The Search for Lore

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    The Search for Lore

    Post by User on Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:40 am

    Forgotten.


    Last edited by Emergence on Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:36 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Taking out the trash.)
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Carphil on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:22 am

    Thanks acidic, I tried to copy your posts yesterday But I could not as the internet I am using here is a piece of crap. Anyway, you did great moving all to here, I did not had time to read it all but I will, excellent work


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by drago1uk2000 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:37 am

    So basically you looked at the game and have made up your own story because there is nowhere that calls Jeremiah "Salaman" and the fact that he's just a throwback to Demon's Souls boss Old Monk. Nice.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by drago1uk2000 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:37 pm

    Salaman is Laurentius' teacher who is a "withering old frog" who he "still imagines resides in the great swamp" So yes I do know who he is.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by drago1uk2000 on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:46 am

    When she says consumed by the flame shes talking about her mother and the other witches (probably Ceaseless too) as each of them were consumed when the flame of chaos was made. Whats your explaination for Ceaseless then? Looking at the orange charred ring it suggests that "he" was consumed by the flame too yet the body on the altar is that of a woman. There are also 7 witches with the witch of Izalith yet you only see 5. There are a lot of discrepancies that you just can't make up for and alot of unexplainable things, I know what you're trying to do but if someone looks at this they'll probably take your speculations and assume they're all true.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by jjshowal on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:01 pm

    Acidic_Cook is not expecting everyone to think this is the total truth. He is merely utilizing the facts that are presented throughout the story's quest and speculating on the missing pieces thus turning into a highly entertaining and thought provoking read. I admire people that take the time to investigate the intricacies of lore such as this and then produce their own theories. Whereas I despise people who seek out minor details and immediately dismiss an entire theory.


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by sunbro on Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:59 am

    this is also something that's keeps bothering me the coins
    same as the pendant only get a few during per playthrough

    when you read the coin discriptions you can conclude the following

    gold
    Allfather Lloyd and his white halo shown on its face refers to House of Thorolund
    Land
    of believers governed by the House of Thorolund, known for its stalwart
    clerics. Followers of Allfather Lloyd, with his white halo, and members
    of the Way of White
    Rhea sidequest ???

    silver
    with the portrait of the legendary Knight King Rendal
    Refers to the Balders Knights
    Rendal tried to reach Anor Londo but failed in Sen's Fortress
    there is a dead end in Sen's Fortress guarded by a balder knight ???

    copper
    Old man McLoyf, God of medicine and drink?
    Refers to The land of Catarina, known for their cheirful inhabitants,
    festivity and drink
    Siegmeyer sidequest ???

    So what do you think I dont think that the use of coins is limited to a few souls
    Because the amount of souls is rather ridicules you get from Framt by feeding them and they are rare items with no obvious use


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by menianoon on Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:47 am

    Wait, I thought the guy with Ricard's Rapier was Ricard himself:

    "Prince Ricard was born into royalty, but wandered the lands in a fateful ill-conceived journey. It is told that he became Undead and disappeared up North, where he now guards a lone tower in Sen's Fortress. Judging from his Elite Knight armor, one can assume he was of Astoran royalty. He wields his unique rapier, a bow, and the buckler shield."

    That's from the Wiki, and it would make a bit more sense since the knight is wearing the Elite Knight Armor of Astora, and Rendall was the King of Balder. It would make sense that Rendall would be in Sen's Fortress, since that's where he got absolutely rocked by the things inside, but I think the lack of his presence is sort of a testimony that even a great warrior-king was just another body on the pile of those that had failed.

    Now if I misread what you meant, I totally apologize, just adding my two coppers.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by sunbro on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:08 am

    I also niticed that the balder knight with hte crossbow has a difference in armor
    As the normal balders have red the archer has green


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by menianoon on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:51 pm

    Of course, I was just pointing out some things for consideration's sake, like you said, its an interesting theory (and I think going toe to toe with Rendal would be pretty awesome).
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by sunbro on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:30 am

    question
    Is it possible to get where the boulder dropping giant is( the one feeding the machine)
    when you look around you'll see a big staircase behind him with no obvious way to get there
    I think there is more in to do iin Sen's fortress


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by User on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:03 pm

    Forgotten


    Last edited by Acidic_Cook on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:18 pm

    has anyone noticed that the women for the intro is the fire keeper at the firelink??


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:23 pm

    I wounder if maybe she was your wife or something and thats why she doesnt talk because she doesnt belive that you are alive very interesting indeed and I think you play as the same charter from demon souls


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:31 pm

    Im sorry if im getting confusing just seeing if any one has answers


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:46 pm

    well its just for cinamtic proposes they want you to play as a knight but I dont have facts just assumptions so dont listen to my mad ranting


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by nsane32 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:07 pm

    o no not at all just asking questions do not mean to troll or ofend


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by nsane32 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:10 pm

    Very good questions I never gave the winged demons much thought untill now
    and the serpents maby they are sinner or created by seath since all the lord where friends I guess you could say in the begining so he could have made them to protect him self and the entrance to Anor Londo(Sens fortress) hinting the name


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by menianoon on Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:13 pm

    Definitely a good series of questions.

