The Search for Lore

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    Spurgun
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Spurgun on Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:43 am

    i was watching the trailer and i noticed something. in the trailer it shows the realm of the everlasting dragons(ash lake) but when it shows the first fire it goes downwards. i started thinking that maybe the first fire was below ash lake but that doesn't make sense since the place were you fight gwyn is called "kiln of the first flame". also it shows that humans came from the place below ash lake(the abyss maybe). maybe there is some way to go downwards from the ash lake.

    this is just some theory i made and it might be a bit random but i would like to hear your thoughts about this happy
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Carphil on Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:08 am

    Try to dive in Ash Lake and see what happens


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Spurgun on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:03 am

    Carphil wrote:Try to dive in Ash Lake and see what happens

    you die silly. believe me i have tried
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by JY4answer on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:32 pm

    Thanks for taking my post seriously. I really appreciate it, as I am sort of a nut for how geography of games come together logically. I was very impressed by how the Undead Burg, Lower Undead Burg, hellkite drake bridge, Sunlight Altair, gargoyle chapel and everything there all falls together into one solid, logical landscape. You can see bits of one area from another, and nothing is out of place of impossible to exist.

    Back to the arch trees. Its possible that there isn't a solid roof over Ash Lake. We see plenty of fogged areas under Firelink Shrine from the first raven flight, and they might even be the same atmosphere we see from Ash Lake. Places like the Catacombs, Tomb of Giants, Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith are probably within solid ground, but there's no saying that these can't be suspended on top of the archtrees, lifted as they grow taller and taller.

    Not only is this game punishing. Its beautiful, and it all makes sense. Its a truly fleshed out world, which is very rare these days. All praise From Software, my favourite developer since I started video games.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Kyubi-Nick on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:42 pm

    I think that, in regards to Arch Trees in Ash Lake, that the Firelink tree is the one that the Everlasting/Stone Dragon resides in. If you look from either the Great Hollow's entrance in Blighttown or Firelink, you can clearly see the two trees, and they appear to be at a similar distance from oneanother.

    Also, in regards to being able to see Ash Lake from the Tomb of the Giant, I have one thing that I don't understand.... Why can't you see the Tomb of the Giants from Ash Lake? You can just barely make it out from the Demon Ruins if you stand in the right place around where Ceaseless Discharge is, but looking around from Ash Lake, you can't see anything that resembles it at all.

    Also, the Lost Izalith roots are probably corrupted ones of the Arch Tree in the center. Thinking about it though, is it possible that the Arch Tree in Izalith is the same as the one in Firelink?


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Kyubi-Nick on Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:24 am

    Acidic_Cook wrote: As it is, their is a third, middle tree that the player sees, in which case was utterly destroyed.

    I feel I should point out, as I noticed the other day, that there are in fact 5 Arch-Trees in Ash Lake that are not part of the background. One is the one that contains The Great Hollow, the second the destroyed one with Great Magic Barrier, and the third, the one with the Everlasting/Ston Dragon inside, which has it's entrance surrounded by two more broken Arch Trees on each side.


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Gol on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:12 pm

    I didn't know where to talk about it but since it looks like you're searching on everything about the lore, I'm gonna do this here.

    There's the dark moon seance ring that, we all know, unlocks the way to the dark moon covenant but there is also a white seance ring, I've never seen anyone talk about it but that ring must have a link with the way of white, it can't be useless, what if it unlocks a way to the way of white cov leader ?
    Because, after all, it's the only covenant that seems to have no ranks... I mean, if the others have a ranking system etc, it must be the same for the WOW.

    It can be found in the catacombs (I'm not so sure but I think I found it there too, like the darkmoon seance ring) and in the duke's archives on the maiden corpse and I think that Reah has it too (not so sure about that too).
    I know that there's still the problem that Way of white leader is Gwyn but after all, we can join the gravelord cov at the beginning of a new game...
    Maybe there's a secret way, or maybe Way of white's leader isn't gwyn.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:13 pm

    Is this what you were looking for?
    Sadly there isn't an index which states where to go for each dialogue...So I read through it myself and found the Serpent/Dragons.
    http://pastebin.com/XuwvnyM9
    Line 931 is Frampt, and line 937 is the other one. It is a bit odd, but I've been reading some of them and from what I remember these do seem to be correct, I know definitely the visual representation could use some sprucing up.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:19 pm

    It's a pleasure to help, I love coming by every now and then and reading your massive walls since I'm a lore hound myself, I just get so sidetracked. I'm more a "read tons of books" type of guy, so I love this thread and what you do.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Gol on Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:36 pm

    Acidic_Cook wrote:Way of White's Leader is not Gwyn. it is Gwyn's Uncle, known as Lloyd. A Talisman, Lloyd's Talisman, is named after him. Lloyd is the uncle of Gwyn, in which still rules as the god of the followers of Thorland, and possibly Astora as well.

