Bring back un-announced invasions!

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    Kiva the wanderer
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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:31 pm

    Imagine a type of invasion where phantoms need to make sure you actually are killed by the enemies ( say for a humanity or souls bonus ).


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:32 pm

    I smell a neg rep troll.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Latitoast on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:07 pm

    Yes, I want someone to backstab me with *insert the new backstab weapon here at +15 in the first area* without me being aware of his presence.

    You should be alerted because generally when you're invaded it's usually by a player that understands what he is doing and is very capable of killing you, unlike the AI that can easily be manipulated into being killed.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by phastings on Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:40 pm

    Aevun wrote:Having maybe an ambient sound or some visual cue like crows flying in a specific formation in the sky would definitely be better than the immersion-breaking and quite blunt message system we have currently. Even in DkS1 we can tell if we're about to get a message by looking at the bonfire in the area. Having something like that but visible throughout the area would solve the problem a lot of you have with this idea.

    The game already punishes players for not paying attention, the devs might as well continue that trend.

    I just leave my red eye orb in slot, since it will become unusable and darken if there is an imminent invasion. Also, you can leave the quit game window up, as the option will black out if someone has actually entered your world, which i believe triggers before the invaded message.

    But yea, a subtle indicator would be pretty cool, like maybe a certain colored ash that floats thru the air intermittently when there is an invader present.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:44 pm

    Latitoast wrote:Yes, I want someone to backstab me with *insert the new backstab weapon here at +15 in the first area* without me being aware of his presence.

    You should be alerted because generally when you're invaded it's usually by a player that understands what he is doing and is very capable of killing you, unlike the AI that can easily be manipulated into being killed.
    backstabs got nerfed, again. Its is entirely possible, even if they get the drop on you, for them to miss the attempt (and promptly be diced by you while they're doing the animation and not hitting anything.)


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by hey its andres on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:10 pm

    This wouldn't be horrible if it were in specific areas (not for all pvp just stealth). In fact it would be awesome in an area like, oh I don't know, an Colosseum with phantom knights coming at you from behind traps and stuff.

    Just sayin' Shrug


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Lord of Ash on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:19 am

    someething that should never have left it was a signature just like how forest hunters came in pairs you dont know when an where theses guys are


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by hey its andres on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:23 am

    Okay what about this! In the "new undead burg" it's all cloudy and if someone invades you there then you will enter unannounced. The only thing that will alert you is that a thunderstorm will start and lightning will strike where the invader spawns.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by phastings on Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:09 pm

    ^thunderstorm would be awesome! though they would then have to think of environmental indicators for the different areas, like underground where lightning wouldnt work.. so perhaps tremors with rockfall like a cave-in is imminent?


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:22 pm

    The area should go all dark when you are invaded, EVERY torch should extinguish, the sun will black out, the darkness should spread, the area's foliage should die and the ambients should go quite or change completely.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:02 pm

    I'd be happy if they just improved the stealth, putting it back to what it was in Demon's Souls.  The whole thing with ghosting was pointless.
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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by hey its andres on Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:52 pm

    I'd honestly just like for the weather to actually influence gameplay, even if it's subtly.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by SirArchmage on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:22 pm

    Now, I thought about this a bit, and I came to the conclusion that, yes, un-announced invasions would be good for Dark Souls 2. Why? Well, I will bring up a few points.

    1.) Being human is a double-edged sword. When you are human, there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to turn an invasion into your favor by summoning phantoms. There is now two or three of you, and you can get help with the boss and help fighting the mobs. But you can also get invaded. Now instantly when people are invaded with help, the friendly phantoms will usually hide and wait for the invader in preparation to gank them. This puts the invader at a disadvantage, even if they aren't waiting then the invader is still disadvantaged. Now, this is already in the game, but it would help the invader if they could enter in stealthily. They could jump the host before anyone knew what was going on and get a kill. Some may say that this is cheap, but this is Dark Souls. Take every advantage you have.

    2.) Ambiance. Why, if someone was invading your world to kill you, would a message pop up telling you what they are doing? They aren't super-villains explaining their master plan to you - they are assassins. It would grant more realism, depth, and tension to the game if you had to rely on sounds for invasions rather then a message popping up on your screen. Some may argue about the need to rely on sound for invasions, though it is like arguing about people that use sound in Call of Duty. It is a mechanic in the game that is there for a reason. Not using it is ones own downfall. Of course, this would need some balancing and added effects. What if there was a side effect to raising a certain skill that would increase your range of hearing? Like how a side effect of increasing dexterity is raising casting speed? A ring that let you hear sounds better? Spells that created false sounds where you pointed? This could add much more to the game.

