The Search for Lore

do you think that u could do more research on the time disorded thing

I always thought that the Four Kings may be the Four Knights of Gwyn. Now that you mention that only one of the four has the Soul Shard, I think the perfect candidate that should handle the Shard would be Artorias. Thanks for post Acidic_Cook.

Thank you for clarifying everything!

We need more people help in the exploration of the Tomb of Giants, I'm sure there is something hidden in there we haven't found yet.

Acidic_Cook wrote:Yes.... This Clarifies Everything. Everything!

Don't you see? Their is a reason why Lloyd is the Uncle to Gwyn. He is not Uncle by Blood. It is by Marriage. Why do you think Rhea was sent to obtain the Rite of Kindling? What was her purpose in Lordran? Others could have done the Job, but he sent Her. The Way of White was not here to destroy Death, they were their to Obtain the Treasures. The Paladin Leeroy did not go to seek for the defeat of Nito. He might have been sent their to prevent the thieves of the Occult from stealing the Dark Ember. As the Kirekeeper was bound to gwyn, Lloyd was seeking for the third lighting, so that everything can be right again!

The pendant is close, the secrets are almost obtained! I can feel it, I can. This clarifies Everything of Dark Souls. Everything. This is the greatest achievement ever made in the Game to be found, ever. We are close, my friends. We are very, very close.

Interesting theory, I never though it that way, it would make sense.

I like the part when you say that Gwyn and the Witch go to war, that explains the descriptions of the black knight weapons. I always thought that the maiden with the baby statues were something to do with Gwyn, as the statue of Gwynevere has almost the same clothes of the maiden statues. I really dont understand why the God of War wanted to kill his mother. Is the mother the bearer of the Dark Soul, as she was a firekeeper and needed those Humanities? Did he killed her to take the Dark Soul? It makes sense that he lost he deific status, and also why he didnt fight with the Dragons, as he was no longer the God of War, but just a Pygmy. The part that doesnt make sense is that the intro says that the pygmy found the Dark Soul before the flame start to fade away. Please help me Acidic_Cook.

Unless... The Pygmy then is the Firekeeper????? The God of War kills her, steals the Dark Soul, lose his deific status and escapes. He waits for the flames to fade away...

What if... The firekeeper died as she was giving birth to the god of war? And that is why the spikes of the statues come from her woom. And after she died she passed the dark sign onto her child, the firekeeper scar so he could regain her humanity...
Does it make sense?
And Gwyn, maybe due the death of the firekeeper, sees the child with hatred and vanish all records of his existance. Thus becoming The Furtive Pigmy...
Just an idea though.

Try now start as thief, pedant, acquire sunlight blade and great lightning spears and go to the places Acidic mentioned to see if something happens

Im still thinking that the Furtive Pygmy is the Firekeeper. She discovers the Dark Soul, use it to feed the First Flame, thats why she doesnt go to war. After the Dragons are defeated, the age of Fire begins, the Firekeeper keeps feeding Humanity to the First Flame. Then the God of War meets Kaathe, kills his mother and steals the Dark Soul. Lord Gwyn gets mad and banishes his son's deific status. Then he goes to the First Flame to try to keep the Flame lit, but without the power of the Dark Soul, the Flame just fades away....

It also makes sense that the God of War being the Furtive Pygmy as maybe he used the power of the Dark Soul to lead the Humans to fight the Dragons (after all he is a god of war). When he lost the deific status, he was erased from history, thats why the intro doesnt say anything about the Furtive Pygmy fighting the Dragons. But then, why did he do to lose his godly status?????

Yes it make very sense that the God of War wants another war. He says "Well lets kill my mother, maybe another war would begin and I'll rejoice" He didnt think that Lord Gwyn would take away his godly status as punishment. The God of War couldnt participate in the Second War of the Black Knights vs the Chaos Demons.

I am inclined to believe that the Furtive Pygmy was the mother (progenitor) in the statue and we as humans are the child. We are the brothers and sisters of the God of War. Our kind was stripped of deific status which is evidenced by being locked out of Anor Londo, the Land of the Gods. I just get the feeling it is a redemptive tale with the current Firekeepers who are essentially the pygmy. Their souls gnaw on infinite humanity, what else could be infinite humanity other than the Dark Soul itself. Even the write up of "Lives to protect the flame and dies to protect it further". If that's not an archetype for mother, I don't know what is.