    As for the Dragon legs in Lost Izalith, here's how I always viewed things (feel free to interpret and comment).

    To me, they were reanimated when the Bed of Chaos was created. Now the story dictates that the Witch of Izalith, and all the other Lords and their followers were fighting the Everlasting Dragons yes, but other than a few Drakes, Seath, and the Helkite Drake(Dragon?), which are all either feral forms of dragons, or lesser evolved forms with the exception of Seath. We never really see a full on, full powered dragon in regards to how Dark Souls treats them. Even Seath is weakened by his own madness, and when you destroy the only thing keeping him immortal. How I saw things is that the Lords killed as many dragons as they could, Everlasting or otherwise, and likely buried the remains far below in Izalith so that none could reach them. So, when the Bed of Chaos is created from the Witch's hubris, and there is that explosive burst of arcane energy that created Demons, is it too far of a stretch to say that it reanimated the remains of some of these ancient beasts, or that something was awoken in them to bring them back, in a sense, from their death? Now as for the backsides only... I look at that as a gameplay thing as the front halves are all coded to be stationary targets, so to make them a threat, they utilized the part coded to move around.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by nsane32 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:41 pm

    yea that is a possibility or they could have been reanimated by the Bed of Chaos to protect it self from evaders but with this game they try to keep you in the dark as much as they can revealing little about the lore, so kudos to you Acidic_Cook for finding all this out keep up the great work


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Kyubi-Nick on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:20 pm

    Ash Lake is something that perplexes me. The area is completely different from anywhere else in the game. It's huge, open, and... empty. As well as feeling completely cut off from the world. While you can see it from the Tomb of Giants, you can't see the place that you visit if you go there. Not only that, but looking around from the shores of Ash lake, you can't see the cliff wall where the Tomb should be, either. All you can see is an endlessly stretching black sea and trees. Yet, we can be sure that not all of the world is in such a way, because from the Undead Asylum you can see that there are mountains and normal features of the world.

    There's also the Black Hydra. Why is it there? Is it native to Ash Lake? And if it is, then why is there one in the Darkroot Basin? What do these two areas have in common that causes their presence?

    And Lordran.... where is it? Does it rest ontop of the trees of Ash Lake itself? Anor Londo is clearly the centerpoint of what appears to be a mountain where Lordran is, but looking down from above, the entirety of it disappears bellow the clouds.... while looking up from Ash Lake, all that can be seen is clouds, with the Archtrees stretching into them. Why are these trees not visible from Lordran? Is the tree at Firelink the top of it? It appears that there's an arch tree that goes through Lost Izalith as well.

    There also exists a broken Arch Tree in the middle of the explorable area of Ash Lake. What could have broken something so huge? And where is anything to do with it? Did fall long, long ago? Could it have sunk down in Ash Lake? Is the hollow piece where inbetween the Bonfire and the tree that contains a Dragon Scale part of it? Or is it possible that the shore of Ash Lake is actually the ashen remains of the tree, burned down by some great, enormous force? And the giant skull. What is it from? There are slight horns that can be seen at the top of it. But nothing else like it is ever seen.

    And lastly, the Everlasting Dragon... something about it seems... off. Looking closely at it's face, rather than a long snout, it instead has a flat, human-like face. Is it possible that the Everlasting Dragon is the intended result of those of the Path of the Dragon covenant? If so, than why would the head produced by the Dragon Head Stone have such a snout? If the dragon is immortal and can take any punishment, then why can its tail be cut off? And why would, of all things, a Dragon itself be a Firekeeper? Could it represent something? Because it's entirely possible to make your way to every area of the game, and kill every single enemy and ally without rest, and reach it's Bonfire at Ash Lake. The two of you can, with effort, be entirely alone in Lordran. Does such a thing hold any significance?


    As for a bit of other input, for the Daughters of Chaos; All 7 are seen in game. We have Queelag and her sister, Queelana, the Unnamed one in Lost Izalith, Ceaseless Discharge and the body it overlooks, and The Bed Of Chaos.... with the two orbs on it's side. It seems likely to me that, if there are only 7 Daughters of Chaos, than the two orbs on the Bed of Chaos are those two. Just my two cents.

    But yeah. Ash Lake. Is there... anything? Anything at all that even seems to answer anything about it? It's such an alien world... but one I want to know so much about.


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Kyubi-Nick on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:52 am

    The idea that the Dragons were once human.... the presentation of that is honestly extraordinarily convincing. Which leads me to some speculation on the Gaping Dragon....

    Perhaps the reason that the Gaping Dragon's tail is the Dragon King Greataxe is because it is, not the ruler of the Dragons, but rather a ruler of Blighttown, with a means of entering The Depths. The Greataxe's description describes the Gaping Dragon as a 'distant, deformed descendant of the Everlasting Dragons'. So perhaps, it was as the person who became the Gaping Dragon resided in The Depths or Blighttown, the effects of Blighttown manifested themselves, in the ways of the other inhabitants of Blighttown, such as the Infested Hollows and Barbarians in which it warped and twisted them. When the person was finally able to become a true dragon, his form had been mangled and warped by the poison, and thus he became almost a representation of it. However, as he had resided in Blighttown and the Depths for his time as a human, it was able to remain in his mind, and this lead him to reside there, being dubbed by the 'inhabitants' of Blighttown their king, much in a way to a god.

