... Dark souls review?

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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:42 am

    You are refusing the truth because in order for language to function as an effective means of communication we all need to agree on what words mean. Dark Souls fits solidly under the definition of Rpg thus it is an Rpg. You saying its not is like you calling denying yellow is a color simply because you only accept reds and blues as colors.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:45 am

    Though, what if blue and red appear differently to him? While I agree Fed, you need to take into consideration the concept of perception and personal reality haha.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:48 am

    Language doesn't function as an effective means of communication or you'd understand what I mean.

    It fits in your definition of RPG, not mine. I am, as is everyone else, free to define things as they fit.
    I make my view known in the hope that others will adopt my view and so prevent misunderstandings like this one. Turning the society whos views I hate so much to my view using the system I wish didn't excist.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:49 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    It is outside my definition of RPG, so I will not call it one and argue my points if the opportunity arises to do so im a reasonably civilised manner. Thats not refusing the truth.

    but the term RPG isnt yours to own or do with as you please is it, nomenclature exists to create a sense of order and understanding. As you said earlier, there arent enough hours in the day to understand every movie or game you play, by that same reasoning, without a universal structure in place how would you suggest we differentiate between genres without descending into time consuming, overlong and confusing waffle?


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:52 am

    More specific lables. Not much more specific even, just sub divide things a few times. A vendiagram maybe?

    EDIT: Also, it is mine to do with as I wish. You have the same right. Words are meaningless alone, for exactly that reason. Everyone is free to do whatever they want with them, so they posess only the meaning an individual assigns. I have assigned my meaning. You are free to use your own or someone elses


    Last edited by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:57 am; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:54 am

    jrpg, mmorpg etc?


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:56 am

    More specific in this instance, but thats the concept.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:01 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:

    EDIT: Also, it is mine to do with as I wish. You have the same right. Words are meaningless alone, for exactly that reason. Everyone is free to do whatever they want with them, so they posess only the meaning an individual assigns. I have assigned my meaning. You are free to use your own or someone elses

    by that reasoning youre also free to start referring to dogs as cats, or red as blue, surely you can see how ridiculous that is. I appreciate that you are free to do as you wish and change or alter these foundations to suit your own personal taste, but you must also see how difficult it would be for you to be understood by the rest of the planet?

    Just because a dog is born in a stable, it doesnt make it a horse does it!!


    Last edited by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:02 am

    Well I have a smallish dog that I'm deciding doesn't fit my definition of a dog so I'm gonna call it a cat and just assume this won't cause any confusion when she runs away and I post 'lost cat' signs all over the neighborhood.

    Edit: ninja'd on the dog and cat analogy!


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:07 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:More specific in this instance, but thats the concept.

    so youre not actually arguing that Dark Souls isnt an RPG, what youve just said is that it IS an RPG, it just requires an extension to the term RPG to further define the games unique content.

    which is what i said earlier when i said:

    I completely agree that RPG is simply too vague to accurately describe the wealth of choice on offer, so to further define game styles over the years, the terms 'action-rpg', JRPG, MMORPG and so on, were created to clarify an otherwise nondescript term. This is entirely logical, just as a whale, horse or shrew are extremely different on the exterior they are still mammals at their core, just as a jrpg, or action rpg is STILL an RPG at heart, its simply a variation of that core mechanic that requires further definition.

    So, just because Dark Souls' method of storytelling strays slightly from the traditional 'RPG' model that you are familiar with, one in which the story is presented to you in an obvious fashion, you cannot deny that it falls beneath the RPG umbrella term, I would say however that it is distinctly different enough to warrant a more precise definition.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:08 am

    Federally wrote:

    Edit: ninja'd on the dog and cat analogy!

    only by a second or two im sure fella!!!! big grin


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:12 am

    You are indeed free to do so. It would make others understanding you hard, but how is it any different than the first time someone refered to homosexuality as ***? How is it different than the shift from cream soda shifting to mean not ice cream in soda, but a specific variety of vanilla flavored soda?

