Bring back un-announced invasions!

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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by SadPanda on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:46 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Its dks. Play cautiously or die terribly. DKS does not tolerate recklessness.

    As I said, it wouldn't affect griefers at all, they can grief just fine either way and there's not a lot to be done about it.

    Stealth is almost completely useless in dks pvp, and that's sad. I did predicate my assertion with "only if phantoms make noise" meaning that you would hear them coming if they had any armor worth mentioning, and if they don't they're at a huge disadvantage after that initial strike (assuming they get it) in actual combat.

     Also remember that bs's got nerfed (again)in 2 by all appearences.
    Exactly. Dark Souls was meant to make you constantly aware. But as you get better you just blast through. Hell, I can easily beat the game in around 4 hours tops. There needs to be more to make the player feel more pressured, so they're constantly aware. This is the true risk of human form. Having an unannounced invasion would be the best thing ever, for me, even from my perspective. If I'm going through the level, and all of a sudden a darkwraith is staring me down, I'd be worried. Now if I get invaded at a low SL, it's just a game of counter-BSing, and putting on my best gear if I get invaded. And that's even if I go human form.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:51 pm

    I don't go human until anor londo anymore. I generally have bb'd gear (I have several of the old school farmed mules), but I'd have to switch to it so I just don't bother.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by GrinTwist on Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:22 am

    The fact that some people can still get a stealth BS before being seen, even with the alert is enough for me. I'd be opposed to bringing this back into the game.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by SadPanda on Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:04 am

    GrinTwist wrote:The fact that some people can still get a stealth BS before being seen, even with the alert is enough for me. I'd be opposed to bringing this back into the game.
    But that would be at the fault of the player.


    Last edited by SadPanda on Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:07 am

    SadPanda wrote:
    GrinTwist wrote:The fact that some people can still get a stealth BS before being seen, even with the alert is enough for me. I'd be opposed to bringing this back into the game.
    But that would be at the fault of the character.
    Still better than never knowing there was even an invader at all.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Aevun on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:06 am

    Having maybe an ambient sound or some visual cue like crows flying in a specific formation in the sky would definitely be better than the immersion-breaking and quite blunt message system we have currently. Even in DkS1 we can tell if we're about to get a message by looking at the bonfire in the area. Having something like that but visible throughout the area would solve the problem a lot of you have with this idea.

    The game already punishes players for not paying attention, the devs might as well continue that trend.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by SadPanda on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:21 am

    Aevun wrote:
    The game already punishes players for not paying attention, the devs might as well continue that trend.
    Point Up 


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:06 am

    I'd find it acceptable if they did it sort of like the cat covenant ring, or along those lines.  For instance, perhaps when doing a stealth invasion it is impossible to heal.  Using items, nothing works.  Thus, you have to make your first hit count, make it like an actual assassin.  If you give up your position and get a hit but don't kill the other person, or miss, suddenly you are at the disadvantage.  I'd be more accepting of invasions without names then, but still I see inherent game design issues with it.  Not knowing who you are playing with(Modders, hackers), people new to the series having no understand of the multiplayer and being confused if it is isn't explained in game, the concept of glass cannon invasions being too effective anyway meaning there is no real way to counter it unless you are always incredibly cautious.  I think it would need a lot of balancing, but I'm not outright against the idea.
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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:07 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I don't go human until anor londo anymore. I generally have bb'd gear (I have several of the old school farmed mules), but I'd have to switch to it so I just don't bother.

    I go human a lot.  Only real danger of invasion at starting levels is the parish.  If you summon mildred, go into the depths, etc at SL 1-10 you're not going to get much invasion action.  It can happen sometimes, but almost never.  Exception would probably be this weekend big grin.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Animaaal on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:13 pm

    I'm ALWAYS human, and this still DOES happen.

    It may be a glitch, but it still happens.
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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by δelta on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:59 pm

    Hmm, I don't know, a minimal alert level would be nice. Like for example, the day-night circle gains a red outline if an invader is in your world instead of messages like "#*&@ has invaded". Highly annoying.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Aevun on Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:25 am

    δelta wrote:Hmm, I don't know, a minimal alert level would be nice. Like for example, the day-night circle gains a red outline if an invader is in your world instead of messages like "#*&@ has invaded". Highly annoying.

     That would still be a warning you couldn't miss unless you paid no attention to your health or stamina. A warning in the HUD is exactly the blunt type of warning with no depth that I was referring to. I think the warning should be in the environment and visible most of the time as opposed to all of the time.

    An example would be a partly ruined fortress. A little over 50% of the fort would be open to the sky and the warning message would be rainfall. This way you could still be completely surprised if you linger in a roofed area for too long.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Emergence on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:55 am

    Can we please only use down reps for posts that go against forum spirit and not for ideas we disagree with?


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:57 am

    I agree with Forum Pirate.