    It could be also that the term King could simply mean the man who became the Gaping Dragon was himself a king, possibly of what eventually became Blighttown or something else, or perhaps considered the most powerful and promising of the Path of the Dragon followers of the time, until he was twisted and corrupted by the poison.

    I don't think I can possibly match your own level of depth and looking into things, but I find my views different and hopefully helpful to the ongoing search for a deeper understanding of the Dark Souls world.


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by BishopG on Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:12 am

    Very interesting thread and, acidic, your writing (though it seems to be becoming increasingly arrogant) sheds lots of light on the depth of this game ... which is what I love about Dark Souls.

    The character that interests me the most, and seems to interest you, is Crossbreed Priscilla. There is a fact about her that seems to be very elementary, yet I didn't see it mentioned in this thread. Maybe it is mentioned thoroughly in others and all of this is well known by everyone - I don't know, this is, luckily for me, the first lore I have read and was pulled in, reading all of it and had to comment. Anyway, to the painted world:

    The peculiar doll. It is found in the player's original cell. So the two of us (the crossbreed and the player) seem to be intimately linked by this fact. Also, you can only find the doll by returning to the Asylum - that is, returning to your origins, to your beginning.

    When playing Dark Souls, what strikes me is a real feeling of loneliness and isolation. That the game creates this atmosphere is part of what makes it great. This loneliness feels akin to being an outcast as is Priscilla. And it is interesting that in her painted world Velka's items are found - justice too has left Lordran, justice has been exiled as it were. Even the two ending do not seem wholly satisfying (no matter which you view as 'good') and it feels as though if there is more to the game, it lies with Priscilla. The pendant is about memories, the peculiar doll is obtained by returning to your beginnings.

    Also, it is guarded by a Black knight, if I am not mistaken. This is interesting too, since, as you say, they seem to be hunting the forces of chaos, yes there is the Stray Demon, but it is guarding the key to the painted world and your origin as far as you know it in the game. If there is anything before that cell, it is lost to your memory, though maybe the memory resides in your character, locked in the pendant ...? I don't know what any of this means, of course, only that I feel Priscilla is very important to the artistry of the game and the players feeling as he plays it.

    So, as you so perfectly put, when you meet Priscilla don't be quick to attack her, it truly feels she is the closest thing to a kindred spirit that you have in Dark Souls.

    Anyway, as I said, perhaps all of this is well known in the community, I hope I haven't wasted anyones time.



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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by sunbro on Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:01 am

    keep it coming acidic good work

    yesterday finished another playtrough
    As i was finiching this one for the BB glitch I decided to just kill everyone i could find for some item harvesting
    So also killed the white spiderwich (firekeeper) and I got her soul
    Her souls also has a unique discription

    "Soul of a Daughter of Chaos, Fire Keeper of Quelaag's Domain.
    A Fire Keeper's soul is a draw for humanity, and held within their
    bosoms, below just a thin layer of skin, are swarms of humanity that
    writhe and squirm. To her, the countless eggs which appeared were
    cradles for each tiny humanity."


    "Soul of the Ash Maiden, Fire Keeper of Firelink Shrine.
    A Fire Keeper's soul is a draw for humanity, and held within their bosoms, below just a thin layer of skin, are swarms of humanity that writhe and squirm. Was the Ash Maiden locked in this dark prison for some transgression, or by her own will?"

    "Soul of the Darkmoon Knightess, Fire Keeper of Anor Londo.
    A Fire Keeper's soul is a draw for humanity, and held within their bosoms, below just a thin layer of skin, are swarms of humanity that writhe and squirm. Her brass armor serves to disguise this ghastly form."

    General Description
    "Soul of a long-lost Fire Keeper.
    Each Fire Keeper is a corporeal manifestation of her bonfire, and a draw for the humanity which is offered to her. Her soul is gnawed by infinite humanity, and can boost the power of the precious Estus Flask. Reinforced Estus Flasks capture denser Estus, allowing for increased restoration of HP."

    So of all the firekeepers there's only three that are different for the others
    Is there more to them do they have multiple uses or give more souls then regular souls
    May it's possible to reinstate them like Anastacia's


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by nsane32 on Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:22 pm

    all the lore of the Souls games are shrouded in darkness as such is the world endless suffering to man and beast alike not being allowed to die but to live on as hollowed beings not of mind or soul you are one such soul looking for salvation who you once where and who you have become in demon souls you became a spirit trying to reclaim your body in dark souls you die completely only regaining lost power not your humanity so as the story progresses the suffering becomes greater until their is finally Lite, until that happens your story will never end you will always live until the curse of the dark sign is broken no living being can escape its reach no lord or dragon, only you a lost soul can stop it by destroying the fire ending the lords and the suffering it brought, letting humans live free and almost without fear no worrying about going hollow so wait and the games lore will slowly reveal it self for the dead cannot die


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