    3.) Stealth characters. For anyone that has ever made one, they know that once your target has found you and knows your general location, you are at a disadvantage. It is how they work. And your target will already know to be on the look out if they see an invasion message pop-up, and might very well just back themselves into a corner, canceling out the one advantage a stealth character would have. Some people disconnect right as they get invaded. Not having a message pop-up, we would see the come back to the stealth characters. People that disconnect will lack an easy way to simply disable the dangers of being human. Some may point out glass cannon builds that sit around a corner with a spell, ready to one-hit you with an aoe attack or push you off a ledge. We will obviously have to wait and see what spells happen in Dark Souls 2 that would make this possible, but what about the simple solution of not having spells penetrate through walls? Specifically Wrath of the Gods. If someone is on the other side of a pillar casting it, there is nothing you can do. What if that plain didn't work and you would be safe by sitting around a wall. Fire Tempest can already be avoided by just backing up through the doorway again due to how the spell works, so I don't think glass cannons will be too much of a problem. If you just do the Dark Souls tactic of paying attention to your surroundings.


    Plus, who wouldn't want to see some gankers be one-shot out of no-where from an invader they didn't see?


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by hey its andres on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:35 pm

    I love all of what you said Archie...it's just, I thought that Shibuya had noted his displeasure at how humanity functioned in DkS and wanted to remove it. Looking for a link.....I know I read it somewhere.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:48 am

    @Spellspammer happy
    I love stealth.
    When I invade someone's world, the first thing I look for are numbers. I'm not really sure why invaders can see the damage numbers dealt by and done by other players, but they can. These can immediately tell me how many other players are in the world I just invaded.
    If there are no numbers in sight, it usually means that the host either cleared the whole area, or is simply waiting for you somewhere. I only have a Stereo TV, but even so, I can use sound to pinpoint the host's general location as soon as he moves. Even without armor, I can hear host's footsteps, because no other enemy does the same sound as a player (NPCs do, but I can't hear them as a phantom). The game's not perfect and as such I can't pinpoint the host's elevation, so he can be a floor above me, or below me and I won't know which. However, I can still use the sound to ambush the host and I love tracking the host down like this. happy

    As such, I'd be happy if phantoms made sounds as well. It's strange that our gear doesn't make any sound when we walk around, but when you hit a wall with your weapon, it makes a impact sound.

    hey its andres wrote:I love all of what you said Archie...it's just, I thought that Shibuya had noted his displeasure at how humanity functioned in DkS and wanted to remove it. Looking for a link.....I know I read it somewhere.
    Are you talking about Humanity system as in the Human/Hollow form and the soft Humanity counter, or about the consumable?

    If it was up to me, I'd remove the Humanity counter and made the item one use only. Just like the Stone of Ephemeral Eyes. However I'd remove the consumables healing properties. That and leave the rest of the system as it is.

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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by SirArchmage on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:15 am

    Sentiel wrote:The game's not perfect and as such I can't pinpoint the host's elevation, so he can be a floor above me, or below me and I won't know which.
    This is the one thing I hate about Dukes Archives. It is a favorite place of mine to invade, but I will hear footsteps, and I will think "Hm, is the host on the other side of this bookshelf? Or maybe he is on the hallway above? Or the hallway above that hallway? Or maybe the hallway above that hallway?" Tad bit annoying. As well as the fact that I am pretty sure that at a certain range, it is impossible to hear the sound of someone invading. I host in the forest a lot, and it seems that if I stand on the hill, along that small ridge, and  stand on the side of the ridge that is closer to the trees then I can hear the sound of invasions on the steps near the fog gate. But if I stand on the side of the ridge that is closer to the cliff, then I cannot hear it. As well as the fact I can never hear invasions that come from the middle of the forest.

    I may try hosting with my headset on a lot higher then just 15%(Which is still pretty loud) and see how that turns out.


    I also dislike those numbers. A lot. It makes invading in places like Izalith or Blighttown very hard. As well as the fact that if you try to progress through the level while an invader is there, it is a giant signal as to where you are. The only thing I like about it is that an assassin character can, say, poison you with arrows, run away, and attack you later on when they will have a better advantage.


    P.S. I suck at stealth. A lot. In any game. I just like the thought of fighting off assassins that are coming to get me, while I have no idea where they could be.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Sentiel on Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:27 am

    The sound comes from the camera's direction. If an invasion happens behind you while your camera faces away from the spawn, then you can hear it louder than if you have your camera pointed at the spawn. The center of the players hearing is not the character, but the camera. You can use this to your advantage, by moving the camera around you and using the differences in volume of the sounds you hear to determine where the sound is coming from. However it works only horizontaly.

    In Forest. I stand at the hill with the Bandit, with my camera facing Alvina. If the invader comes from Alvina, I can see him. If he comes from one of the spawns by the entry gate, I can hear him, thanks to having the camera not pointed in that direction. And if I can't hear the invader, then he invaded near Pharis.

    I'd leave the numbers which are the damage done to a player by another player and remove the numbers which are damage done by the player and to the player by mobs.


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