Open discussion of future FC events.

The FC rules are clear guys, this is an honorable arena mainly and it is done for fun, character growth and community interaction, so when you think about which methods
of fighting to use, first think about the environment you will be at.This is not the forest
or the Kiln, we behave mainly with respect and an ambient of friendly competition.

When we start dismantling all the rules to our advantage then we damage this small
haven which has been created for us, so you might use wotg once maybe I dunno, but
we always have one constant in FC, we prefer to win fair and consider our opponent
while at the same time give him a chance to fight us in a battle which has the most
equality in power that we can attain to.

I think one or two or three wotg doesn't hurt, I don't personally like using it in FC.
GMB is tricky, it will be like buffs, like in FC right now I don't buff unless you buff.
But if someone just has a MGS and you use GMB he will be in great disadvantage,
some very tricky subjects being discussed here.

sorry im confused, i thought a turtle was someone who hides behind shield all fight and only pokes head out to do the odd poke.... I was 2handing my sword all night with a shield on my back as i did not think that was a turtle. Can someone clear this up for me... Was i a turtle? What is a turtle? Please?

And sorry if anyone thought 2 handing was cheap.

Maneater_Mildred wrote:sorry im confused, i thought a turtle was someone who hides behind shield all fight and only pokes head out to do the odd poke.... I was 2handing my sword all night with a shield on my back as i did not think that was a turtle. Can someone clear this up for me... Was i a turtle? What is a turtle? Please?

And sorry if anyone thought 2 handing was cheap.

Hey Mildred! You are correct. Turtling means keeping your shield up and poking without lowering it. 2 handing any weapon is not cheap and that is what I do. I hope you will be able to make it for this as well. I have not fought you in quite some time. I hope everything is going well with you.

Baal-Avatar wrote:

Maneater_Mildred wrote:sorry im confused, i thought a turtle was someone who hides behind shield all fight and only pokes head out to do the odd poke.... I was 2handing my sword all night with a shield on my back as i did not think that was a turtle. Can someone clear this up for me... Was i a turtle? What is a turtle? Please?

And sorry if anyone thought 2 handing was cheap.

Hey Mildred! You are correct. Turtling means keeping your shield up and poking without lowering it. 2 handing any weapon is not cheap and that is what I do. I hope you will be able to make it for this as well. I have not fought you in quite some time. I hope everything is going well with you.

Thanks thats what i thought.... I should be at most FCs now as family is doing good thanks. I was on yesterday... But our paths never crossed, same with my 2 brothers, fought them each once then never saw them again(i did beat both of them )

ok cool i was not clear on what turtling was either.

Maneater_Mildred wrote:sorry im confused, i thought a turtle was someone who hides behind shield all fight and only pokes head out to do the odd poke.... I was 2handing my sword all night with a shield on my back as i did not think that was a turtle. Can someone clear this up for me... Was i a turtle? What is a turtle? Please?

And sorry if anyone thought 2 handing was cheap.

Hmm I will jump on this train, I personally like nimble caracters and agile dexterity, so I cannot live
with slow rolls even if it means having to use too light armor with no poise or defense.
But turtling to my knowledge in it's extreme means for example full havels with shiels and a spear
hiding behind shield and not being able to roll, although in it's simplest definition as abvious
turtling is using the biggest armor and going slow taking hits and hitting hard.

@Mildred, dunno if it was sarcastically what you said but no one should be condemned for two handing
a weapon in any way.

Edit:Seems Baal had said it all before me...

Yesuurd I get your point about buffs, but i remember one fight, I think it was against carphil?

anyway i buffed and got him down to enough health for me to kill him with one hit. He dodged for a minute till my buff wore out then killed me. I think this example shows perfectly that buffs aint as amazing as some think they are. If you are scared, just dodge it and pepper them with some magic to keep their distance for a while. My opinion anyways.

Also on WoG, I'm not sure how people view it, personally I have no problem as long as it's not a three burst spam. I know I'm biased because I use WoG myself but i think the way the spell is used is just as important. Even if it doesn't hit it gets you breathing room, which can really help. Just saying, taking away the tools of a *fairly* made and used build and playstyle puts some at a disadvantage. Just like my point with buffs, it's not a complete disadvantage and someone said even that a build has to use their +15 weapon against an elemental one.... that is even more of a mismatch. :|

Just giving a contrasting view to this discussion, because at the moment all these posts are going towards total banning of magic even buffs, which i think would be a shame for the diversity of potential fights in the club. :|

Thanks yesuurd. Just needed to clear things up as i thought i might have miss understood the turtle rule.
Gonna make a new toon or 2 for FC in the next few weeks so i can have hosts in different places.

