team, thus is against what I say an RPG is. It's a game where its main point for people to play it is to play their character, work on their character, and change it to make it their own. You cannot really do this in FIFA, as that is a very small aspect of the game.

    for the love of god call it football, especially when talking about countries who do call it football :no:

    also, forum, go on wikipedia and search "Fantasy games", it comes up with RPG. It's just the name that's been given to the fantasy genre in videogame format.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:12 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Thats how I classify games.
    By the way, if you type good music into youtube the first response is canye west.


    Last edited by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:14 am

    That is not how I defined a Role Playing Game. GAH! Maybe I need to explain it again but not ramble.

    I'll use reaper's wording.

    A role playing game is a game where the gameplay aspects IS playing a role.

    You do not take the role of the soccer players, because you direct them, not take the role of them. You may "direct" your dark souls character, but overall, you are playing the role of the characer that your toon is. The Chosen One. There does need to be some kind of story aspect, because there has to be some kind of setting a role is set into, but it's the role itself that makes it an RPG. Not the story. Nor is FIFA an RPG because it's about the gameplay aspects of directing each individual players while you direct the entire team. It is not about the players, as it is how you play them.

    As in, in Dark Souls, you can't be a mage without a mage player. it's about the player. It's about the role you're playing. Even if you choose a defensive team in FIFA, you can play offensive. But you can't transform and build your team in order to play Baseball in FIFA. You get what I mean?


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:18 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:Thats how I classify games.
    By the way, if you type good music into youtube the first response is canye west.

    Yes, but quite obviously, in the same way Fantasy games = RPGs, Kanye West's recordings= music.. I don't get your point, you kinda just stated what I said in a different aspect.

    Also, you're still calling it soccer :x


    Last edited by Serious_Much on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:20 am

    Youtube puts popularity over accuracy a million times over..


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by LordRevan on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:22 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:As in, in Dark Souls, you can't be a mage without a mage player. it's about the player. It's about the role you're playing. Even if you choose a defensive team in FIFA, you can play offensive. But you can't transform and build your team in order to play Baseball in FIFA. You get what I mean?

    :suspect:

    Well I don't get what you mean. Just to continue with the explanation that I don't understand but in reverse...

    So:
    Even if you choose a defensive team in FIFA, you can play offensive. But you can't transform and build your team in order to play Baseball in FIFA.

    So:
    In dark souls as a Melee charatcer you can still mage and vice versa. But you cannot become a Jedi(Unfortunately)


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:22 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:Youtube puts popularity over accuracy a million times over..

    Yeah, but "good" is a rather subjective term, but lets put the philosophical debate to one side.. Though apparently a good gig live when my mate saw him the other day. silly


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:25 am

    LordRevan wrote:
    JoeBroski09 wrote:As in, in Dark Souls, you can't be a mage without a mage player. it's about the player. It's about the role you're playing. Even if you choose a defensive team in FIFA, you can play offensive. But you can't transform and build your team in order to play Baseball in FIFA. You get what I mean?

    :suspect:

    Well I don't get what you mean. Just to continue with the explanation that I don't understand but in reverse...

    So:
    Even if you choose a defensive team in FIFA, you can play offensive. But you can't transform and build your team in order to play Baseball in FIFA.

    So:
    In dark souls as a Melee charatcer you can still mage and vice versa. But you cannot become a Jedi(Unfortunately)
    Hahaha! Baseball is still a sport like Football is (Happy, serious?). Using magic is a fighting style just like using melee. But you can't use magic unless you build your character to do so. But you CAN do so because it's an RPG. You cannot build your team in order to play the sport they want them to play. You can BARELY change your team, but it also barely changes the way you play the game, if it changes the way you play at ALL.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:25 am

    Then the role you play is a spooky mind affecting football genie. Its still a roll. Many game have stats, many just hide them.

    I see what you mean joe but thats not an RPG, thats a Microsoft excell spread sheet.



    My point was that the internet is frequently unreliable, canye west sucks. Fantasy doesn't mean RPG, the two are separate. In the same way, canye west isn't good music, the two are separate. Even if the possibly of the two things overlapping is present or even frequent, they are still separate.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by LordRevan on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:29 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:Using magic is a fighting style just like using melee. But you can't use magic unless you build your character to do so.

    Pyromancy silly


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:29 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote: You can BARELY change your team, but it also barely changes the way you play the game, if it changes the way you play at ALL.

    Noone on here really plays much fifa do they..? :|

    Forum the point is not whether kanye west is good or not (obviously he's ****), but whether it is music.. it is. In the same way fantasy games are almost always classified as RPGs.

    Guess what is called a fantasy by numerous sources, but classified in genre as an RPG? I'll give you one guess...

    Yup, you got it; Dark Souls.

    It's written on the back of the goddam box people, come on! silly


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:32 am

    And modern Pop (here anyways) is simply electronica. Being classified as something doesn't make the classification true.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:33 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Then the role you play is a spooky mind affecting football genie. Its still a roll. Many game have stats, many just hide them.

    I see what you mean joe but thats not an RPG, thats a Microsoft excell spread sheet.



    My point was that the internet is frequently unreliable, canye west sucks. Fantasy doesn't mean RPG, the two are separate. In the same way, canye west isn't good music, the two are separate. Even if the possibly of the two things overlapping is present or even frequent, they are still separate.
    For someone who preaches about being subjective, you sure aren't. hahaha!

    You know exactly what I mean by stats. The ones you can change in order to edit your character. There's very little in what you can do in order to customize your team in FIFA. There is a crazy amount of ways you can customize your character in Kingdom Hearts, and NOT in Heavy Rain. Heavy Rain is NOT an RPG. It's the CHARACTER that's important in an RPG.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:36 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:And modern Pop (here anyways) is simply electronica. Being classified as something doesn't make the classification true.
    The definition of a word is created by the society. If they change the definition, roll with it. It's changed. Modern Pop is Modern Pop. It can also be described as Electronica. The society has defined it that way, and because of that, the language is changed. The language ebbs and flows with the culture, and when the culture changes, so does the language. Role Playing Game HAS to be defined by the culture and the society influences that, NOT you. Your specific viewpoint is one of many, and when it comes to talking about language, talking about how society is wrong is simply saying that right is wrong, because, by what I've just explained here, society is right.

    Right now, we're talking about our own viewpoints. Don't talk about how others' are wrong.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:37 am

    I'm just arguing because I enjoy it.


    That logic would make most of the final fantasy genre not RPG, because there is little to customize. Need for speed underground is an RPG by that logic.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:40 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I'm just arguing because I enjoy it.


    That logic would make most of the final fantasy genre not RPG, because there is little to customize. Need for speed underground is an RPG by that logic.
    There's a LOT to customize in Final Fantasy. A BIG amount. I actually screwed up my characters in that game BECAUSE I customized incorrectly.

    And, like i said, even if there is customization, it BARELY changes how you play the game, if any. that was my main point. Even though you can customize the crap out of your car in NFS, it doesn't change how you drift, how you speed up, how you win. You win by how you play it yourself, and you'll play it how you play it with any car you have.


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