    Un-announced invasions are a great idea. It will definitely add to the stealth element in PvP.
    However, I believe that to ensure it is fair, such invasions should be only allowed to a specific Covenant and phantoms of all kind, should make sounds. That way, you can tell if there's someone in your world, because you'll be able to hear their footsteps.
    It won't be unfair either, because you can always tell if you're invaded, or no by dimming of certain items in hot key window and by being unable to use the Quit Game option in the games menu. You lose all of these even when you're summoned, or have a summon in your world, but that means there's already two players. Giving some head start to the lone invader, by hiding his invasion announcement can give him a good fighting chance, thanks to the element of surprise being on his side. It would also make Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring and Hush more useful than they're now.

    Emergence wrote:Can we please only use down reps for posts that go against forum spirit and not for ideas we disagree with?
    Wrong thread, wrong time, but I completely agree with you.

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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by passivefamiliar on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:09 pm

    in general I like this idea of a invasion be an invasion. You wouldn't be warned. I still strongly think covenants should be the key, or whatever system replaces it. Examples only: way of the white gets a warning. Dark wraiths don't get a warning. Dark moons only get a warning if its a dark wraith invading.

    it would create a sort of waring factions system. And make your covenant choice MUCH more interesting. 

    But iI also like the idea of the world changing, like rainfall or maybe clouds just darken everything. ...only if its tied to my idea to. Because then it'll be to noticeable after a few times and become just as obvious as the message we get now, although world changes would be more easy on the eyes.

    but imagine if each covenant had a DIFFERENT warning, if they had a warning anyway. Way of white would get a ray of light cast in the general direction of the invader(only for a moment not like a permanent spotlight). Forest hunters would hear a pack of wolves howl a warning.  Etc. It could become a much more interesting game mechanic than just, "xxxhunterdarkstalke776645rxxx has invaded your world"


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by δelta on Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:30 pm

    Aevun wrote:
     That would still be a warning you couldn't miss unless you paid no attention to your health or stamina. A warning in the HUD is exactly the blunt type of warning with no depth that I was referring to. I think the warning should be in the environment and visible most of the time as opposed to all of the time.

    An example would be a partly ruined fortress. A little over 50% of the fort would be open to the sky and the warning message would be rainfall. This way you could still be completely surprised if you linger in a roofed area for too long.

    Then they should at least implement stealth mechanics to make this sort of thing productive and to up the stakes. But there is literally no way to play stealth in DkS (Ring of Fog+Slumbering Dragoncrest is a cheap substitute)


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Emergence on Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:47 pm

    Sentiel wrote:I agree with Forum Pirate.

    Un-announced invasions are a great idea. It will definitely add to the stealth element in PvP.
    However, I believe that to ensure it is fair, such invasions should be only allowed to a specific Covenant and phantoms of all kind, should make sounds. That way, you can tell if there's someone in your world, because you'll be able to hear their footsteps.
    It won't be unfair either, because you can always tell if you're invaded, or no by dimming of certain items in hot key window and by being unable to use the Quit Game option in the games menu. You lose all of these even when you're summoned, or have a summon in your world, but that means there's already two players. Giving some head start to the lone invader, by hiding his invasion announcement can give him a good fighting chance, thanks to the element of surprise being on his side. It would also make Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring and Hush more useful than they're now.

    Emergence wrote:Can we please only use down reps for posts that go against forum spirit and not for ideas we disagree with?
    Wrong thread, wrong time, but I completely agree with you.

    This is the precise kind of thread I mean and the exact timing. I don't understand your meaning. Needs to be said. Rep isn't a popularity contest, it's about creating productive and civil conversation which is exactly what this thread does.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Silver Mont on Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:03 pm

    I'd not mind if this happened in area equivalents of the forest and dark Anor Londo, but for typical invasions? I feel like it would be a needless frustration. That said, it wouldn't bother me too much either way.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:32 pm

    E, I was pointing out on the miriad of threads with people derailing the thread after somebody, usually the OP, receives negative rep. While here, it was largely ignored and people go on with the topic at hand.

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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:21 pm

    Also, there is nothing stopping you identifying them (and blocking them) in your friends data should you find they're a hacker.

    I hear its possible, but I've yet to play with anyone I've blocked (in dks)


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Sentiel on Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:34 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:Also, there is nothing stopping you identifying them (and blocking them) in your friends data should you find they're a hacker.

    I hear its possible, but I've yet to play with anyone I've blocked (in dks)
    I can confirm that whoever I added to my Block List (PS3) couldn't play with me again in any way. No invasions, signs, nothing. Tested this as well, but it's hard to do tests like this, given the fact that DkS is kinda unreliable when it comes to connecting people.

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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Emergence on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:02 pm

    Whether or not this happens in other threads, I still fail to understand why it's wrong timing here even if it was mostly ignored. It feels a bit like an unnecessary critique of my methods when all I am trying to do is give the OP a bit of encouragement.


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by phastings on Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:29 am

    This is a great idea, and would acheive tension, I don't understand why ppl wouldn't like this.. It's dark souls, its supposed to be mean to u. Atleast have unannounced invasions in one specific area


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:52 am

    Why was E down repped?

    I understand the irony.... But just no need


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    Re: Bring back un-announced invasions!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:25 pm

    Stealth invasions for the dark wraiths? it would make sense they are there for your humanity and nothing would be more horrifying than seeing a red phantom between you and the fog door.


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