I don't find that unfair Mildred, then again I was doing that as my Gwyn Cosplay.

Serious_Much wrote:Yesuurd I get your point about buffs, but i remember one fight, I think it was against carphil?

anyway i buffed and got him down to enough health for me to kill him with one hit. He dodged for a minute till my buff wore out then killed me. I think this example shows perfectly that buffs aint as amazing as some think they are. If you are scared, just dodge it and pepper them with some magic to keep their distance for a while. My opinion anyways.

Also on WoG, I'm not sure how people view it, personally I have no problem as long as it's not a three burst spam. I know I'm biased because I use WoG myself but i think the way the spell is used is just as important. Even if it doesn't hit it gets you breathing room, which can really help. Just saying, taking away the tools of a *fairly* made and used build and playstyle puts some at a disadvantage. Just like my point with buffs, it's not a complete disadvantage and someone said even that a build has to use their +15 weapon against an elemental one.... that is even more of a mismatch. :|

Just giving a contrasting view to this discussion, because at the moment all these posts are going towards total banning of magic even buffs, which i think would be a shame for the diversity of potential fights in the club. :|

I see your points, this is all complex and matter of opinions.If you have to roll around till a buff ends you are doing this to even the fight since the weapon is OP during that time in relation to you, thing is Serious
that in your argument what you are saying really is that no matter what, anyone can win if the odds are against them, that is true and very known in this game, but what differentiates FC from free pvp around
dark souls is that there are rules so that people have duels in a different manner, don't know if you get me?

If you want to roll till the buff disappears and roll around wotg you can do that in any invasion or duel around darks souls or even so on the most debated of all issues, the backstab, we can all survive a backstab
and win but in FC you don't have to worry about it you see?

And bear in mind I am not biased since I adore backstabbing and have learnt in FC to depend on other tactics to win which is refreshing.

i think wog should be allowed if there is magic, its the only viable spell for faith builds and considering it is weaker to most int spells, specially css which can ohko you if they have dusk crown the the magic ring equipped. i personally only use it to keep people away from me since i use slow weapons and people just wait for me to attack and bs me, even in FC.

RantFromRant wrote:i think wog should be allowed if there is magic, its the only viable spell for faith builds and considering it is weaker to most int spells, specially css which can ohko you if they have dusk crown the the magic ring equipped. i personally only use it to keep people away from me since i use slow weapons and people just wait for me to attack and bs me, even in FC.

There is the thing, spamming is what ruins it, I use WOTG for the same reasons....anyways I am not really
the creator of FC or anything so I really don't know, maybe things should be polled or discussed.

My opinion on this was based on what I thought of FC not personal preference, I would be fine with
whatever anyone throws at me at the end.

I get what you mean, but thing is don't you think the way some are trying to narrow things down by removing buffs and magic, it just means pretty much everyone is dodging and having a lightning weapon. Im no expert but to me there's something wrong if there's no diversity.

You're saying pretty much that in fight club it should be a different manner, i find that manner to be with respectful PvP. No cheap BS with hornets ring of spamming WoG/ganking you get with regular PvP (I tried enough times, so have you I'm sure). The way you're saying it seems to me that you're saying we should all be completely equal, right?

I think that's pretty much impossible. My buffing build has 30 Vit to maximise my power with the buff. If I cannot use it, I'm then at a disadvantage because we're on level footing with power, but my guy can take way less hits. In the same way that a guy using i dunno a chaos blade fights a guy and he isn't allowed to use his pyromancy because it's 'unfair' but his health is drained by the weapon with no other way to attack besides that due to weight?

I completely understand what you're saying, but thing is the point of SL120 builds is the diversity. If we all go equal with elemental weapons and such to make it fair, we might as well make fight club an SL60 so all we have is stats for Vit and End, or we all might as well make max HP builds.

btw +1 for your response to my initial one, made me think deeper into it.

spamming is deff not allowed, that just shows that you want a cheap win and that you dont know how to use the spell right.

Serious if you are worried about diversity don't be, as long as I'm there, there will at least be one goofy guy randomly being different characters and using different fighting styles.

Serious_Much wrote:I get what you mean, but thing is don't you think the way some are trying to narrow things down by removing buffs and magic, it just means pretty much everyone is dodging and having a lightning weapon. Im no expert but to me there's something wrong if there's no diversity.

