influx of new players

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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Odinbear on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:55 am

    billy_bayonet wrote:i made a level 15 toon for invading in the parish, using plus 5 weapons, with the goal of giving players a taste of how invasions change the game without being So OP you ruin the experience.

    alot of newer players not knowing how the game works have thrown accusations of me being a cheater one guy said "Hakkor you broke my estus you suck at this game go die" i messaged him and said "google lloyd's talismans" he never replied.

    What i'd like to know from you guys do you think i am being a griefer or helping these people get used to the PVP side of things against a person who's weapons are just as good as there own and have a fighting chance against me honest opinions please

    Billy, u is all good. Dark wraiths/ red invaders are supposed to invade. It's all fun & games. I don't think you are griefing, in fact, I'm not convinced there is such a thing as griefing considering the design of the game. In the DkS universe you are always going to run into someone more powerful than you, more skillfull than you and with gear you have not seen yet. ( unless you didn't play blind and used a guide to find everything). It is designed so you can be invaded by NG+++++++ players or NG players. ( only requirements are the soul level), you can also summon a NG, or a NG+++++++ player.

    By the logic put forth by the term griefing, what would it be if you (NG) summoned 2 phantoms in endgame gear to demolish a boss? Cheating?
    Hmmm.

    Keep on teaching, Billy. thumbs up


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Elifia on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:22 am

    Idea:

    -To be able to invade as a Darkwraith, you must not have killed the boss yet.
    -Indicting people does not require an item.
    -People in NG cannot be invaded by Darkwraiths in NG+ or beyond.

    Now the newbies are completely safe from OP griefers. The first rule actually has another nice effect: it makes it so that invading as a Darkwraith is punished by being able to be invaded yourself. It makes it easier to get PvP done because you won't have situations where everyone is trying to invade but there aren't enough hosts.


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:23 am

    Elifia wrote:Idea:

    -To be able to invade as a Darkwraith, you must not have killed the boss yet.
    -Indicting people does not require an item.
    -People in NG cannot be invaded by Darkwraiths in NG+ or beyond.

    Now the newbies are completely safe from OP griefers. The first rule actually has another nice effect: it makes it so that invading as a Darkwraith is punished by being able to be invaded yourself. It makes it easier to get PvP done because you won't have situations where everyone is trying to invade but there aren't enough hosts.
    This idea is exactly what I've been suggesting for a whole year now. If not longer.

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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Odinbear on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:28 am

    Tolvo wrote:To be fair, Sent didn't say there were rules. He said it was unfair, and douchebag behavior.

    If you don't care about people's feelings, or whether something is fair then both of you seem to agree.

    My point was, the design of the game allows it. Let me explain my first encounter with a red invader... The message popped up, adrenaline flew, I had no idea wtf this invasion thing was and when I died, I died quickly. & he might not have been overpowered, he might have had acquirable gear, No idea, don't care. Point being, I saw gear that I did not yet have, I saw an invader that I wanted to learn how to be or do. ( had to use an online guide to figure this out), and I got a taste of PVP.
    Dieing to the red did not turn me off to the experience, whether he was OP or Kosher did not matter.

    I have never found this game to be fair, BTW. Patches pushed me into a pit, I use my RSS and spawn to a whack-a-mole beating, I bow and host BS's me, I invade in the forest and it's 3v1, Manus hit me with Dark Magic several times b4 I figured out I needed a Silver Pendant, the Black Knights always kick my *** at low sl......
    So unfair.

    Lastly, Tolvo, I care. silly
    Sometimes I invade and dark hand duel, stealing a humanity if I can. Lol
    It's all fun and games , and only a game.


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Odinbear on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:37 am

    Sentiel wrote:Since you quoted me, you should read what I wrote again. I already answered your reply in my previous message, because I was anticipating it.

    Also, do not misinterpret my words into whatever fashion you seem to like. They were intended as I wrote them, not in any other way.

    I read, what I read and take from it what I do. No apologies. I just don't see what is supposed to be fair, when you get invaded. If you want fair, summon via RSS. And that's not even a guarantee .
    now, come here buddy, give me a hug. I'm not looking to fight.


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Horrendus on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:42 am

    You people assume the game WANTS you to ALWAYS have some form of chance... Which in my opinion it does not. Otherwise invasions would be more strict.

    It's pure chaos. Beautiful, sublime, awe-inspiring, superb Chaos!!! Joy


    Let us rejoice within it ^^ and seek not to undo its grace.


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Odinbear on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:46 am

    Maybe the influx of new players need an easy mode? Something I never got.


