Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:21 pm

    I make sure I have the resources on hand then do each shield down the list, I like to keep on a roll once I get going. Hopefully this week I'll be able to take a crack at magic and then +9/10 divine will be whenever I can get those last few chunks.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Carphil on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:30 pm

    I'm just getting the embers, next going to do fire, magic and divine for Iron round


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:33 pm

    Please keep the discussions in their appropriate thread! Weapons in weapon's, shields in shield's. silly This one got a little derailed. I just want to make sure other people who want to help can properly keep track of who's doing what.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:19 am

    I was looking at the weapon pages and I realized, we can remove bleed/poison from them. Also the more I look the more inaccuracies I see. Like a Crystal Dagger not having A scaling at +4/5, that seems to odd when Bandit's has it listed as A. I feel we shouldn't just focus on +4/9/14s but also making sure the data already put in place is correct.

    I am also in the process of removing any Raw +4 I find.

    I have changed Bandit's Knife for you all to see, assuming someone had bothered to put in the divine/occult damages it would look a bit better >.>

    Aside from the Bastard Sword, Claymore, and Flamberge, I'm up at the start of curved swords for adding in +4/9/14 and icons and any other little thing I notice.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by ublug on Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:28 am

    I'm undecided on the weapons, since the aux effects are a bit more important than for shields.
    Let's see. There's 1 weapon with poison and 1 with toxin. There's 7 special wepons with divine/occult modifiers, apart from divine/occult upgrades? There's also the cursed weapons, but their properties is not listed in the stats. And there's about 15 bleed weapons?
    Aux effects is not increased with upgrades afaik, so it could be placed somewhere else. There's also the durability for crystal upgrades, is it reduced to 1/10th or something?

    The problem with the current tables is that they can get too wide, and you have to scroll the page sideways, which is not ideal. Removing the weapon name from every upgrade step also helped a lot.
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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:35 am

    Ok I have not been experiencing the sideways scroll, then again this at 1600 by 900. So if that is happening then yes we do need to remove some columns it sounds like. Could long text run-ons possible cause this, like the little bit in "Required for build" on the Bandit's Knife? Trimming those up could help alot if so.

    For crystal durability I was planning for shields to add "Crystal: #" just under normal durability, could do the same thing for weapons.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by ublug on Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:33 am

    The sideways scroll starts about 1200 on the weapons page http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/weapons and arond 1100 for the individual pages http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Broadsword
    Just window your browser and shrink its width, scroll appears on the very bottom. Text outside the table is unproblematic, since it wraps according to the page width. The tables, on the other hand, are locked at a minimum width, depending on what's in them. So when you get to the 'Acquired From' section, the sentences are broken up into 1-3 words on each line.
    I don't know what is considered acceptable, but it should at least display properly on an HD monitor (1280).
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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:44 am

    Ok I see what you mean, that is quite a problem. I can't even think of what to do for the main page, I suppose we could take out where it's acquired from and make sure it's all on the individual pages.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by ublug on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:05 am

    I stacked the durability and weight in the same coloumn, that helped a bit. I also made attack type into "slash thrust" instead of "Sl / T", as it didn't take up any more space. http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Daggers

    For the individual pages we could just shrink the "Auxiliary" section to 3 icons instead of 4. Switch between bleed and poison when necessary, and just use a dash (-) for the weapons without aux.
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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:13 am

    Took me a moment to notice but that does add some room.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by ublug on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:27 am

    Or we could just add only the Aux of that particular weapon on each page. This means the tables will vary for different weapons, which could complicate the editing process later.

    I'll leave the individual pages alone for now, but I'll reformat the weapon overview pages.
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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:48 pm

    Yeah, for the Aux effects that don't change according to upgrades, we have 2 options:

    1. Only insert the column on the tables of weapons that require them (not ideal, I agree)

    2. Or we could just slip it in the weapon stats listed above on the page. Either insert it under the "attack type", add "Auxiliary Effect: Bleed" (example), or put it in bullet point under notes. I think it would be harder to miss if it was right under attack type, so I'd place it there myself, but you guys can decide.

    The daggers page looks good, btw.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:13 pm

    I'll hopfully do some fiddilng tonight, I slept horribly and not very long, giving me a bad headache most of the day.I noticed today that on weapons that as far as I am aware of can't block, such as the parry dagger or the claws, if we take out the damage reduction values how much would that help?

    Another more silly idea is the reverse what we did with shields and remove the damage reduction values all together. It is a bit extreme, but it should clear up alot of space. Or could we possible just move the normal paths values somewhere at the top of the page?