    The Way of White is not the only one without a ranking. The Princess' Guard has no Ranking as well. As it is, the two covenants have no such bounds of ranking, and instead just gives benefits at the start without tribute, however the Princess' Guard gives more than the Way of White.

    As for the White Seance Ring... maybe. I do not know where such a secret would be at, however their are many holy places which associate with such a term, including including the Butterfly area of the Forest, the Undead Parish, the Catacombs, the Tomb of Giants, Anor Londo, New Londo, and other such places. As for the leader of the Way of White, the two who associate with the way of white are the ones of the same belief, and players can start in the way of white, with the benefit of being resistant to Invasions, and that is basically what the covenant has to offer. A PvE aspect that saves them from constant invasions.

    If you would like to try such Ring Searchings, you can if you like, and post the search in the archives. However, unlike such secrets, the Search for Lore searches mostly for lore, and not gameplay. However, I have done such searches in the gameplay to search for hidden lore, it is not the major focus. It discovers the story, the hidden meanings of such a game. Unlike many, it hides the whole truth, not saying the whole truth, and sometimes even lie. Usually the only truth can be seen from the items, locations, and minor details in the game that everyone surpasses. I have the ring, and have worn it around. However have not found anything. Of course I have not worn such a ring 24/7, so you can give it a try if need be.

    In a few hours, the post of the glutton Dragons will be posted again. No one has posted the dialogues of the beasts, but I will use youtube to find the dialogue from my trusted child masked friend. It will be posted soon.


    I wasn't sure about Gwyn being the leader of the Way of White, but I meant it was related to Gwyn, as for Lloyd, I know who he is.

    Actually, I'm doing my research on different things in the game too.
    And, a few days ago something just popped up in my head when I was talking to a NPC, I don't remember exactly but that has to do with the pendant, I think I found the secret, or at least the link but I had something to do, I kept it in my head, hide in a corner of my mind but I'm not really the "Clever" type of guy and I forgot.

    Just like when you forget something that you're about to say, it's a frustrating feeling, All I remember is that it had something to do with reah, Kaathe and Anastacia the firekeeper of firelink shrine and the pendant of course, there's a lot more but I can't remember...
    And I better not think about it, it just makes me angry.

    I thought of something, there are some NPCs who have some dialogue lines : "MMMnn".
    At first, we could think that this is just to show that they're talkin to theirselves and that they aren't saying anything understandable but I could identify some "words", maybe they're saying interesting stuffs, I should try something, like recording and play it backward.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Kyubi-Nick on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:07 pm

    I thought it was Havel who was Gwyn's uncle, not Lloyd. Where was it said to be Lloyd, or that he was also one of Gwyn's uncles?


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Gorgrim on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:16 pm

    I posted this in the "who is sen?" thread, I thought I'd post it here in case you want to add this to the main lore thread:

    "Not sure if this has been posted before but, Sens fortress is probably based on the actual Princess Sen, who lived in Himeji Castle. It was a fortified castle, with advanced defernsive systems from the feudal period in Japan. It still stands there today as a national historic site.Pretty cool eh? just wiki Himeji castle for more info."
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:02 pm

    question, in all the japanese dark souls vids the text has been japanese but the vocals were in english... the exact same english as the U.s ver... and on a side note; the Himeji castle thing is cool!


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Kyubi-Nick on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:12 pm

    That's a common thing in Japanese games, I'm quite sure. They do English voicing while just having the subtitles and whatnot.


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Kyubi-Nick on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:19 pm

    Acidic_Cook wrote:]Well, if you see, their is a black star of some kind, in which seemingly is of similar shape to that of the Warrior of Sunlight symbol. Even more so, since the symbol is that of the shield of Solaire, and he painted it himself on the shield...

    I, personally, think the image that is seen resembles the emblem of The Princess's Guard moreso than the Warrior of Sunlight emblem.


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Carphil on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:52 pm

    Acidic, I tell you this: You will find the secret of the pedant! And then a revelation shall visit thee


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:09 pm

    Regarding a possible idea of Solaire being the God of War and Pygmy, as for the God stature I could possibly see that, but him being the Pygmy I don't. I could see him being a descendant of Gwyn, or the Pygmy, possibly both if possible, but him being that being itself doesn't sound right to me. Would he not have a fragment of the Lord Soul that the Pygmy had, or something relating to it? I always imagined that Lord Soul belonging to the Four Kings, more than likely descendants of the Pygmy.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:45 pm

    if you can figure out the secret of the pendant, from will probably hire you to write the lore for the next game...


