Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

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    Thor_Odinson
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    Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Thor_Odinson on Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:19 pm

    I would love for dks2 to bring back those stupid hard phantom fights from des.  Such as sasuki... Brb getting ohko'd if you make a single mistake, had unrelenting combos etc.  Even Selene and garl vinland would proper wax the floor with you if you did not use some sort of smart tactic against them. And who remembers the cleaver chick in the valley of defilement... Meanwhile iin dks I was never threatened the least bit over the npc black phantoms such as miralda or the crestfallen warriror(who dies by him?) Then there are epic people such as oscar and ricard who were a huge letdown in fighting them. Those 2 alone should have posed a serious threat. To be honest the hardest npc's were the forest gankers.  Dks 2 needs to make the in game npcs a force to be reckoned with. I want to earn my ricards rapier, not have an easy fight.

    On another note I would love for the summon animation to be changed in dks2. Instead of a red or blue character why not keep your character the same color but instead put a slight aurora or halo over them so you can actually see the characters armor combos etc.  Feels such a waste to make a kickass armor combo just to be a wall of red or blue in a hosts world.  This is a small gripe but would be really cool to see changed in the future souls game.
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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by phastings on Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:30 pm

    The cleaver chick in the valley of defilement haunts my dreams still.. lol that was one of the most nerve wracking NPC encounters ever. You could see her wandering the swamp in the distance, then when you got too close she charged which usually meant death.


    I agree that NPC fights fell short in DaS. They def need to ramp up the difficulty in DaS2, as they are supposed to be famous warriors who can hold their own and consequential griefers should you choose to engage them 

    Yea i dont understand why they changed the phantom aura from Demons to dark souls. It looked soo much better in the first game. Perhaps it was network related; more visual effects sapping networking capabilities or something like that


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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:01 pm

    In darks they were made more to be a simulation of actual invaders rather than really OP people who could one shot you- I liked that to be honest, I just think that the encounters were let down by really crappy AI.

    You're also forgetting that while they're heroes- you're a greater hero in both games. In demons you're the saviour of the world, in dark you are the successor of gwyn/ the dark lord. So honestly of you're being pedantic about it, they should stay easy.

    I think they don't need false difficulty like insane AR to be better next game, they just need smarter AI


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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:09 pm

    I'd say they should amp it up some. I just made a complaint in my ongoing story of a return to Demon's Souls about how disappointing Doran actually is in hindsight. I gave up for now after losing the first time (I've beat him in the past when I played) not because I don't think I can do it but I'm not up for the marathon session it would take with my current setup. Chipping away at 20 damage a pop is not my idea of fun.

    I know he's an extreme but Serious has a point that inflating stat values isn't a better way to do it.

    On the other hand, Dark Souls NPCs were a little flat. Better AI would help. One of the first comparisons I made after going back to Demon's was that the first Blue Eye Knight tried to fake me out with his shield. They're also a lot less predictable attacking. In general, humanoid AI seems much better in Demon's. Yurt knows how to dodge reasonably well. Black Phantom Satsuki is even better at it AND crazy aggressive when he wants to be.

    So I would pump stats up a little bit. It's disappointing taking out a Black Phantom NPC with just a few hits. But I wouldn't make them like Demon's either. Somewhere in the middle work work great for me.

    Now, the whole idea I think everyone is looking for is to have a fight that's so bad*** that your heart is hammering and your body is full on adrenaline mode if you win. I think both games had that but at different points. One or two crazy hard Black Phantoms might be a good idea. Making it the norm is a stretch though.

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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Thor_Odinson on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:01 pm

    I do agree the ar isnt what should be buffed over the top. Doran seriously made me RAGEE. Thats a little too op. However, I do think it should be fairly close to a 2-4 shot depending on armor and what you get hit by. If a skeleton with a spear nearly kills you with a combo then that legendary npc should kill you if he lands it aswell imo. The AI is what really needs to be improved. I also completely agree with skarekrow about how des had better AI on many of the humanoid characters. They seemed to have a much better move set and tactics than majority of enemies in dks. From the trailers the new AI seems to have improved so hopefully this gets addressed.

    We might be the greater hero, but that doesnt mean former hero's should be pushovers. I would like for them to atleast be as difficult as facing a red knight from des. Even If i know I can kill him in 3-4 hits he can do the same to me.
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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:31 pm

    Nah, I remember the first time I fought Kirk, made me curse like crazy.

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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Pale_Drake on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:12 pm

    They should make a invade that has two npc dark phantoms...with a little Ornstein and Smough feel to it
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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:16 pm

    Kirk and Solaire, because in my mind they are love birds.

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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by phastings on Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:33 am

    Serious_Much wrote:In darks they were made more to be a simulation of actual invaders rather than really OP people who could one shot you- I liked that to be honest, I just think that the encounters were let down by really crappy AI.

    You're also forgetting that while they're heroes- you're a greater hero in both games. In demons you're the saviour of the world, in dark you are the successor of gwyn/ the dark lord. So honestly of you're being pedantic about it, they should stay easy.

    I think they don't need false difficulty like insane AR to be better next game, they just need smarter AI
    Right, but the souls games don't grant entitlement to greatness nor should they hand out easy fights; thats more a formula for the god of war games. you have to earn that victory and become a great warrior from the undead weakling you start off as.


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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:49 am

    Yeah I was making a point since you tried to make lore reasons for why they should be hard (I mean have you seen Nito).

    Anyway like I said I'd much rather difficulty in npc fights was from good AI instead of hyper inflated AR- that's just laziness if they go down that route


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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:00 pm

    Anyone want me to tell the tragic story of my first fight against Knight Kirk?

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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Thor_Odinson on Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:35 pm

    Im up for hearing a tragic tale of your experience with kirk. twisted
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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Soul of Stray Demon on Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:15 pm

    Ok, Well, My first time through the depths, I was walking through, and had lost several of my flasks to the channeler and it's rats, I stumble upon the giant rat. After a hard fought battle, I slide down the slope, not noticing the path, I end up tumbling down into the sewer below. A basilisk attacks me, as I roll to the side I slice and kill it. I continue to make my way, and all of a sudden I get the invasion message, DARK SPIRIT KNIGHT KIRK HAS INVADED. Not knowing about npc invasions and having fought a low level invader before, I was worried that they would quickly finish me off. I rush over, and push RB as fast as I can, spamming the controller like I've never done before. Kirk, low on health, manages to stay alive till my stamina runs out. He then proceeds to take one slash at me, as I scream in pain, and fall to my knees on the very spot.

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    Re: Bring back hard phantom npc fights/ summoning changes

    Post by Thor_Odinson on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:05 pm

    lmao tragic tale indeed. I havent died by an in game npc in dark souls however... Those mother#$%^%$# silver knight dragon bow wielders really really got me on my first playthrough. At this point I had amassed a large amount of souls after defeating a darkwraith (pushed him to his death via the raptors in anor). After very careful amounts of dodging i defeat both giants and the flying creatures with spears. So here I am about to go up the path to the first large colomn (the safe zone before going to the ledge the silver knights are on) and as i proceed up the first walkway a dragonslayer arrow goes THROUGH the railing and literally knocks me out the other side. I lose all my souls. Frantically i make it all the way to my bloodstain again. I then proceed up the walkway to the ledge with the knight on the right. I dodge the first arrow just to stand up to get nailed by the other knights arrow in the back sending me flying. However, i still managed to stay on the ledge...Just for the other knight to hit me in the face with his arrow sending me off the cliff. This must have happened 20 times before I finally passed this area. aka hardest part in the entire darksouls game for me to this day lol

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