So for brevity here's my thoughts:

1. Gwyn and the Pygmy each find an opposite soul, which attract one another to form a complete dualistic yin/yan
2. Their progeny is a new race led by the God of War, born of opposites and experiences friction between those opposites. Friction creates restlessness which brings dissent and challenge to the current order.
3. Ultimate act of rebellion against any status quo is to attempt to destroy the symbol and source of that order, in this case the flame.
4. Said act curses the God of War and kin, causing the schism inside the soul of every human amd results in banishment from Anor Londo.
5. The banished race start anew in Lordran led by the God of War. They attempt to recreate Anor Londo and fail miserably with no flame. They are forced to flood the new city.
6. The mark of the curse takes its toll and over time people come to resent the God of War who led them astray, and destroy his shrines. A small group of people continue to worship the sun but have altered the pendants that used to honor him into Sunlight Pendants in a history rewrite. The old cultists who remember still carry the original pendants in his honor. They swear to honor the God of War and protect his image. Sometimes when slain in defense of him, they drop these pendants.

See where I am going here?

I think Artorias Abysswalker is the God of War, rebel son of Gwyn and the Pygmy, and we are picking up our brother's mantle to either finish his task of destroying the flame or redeem humankind by undoing the damage he did by cleansing New Londo of the horrors and linking the flame.

Rhea and the pendant have a pretty big role and Acidic is on to something with her linking the fire. Because of her affinity for the mother she represents another side to the tale where we can say Artorias being a knight, held affinity for the father.

Obviously the big question is what?

I like all this theory about Reah's Quest. I like the idea of her having the task to light the flame and become a firekeeper herself due her being filled with humanity.

It seems that she failed on her quest due Petrus killing her or because getting caught by Seath's workers and becoming hollow.

I would't like to think that now matter what you do or how you interact with the world won't stop Reah from failling.

Emergence wrote:Rhea and the pendant have a pretty big role and Acidic is on to something with her linking the fire. Because of her affinity for the mother she represents another side to the tale where we can say Artorias being a knight, held affinity for the father.

Obviously the big question is what?

This has always puzzled me: If you kill Reah in Firelink she will say "Father..." as her last words. Is she talking about her actual father, or is she addressing Allfather Lloyd? Does this tie in with Petrus saying that "You rescued M'lady? Well, a pity that is, for it will amount to nothing. For the little madam is not worth her salt without her family name. Keh heh heh heh…"? Was she searching for her father, and did Petrus or perhaps Lautrec kill him? Or was Petrus 'hired' to kill her by her father? Petrus either says her father's dead, or that he made him kill her (at least that 's how I interpret him). Lautrec says he killed a fleeing old man in robes. Lautrec also uses 'Nubile' to describe her, which should imply that she was about to get married.

Um...I think everything here is very interesting, but does anyone else have trouble understand what Acidic's point is? No offense intended, it's just like trying to read a symbolic, old, roundabout book like The Scarlet Letter or something. I may just be fuzzy mentally right now though, I'm pretty sick.

The game is very cryptic, as such the information gained from it will most likely be. It's a puzzle being pieced together with figures that can fit in many places, and some that fit into none. I can't really say if there will ever be a clear picture.

Well that kind of sucks. I guess if I want to try and figure out what Acidic is saying, I should just wait until midday on the weekend, as that's the only time when I truly feel like I'm not in a fog. Ok, people, back to getting lore, (lol i'm such a hypocrite) sorry for getting off topic.

Ok, random idea: In NG, get the rite of kindling, get Lautrec and Solaire available for summoning, get Rhea to the altar (if possible keep the knight guy that guards the fire keeper soul alive to see what happens), then bring Lautrec and Solaire to Rhea. Alternatively, if that doesn't do anything, aggro Rhea and see if she'll follow you to the bell gargoyles fight.

*Edit* If this post is filled with glaring physical impossibilities then just ignore it, I just had an idea and started rambling. I'm exhausted and like I said earlier, pretty sick. I'm also pretty sure something like this has been tried before. Now that I actually think about it, this entire post was completely pointless for multiple reasons.

Acidic_Cook wrote:Lol, you just repeated what I said in page 10 on this thread, brony.

Damn it. I knew, as soon as I posted, that would happen. Now I need to find/think of some decent information to make myself look like less of an idiot.

Acidic_Cook wrote:My head! My head popped!

Got idea. You don't need to kill gargoyles to get Rhea in the Church, just have to venture in Depths.

Their are two phantoms you can summon in the Church: Solaire and Lautrec.

See what you can do with that.

I'll try that tonight. Is there anything special you want me to try? I mean something specific?

ublug wrote:

Emergence wrote:Rhea and the pendant have a pretty big role and Acidic is on to something with her linking the fire. Because of her affinity for the mother she represents another side to the tale where we can say Artorias being a knight, held affinity for the father.

Obviously the big question is what?