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Gol on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:36 pm

    I prefer to see the pendant as an idea.
    It's and everlasting quest for knowledge, a journey, an adventure, I don't think it really has a secret but I like to think it has maybe one and imagine what this could be and search for that secret.

    By the way, I just thought of someting, that you may find simple or stupid but sometimes human being are going the wrong way by making exetremely complicated reasonings.
    The pendant's in-game description says that it's linked to good memories and that it can help going through difficult situations.
    (I read that the description was the same as the sunlight medal multiple times but I've got the good description, I'm playing on the french version of the game so maybe the error just occured on the other versions, or it has been corrected since the last patch ?
    Cause I don't remember if I had the wrong description before.)

    But anyway, the pendant is linked to good memories that can help you going through difficult situations, what memories could it be ?
    The memories of your "home", I think it's an evidence, the character is an undead and has been sent to the asylum and is now on a journey to kindle the flame/becoming the dark lord but his life hasn't always been like this, he must have a "home".

    Then I remembered the descriptions of the "homeward" miracle and the "homeward bone" :

    "Great miracle cast by advanced clerics. Return to the last bonfire rested at.
    Would normally link to one's homeland, only the curse of the Undead has distorted its power, redirecting casters to a bonfire.
    Or perhaps for Undead, this serves as home?"

    "Bone fragment reduced to white ash. Return to last bonfire used for resting.
    Bonfires are fueled by bones of the Undead. In rare cases, the strong urge of their previous owner's to seek bonfires enchants their bones with a homeward instinct."

    Well.. I just thought "maybe there's a way to use the pendant with the miracle or the item to return to your "home" or at leat, knowing about your origins".
    I tried some experiments, I thought that maybe the pendant acts like a bonfire and you can drop it somewhere and when using the miracle or the item it would bring you there and not at the last bonfire but when I got the idea I just had killed Gwyn so maybe at the moment the game prevents you from returning to the last bonfire but anyway... I dropped one pendant (I had 2 pendants, Reah's and mine) and used a homeward bone and I reappeared in the room where you fight gwyn, the place where I dropped the pendant.

    But like I said, maybe the game prevents you from returning to a bonfire so I should try it somewhere else but I don't think the pendant is just an item that can be used as a "bonfire", if it really has a secret it's linked to the origins of the character, to his "home" and can be used in some way.

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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by steal_yer_bike on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:56 pm

    If Solaire is the god of war, then why is it stated no one knows the god of war's name? It would be over-analysis to assume that that statement's purpose was meant to mislead me from the truth.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:42 pm

    But didn't the God of War inherit the Spear Miracles after Gwyn became the Lord of Cinder? Also I can see what you are getting at, I think I just misread your words, I've always been pretty interested in the identity of the god of war, as well as any information regarding Velka which sadly is pretty scarce. Also, I was always curious about the use of Miracles alongside the Silver Knights. In the trailer they are seen casting the spears alongside Gwyn, yet in game they seem to be lacking the capacity. Is this merely because of the difficulty it would present the player, did they lose the ability along with Gwyn, is it because of their illusory state? I was wondering if you've found anything that could help explain this, or if anyone in general has.

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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by steal_yer_bike on Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:45 am

    Just wanted to share some thoughts. I can't participate much, as i dont have the time. I find this whole pendant thing very interesting and would like to see more information.

    Are lautrec and oswald the 2 sealers that abandoned their post in new londo? Ingward talks about this. Ingward breaks curses, in the description of the purging stone you find these were earl of carim's treasure.

    We are to gwynevere as the baby is to the statue of gwynevere(assuming the statues are of her).

    There are 9 gods in mayan religion, and the world in mayan religion is surrounding a tree of life, with the under world, concrete central world and also the heavens up above. There are 9 covenants. The number nine in general is considered the ending number for any number cycle, it can be perceived as death.

    Are there any relations to greek mythology in the lore?

    There are pictures of an old man offering an egg to someone in the undead church, on the sides of the maiden statue. What does it mean?

    What are the symbols near the catacombs, on the rocks?
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:51 pm

    I definitely have thought that the standing maiden status are Gwynevere with a baby. Maybe its her mother with Lord Gwyn's sons and daughters.


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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:35 pm

    As for the relation to Greek Mythology, I'd have to say Gwyn and the Lords ending the reign of Dragons to start their own is similar to the Exploits of Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon in their defeat of the Titans for supremacy. The throwing of Lightning by Gwyn could also be considered a similar trait.
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    Re: The Search for Lore

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:04 pm

    Anor Londo is the city of Gods, as Mount Olympus.


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