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:36 pm

    I don't know, that sounds like a lot of slashing! I think it'd be best to try and keep the tables as uniform from one weapon to another, though. So cutting the damage reductions section from some and not others would be pretty jarring a distinction...

    But if we just change the Aux section to one column, like ublug did with the Daggers page, it would be a good start.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by ublug on Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:08 am

    Damage reduction values are important, at least for the large weapons.
    I changed the Bandit's Knife a bit more, just the Auxiliary heading. There should be more than enough space on that page now.
    The 'location' section on the overview pages are still a bit cramped, but it should be enough for now. Detailed information should be kept to the individual pages anyway.

    BLA1NE wrote:Or we could just slip it in the weapon stats listed above on the page.
    Either insert it under the "attack type", add "Auxiliary Effect: Bleed"
    (example), or put it in bullet point under notes. I think it would be
    harder to miss if it was right under attack type, so I'd place it there
    myself, but you guys can decide.
    This sounds good to me. Changing it later won't be an issue either, as long as the info is somewhere on the page.
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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:58 am

    Also took the bold off the headers for bandit's, it affects damage reductions and stability mostly but it is a noticeable difference.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Demi_God0415 on Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:47 am

    I really like the idea of putting the aux in a column rather than seperating it from the stats. I think that this will make the pages easier to read, eliminating the need to scroll up & down with weapons such as weapons that has the possibility to have two aux effects. I'm also against in removing other informations pertaining something, just show the infos and let the users 'read' it. I know that space is such a problematic thing but in a site aiming to share infos, infos are... I think you know where i'm going with this. Also, its possible to get the +5s stats of weapons with the stats of the +4s by going to the reinforcement info, i think we should put that on the weapon checklist. Just my thoughts happy


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by ublug on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:24 am

    We are trying to keep the upgrade specific aux on the upgrade table, and only move the inherent aux effects. The inherent effects of the weapon can't be changed with upgrades either. I'm thinking about eventually redoing the requirements section to include weight/durablity/bleed/poison as well. This is for the individual pages only.
    The aux section on the weapons overview page should stay. http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Weapons

    I also made a 'key' page for catalysts, it's mostly there to explain the icons. I compacted the weapons key page and removed some unnecessary stats. http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Catalyst+Description
    Should I place strength/dexterity on the same row, and intelligence/faith on the same row, instead of the same coloumn (as they are now)?
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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:49 pm

    I edited the catalyst key page rather than try and describe my idea--figured it would be simpler. I saved it as "Suggestion 1" and "Suggestion 2", you can look them over and revert to either one or yours, if you prefer. I didn't fix all the formatting though, figured it could wait until you'd picked one. So the table has some extra rows/ columns that need to be removed. (I did try repeatedly to have it align "center" but some of the cells are refusing to comply...)


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by BLA1NE on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:13 pm

    @Demi_God

    I figured looking at the stats for the next upgrade level in the upgrade menu was common knowledge, but you're right, it's worth slipping a note on the page. That's what the instructions section is for, after all! While I was doing that I also added a note on adding info to the wiki (only add base damage and scaling letter, not bonus damage obtained from scaling...) and a tip on recycling ores, for research purposes.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:13 pm

    Same column seems more in line, I believe most of the other keys follow this method? Fixed the alignment after some poking around, somehow they were set to stay on left in the Style Text.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:30 pm

    Want to bump this, I see Ublug has been working on them and I'm getting back into the process of formating pages.

    Once the 4/9/14 additions are done perhaps a thread asking for help filling them in and checking numbers already up? Even between a few people that's a lot of weapons and paths to be doing and would probably take like a month depending on play times.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by FexDS on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:47 pm

    The weapons page is looking quite nice, not cluttered but still retaining the information people need. I'm really impressed how the format has mutated from our first attempts to this, it's looking better than bought guides xD


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by Whknight on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:50 pm

    This is what happens to people with enough time on their hands and care about their work happy

    I'll probably put a thread up at the end of the night, after that we can go about finishing the formating of pages, at least that is what I plan to do.

    Another thought, to shorten the tables horizontally we can remove the Chaos +4 and Chaos +5 @ 10 Humanity and just leave it as @ 10 Humanity.


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    Re: Weapon Upgrade Stats at +4/ +14?

    Post by BLA1NE on Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:17 am

    We could also remove the bleed and poison aux effects from the table and add them to the weapon's properties listed at the top (type, weight, etc). A weapon either has these or it doesn't, so there's no need for it to be in the table. Just divine and occult, since those are added by upgrade.


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