This has always puzzled me: If you kill Reah in Firelink she will say "Father..." as her last words. Is she talking about her actual father, or is she addressing Allfather Lloyd? Does this tie in with Petrus saying that "You rescued M'lady? Well, a pity that is, for it will amount to nothing. For the little madam is not worth her salt without her family name. Keh heh heh heh…"? Was she searching for her father, and did Petrus or perhaps Lautrec kill him? Or was Petrus 'hired' to kill her by her father? Petrus either says her father's dead, or that he made him kill her (at least that 's how I interpret him). Lautrec says he killed a fleeing old man in robes. Lautrec also uses 'Nubile' to describe her, which should imply that she was about to get married.

Yup, you are thinking my thoughts ublug. There are very strong familial/paternal/nurturing archetypes at play here. Everytime I pull back to see the forest from the trees, I keep seeing these repeating themes of husband/wife mother/child father/child. When I look at all through the lens of Jungian symbols, I keep thinking about the relationship between family symbols and religious or spiritual symbols. I think at the heart of this game is a tale of family drama with the usual suspects.

With Rhea we know Petrus and his lot duped her. The thing that sticks out to me is Petrus' quote of "I am a wolf in sheep's clothing". Way of white are placed here as the symbolic religious sheep. So the wolf's symbolic origin i think is the Forest Covenant for obvious reasons. Wolf Ring of Artorias, his grey wolf Sif. I think Petrus is a member of the forest covenant (it's likely his covenant pendant on Rhea's body) who infiltrated the Way of White to impede their attempts to undo all the evil Artorias did.

Does matter if Artorias turned to evil, his sword is still badass

Emergence wrote:I am inclined to believe that the Furtive Pygmy was the mother (progenitor) in the statue and we as humans are the child. We are the brothers and sisters of the God of War. Our kind was stripped of deific status which is evidenced by being locked out of Anor Londo, the Land of the Gods. I just get the feeling it is a redemptive tale with the current Firekeepers who are essentially the pygmy. Their souls gnaw on infinite humanity, what else could be infinite humanity other than the Dark Soul itself. Even the write up of "Lives to protect the flame and dies to protect it further". If that's not an archetype for mother, I don't know what is.

So for brevity here's my thoughts:

1. Gwyn and the Pygmy each find an opposite soul, which attract one another to form a complete dualistic yin/yan
2. Their progeny is a new race led by the God of War, born of opposites and experiences friction between those opposites. Friction creates restlessness which brings dissent and challenge to the current order.
3. Ultimate act of rebellion against any status quo is to attempt to destroy the symbol and source of that order, in this case the flame.
4. Said act curses the God of War and kin, causing the schism inside the soul of every human amd results in banishment from Anor Londo.
5. The banished race start anew in Lordran led by the God of War. They attempt to recreate Anor Londo and fail miserably with no flame. They are forced to flood the new city.
6. The mark of the curse takes its toll and over time people come to resent the God of War who led them astray, and destroy his shrines. A small group of people continue to worship the sun but have altered the pendants that used to honor him into Sunlight Pendants in a history rewrite. The old cultists who remember still carry the original pendants in his honor. They swear to honor the God of War and protect his image. Sometimes when slain in defense of him, they drop these pendants.

See where I am going here?

I think Artorias Abysswalker is the God of War, rebel son of Gwyn and the Pygmy, and we are picking up our brother's mantle to either finish his task of destroying the flame or redeem humankind by undoing the damage he did by cleansing New Londo of the horrors and linking the flame.

Rhea and the pendant have a pretty big role and Acidic is on to something with her linking the fire. Because of her affinity for the mother she represents another side to the tale where we can say Artorias being a knight, held affinity for the father.

Obviously the big question is what?

I once thought that Artorias could be the God of War, the I saw the sunlight altar statue holding the Dragonslayer spear. But It makes sense how the God of War was banished from Anor London and then founded New Londo. But then, if the God of War was one of the knights/kings why did Gwyn gave a shard of his Lord Soul??? Maybe Gwyn didnt know one of his four Knights was his firstborn, as the God of War was no longer a God, but a Man. I think that you are correct when you say that as the banishment of the God of War, the Dark Sign appears as a curse. Maybe that was the punishment Lord Gwyn did to his son. The Firekeeper Scar, forever reminded him that he killed his mother. He fight the Darkwraiths, only to meet Kaathe to know the Truth, and uses his power of the Dark Soul to command the Darkwraiths, New Londo is sacrificed. All the loose ensd are being tied. This is so interesting.

I think I may have placed New Londo incorrectly because of questions like that but I am trying to place him in his proper context. Rather than having founded New Londo, I think this is where his temptation and fall occured, which would predate the banishment. With the statue I was having a hard time ignoring the commonalities of the Sunlight medal and pendant, so the spear is odd because that is Ornstein's weapon. Artorias is obviously important and his connection to the pendant and Forest covenant is also pretty vital. The only thing I feel 100% certain on at this point is Petrus being a member of the forest covenant, with a covenant born mission to stop Rhea.