    I aslso didn't say DKS was an RPG, merely said thet I believe the term it deserves is more specific than jrpg or mmorpg.


    Last edited by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:13 am

    Tolvo wrote:Though, what if blue and red appear differently to him? While I agree Fed, you need to take into consideration the concept of perception and personal reality haha.

    Oh and perception has no relevance. You can see colors differently but you can't decide a color isn't a color. Which is my point, you can dislike DkS or some parts of it, or decide it doesnt provide what you want or expect out of an Rpg, but you can't turn around and say it isn't an Rpg. When someone says 'red' I think fire truck red, but I won't argue with you about whether or not cherry red is indeed red, its just not what I think of when someone says red.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:15 am

    I was referring more to the idea that while we call things red, what we see could actually vary from person to person. As well one should consider those who are color blind. Trying to explain to them why your red is the right red, that's not exactly an easy thing to do. Especially explaining to them the concept of red, if red isn't red to them.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:17 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:You are indeed free to do so. It would make others understanding you hard, but how is it any different than the first time someone refered to homosexuality as ***? How is it different than the shift from cream soda shifting to mean not ice cream in soda, but a specific variety of vanilla flavored soda?

    Wait a second, you mean cream soda used to be ice cream in soda?!

    Also I believe *** is an older term then homosexual, but that really has no bearing on your point lol.

    Forum I wish for you to go to a table top Dungeons and Dragons game and tell them they aren't playing an Rpg because they are creating a story as opposed to being told one.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:21 am

    Doesn't matter which came first, to my knowledge *** ment happy long before homosexual so my point stands.

    I also specifically stated I'm only refering to video games somewhere. Apples and oranges on that subject.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:21 am

    Tolvo wrote:I was referring more to the idea that while we call things red, what we see could actually vary from person to person. As well one should consider those who are color blind. Trying to explain to them why your red is the right red, that's not exactly an easy thing to do. Especially explaining to them the concept of red, if red isn't red to them.

    Yes that's true. But we aren't discussing what kind of Rpg DkS is but whether or not it is one. So back to the colors analogy, instead of deciding what shade of red it is or where in the color wheel it fits Forum is saying its not a color at all. Not that he percieves it as a different shade or can't see the color at all. Perception is no linger relevance because he is changing the definition of a word to exclude those he doesn't like.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:22 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Doesn't matter which came first, to my knowledge *** ment happy long before homosexual so my point stands.

    I also specifically stated I'm only refering to video games somewhere. Apples and oranges on that subject.

    Lol I tried to express my statement was irrelevant, I just made it for an unknown reason lol


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:22 am

    Alright, I gotcha now Fed.
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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:28 am

    Not changing. Was determined a long time ago. Continuing to use the definition.

    Color blind people don't see red, so its not red to them. I don't see it as an RPG. Its like uv light. Even if you use a special camera to see it, it distorts those around it dissalowing direct comparison. Same here. I don't see it as an RPG, so I cannot judge it properly as an RPG.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:29 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Not changing. Was determined a long time ago. Continuing to use the definition.

    Color blind people don't see red, so its not red to them. I don't see it as an RPG. Its like uv light. Even if you use a special camera to see it, it distorts those around it dissalowing direct comparison. Same here. I don't see it as an RPG, so I cannot judge it properly as an RPG.

    Instead of agreeing to disagree I'll agree you should agree with me silly


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:32 am

    Ditto. Right, anime then sleep. Gotta be up before noon.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:35 am

    Which anime?


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:27 am

    Eureka 7 and samurai shamploo atm.


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    Re: ... Dark souls review?

    Post by Federally on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:30 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:Eureka 7 and samurai shamploo atm.

    Eureka 7 doesn't fit my definition of anime, I consider it a cartoon silly

    Samurai Shamploo was good, I enjoyed it.


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