You're saying pretty much that in fight club it should be a different manner, i find that manner to be with respectful PvP. No cheap BS with hornets ring of spamming WoG/ganking you get with regular PvP (I tried enough times, so have you I'm sure). The way you're saying it seems to me that you're saying we should all be completely equal, right?

I think that's pretty much impossible. My buffing build has 30 Vit to maximise my power with the buff. If I cannot use it, I'm then at a disadvantage because we're on level footing with power, but my guy can take way less hits. In the same way that a guy using i dunno a chaos blade fights a guy and he isn't allowed to use his pyromancy because it's 'unfair' but his health is drained by the weapon?

I completely understand what you're saying, but thing is the point of SL120 builds is the diversity. If we all go equal with elemental weapons and such to make it fair, we might as well make fight club an SL60 so all we have is stats for Vit and End, or we all might as well make max HP builds.

Yes I agree:

There is no rule in FC about buffs and I do not say buffs should not be used, I just explained how I personally do it in FC, so I think there is no real debate on that issue.

Also agreed on equality and that would be boring too, having no diversity:

My point here is not equality it is fairness or as close to it as we can get.

I don't think we can get closure on this issue because it is too diverse serious,

PM me so we don't fill this thread up, I know we can continue to have a good debate about this and
I like hearing your opinions.

Thanks.

Tolvo, i hate that i missed your cosplay builds yesterday.

I'm tempted to make a character with high Str and Dex just to cosplay actually, think it would be pretty fun to have some cosplay fights with you some time

i agree with serious the only way to really make it fair like we are trying to is to have it be sl40 with all the similar stats(depending on the elemental weapon we want to use).that might actually be fun since i think most of us could make a sl40 build pretty darn quick. but overall this is all in fun and i think most of use realize this and dont care much if we lose a few.i have had arranged duels with people a lot and we basically dont set rules and the fights are still much better then facing a try hard troll who just wants to 1shot bs you. i think we would do perfectly fine just letting everyone fight as they wish but it works perfectly fine the way its going right now. last night was my first FC but i plan on being at the rest.

very good points and great conversation

Serious Nooo! If you start doing that how am I going to use cosplaying as an excuse for my poor skills at duelling?

Tolvo wrote:Serious Nooo! If you start doing that how am I going to use cosplaying as an excuse for my poor skills at duelling?

LOL

Yesuurd I don't think i can debate any more, the fairness issue (which is all that we've left now), is something that I honestly cannot answer I'm stumped as to say what's fair and what isn't.

My final input into this though is the issue of the way PvP is in Dark Souls, it's not just equipment and tools its the way you use them mostly that counts, the skill and playstyle. Even if you have the same build (enforced by rules in this case), one player will be more suited in most circumstances to it than the other. Someone who relies on casting a lot who is forced to just 2H a lightning weapon will get mowed down. However, i have no idea how to resolve the issue.

Like you mentioned earlier, perhaps a poll or such to try and say the balance between builds of what is and isn't fair in Fight club would be the best solution.

Edit: Tolvo, don't you worry, I'm awful too, we'll scrape the bottom of the skill barrel together

I think the 1st few FCs were the most fun, when everything was ok. just limit the backstabs, no wog spam and respect your fellow fighters. Simple and fun.

Serious_Much wrote:Yesuurd I don't think i can debate any more, the fairness issue (which is all that we've left now), is something that I honestly cannot answer I'm stumped as to say what's fair and what isn't.

My final input into this though is the issue of the way PvP is in Dark Souls, it's not just equipment and tools its the way you use them mostly that counts, the skill and playstyle. Even if you have the same build (enforced by rules in this case), one player will be more suited in most circumstances to it than the other. Someone who relies on casting a lot who is forced to just 2H a lightning weapon will get mowed down. However, i have no idea how to resolve the issue.

Like you mentioned earlier, perhaps a poll or such to try and say the balance between builds of what is and isn't fair in Fight club would be the best solution.

Edit: Tolvo, don't you worry, I'm awful too, we'll scrape the bottom of the skill barrel together

Agreed my friend, go fight Tolvo he is the king of fun...also let me know to see if I join.

I am removing the event time and date from this post and will leave it as an open discussion about future FC events. There are some good discussions started that I do not want to stop. Now that there are more members to FC, it sounds like some of these issues should be addressed before moving forward. Potentially it might make sense to schedule events for different types of play styles. Like I mentioned before, this is just a way for members of the community to come together and have fun fights on Saturday nights. I was not trying to limit participation. I was trying to make it a fun experience for the participants.

I will reschedule an event when some of the issues are resolved.

Thanks for everyone's feedback in making FC a better experience.