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Horrendus on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:47 am

    Odinbear wrote:Maybe the influx of new players need an easy mode? Something I never got.

    pffft please I bet 1/2 if not more of these "new players" at least on my console (PC) are going to Meta the hell out of the game and go straight for the master key and drake sword. I think I've seen 2-4 legit new players.....ever


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Odinbear on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:52 am

    Horrendus wrote:You people assume the game WANTS you to ALWAYS have some form of chance... Which in my opinion it does not. Otherwise invasions would be more strict.

    It's pure chaos. Beautiful, sublime, awe-inspiring, superb Chaos!!! Joy


    Let us rejoice within it ^^ and seek not to undo its grace.

    Just to be clear, I do not stand on the side that thinks this game wants you to always have a chance. lol
    I think the design is well thought out. Especially considering that In theory some NG++++++ players ( the ones that can beat the game at low sl) will have some contact with NG players and all in between if playing online. There is a form of balance going on that keeps it hard all the way through. Let us rejoice this fact.


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Odinbear on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:54 am

    Horrendus wrote:
    Odinbear wrote:Maybe the influx of new players need an easy mode? Something I never got.

    pffft please I bet 1/2 if not more of these "new players" at least on my console (PC) are going to Meta the hell out of the game and go straight for the master key and drake sword. I think I've seen 2-4 legit new players.....ever

    It 'twas a joke. Or sarcasm.
    Hug?


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:11 pm

    Horrendus wrote:You people assume the game WANTS you to ALWAYS have some form of chance... Which in my opinion it does not. Otherwise invasions would be more strict.
    Asylum Demon doesn't have infinite HP.

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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Horrendus on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:11 pm

    Odinbear wrote:
    It 'twas a joke. Or sarcasm.
    Hug?

    *hugs Odinbear*

    You're alright in my book there bud. Beckon


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Horrendus on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:12 pm

    Sentiel wrote:
    Horrendus wrote:You people assume the game WANTS you to ALWAYS have some form of chance... Which in my opinion it does not. Otherwise invasions would be more strict.
    Asylum Demon doesn't have infinite HP.

    And Seth kills you first time around. Praise the Sun


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:15 pm

    Sentiel wrote:...Prepare to die, not prepare to have no chance...

    Going in the quotes of the day.
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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:17 pm

    Horrendus wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:
    Horrendus wrote:You people assume the game WANTS you to ALWAYS have some form of chance... Which in my opinion it does not. Otherwise invasions would be more strict.
    Asylum Demon doesn't have infinite HP.

    And Seth kills you first time around. Praise the Sun
    Story related.
    Avoidable.
    Seath vulnerable afterwards. Not immortal indefinitely.

    Spoiler:


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:21 pm

    Odinbear wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:Prepare to die, not prepare to have no chance.
    Comparing a level 30 guy with endgame gear to a level 30 guy with legit gear is like having a adult fight a kid. No mattter what excuse you have, it's not fair.
    The only way to make the fight even is the location. If the said fight takes place in Kiln, then it is expected of them both to have endgame gear. If one of them doesn't, it's his own fault.
    However, if the fight takes place in Parish, then the endgame gear guy is simply put a douchebag and ruins the game for others, because they have no chance to win against him.

    So, anybody in NG+ and higher are douchebags if they invade? Hmmmm . By your definition, NG+ players are Not supposed to invade? Haha, u funny. Now don't get upset when i re-iterate, his game has no rules. And as players progress through the NG's the range of same soul leveled players will be quite varied in each area. I think it's a brilliant design for a game.

    I was invaded and killed in the early areas and my games have never been ruined. Yes I died. Did not get mad or quit. In fact, I'd say, it made me more determined to keep going.

    A sentiment NOT shared by ANYONE new to the game. You wanna turn off newer players, then do it.

    There is no difference between a low level player with "one-shot gear" and invisible whisps randomly appearing anywhere at any given time, making no sound, and blowing up randomly in your face.

    Play how you want, but just say, "Today I'm a griefer." Don't say, "But...but............".

    "...not prepare to have no chance." LOVE IT!! +1 applause

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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:27 pm

    Animaaal wrote:

    "...not prepare to have no chance." LOVE IT!! +1 applause


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Horrendus on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:30 pm

    Sentiel wrote:

    What are we even really talking about anymore? Theoretical invasion of a Full giants Chaos 2H with 99Divine Blessings invading a new player? A general twink? Hypermode+anything? I mean if we are going to get serious then get serious with your response or don't be so serious in the first place.

    This is a discussion so I guess I'm sorry for poking you with some nonsense that you obviously took the wrong way.

    This game as Odinbear said himself lets NG players mingle with NG++++++ Players. If they wanted it restrict the amount of "imbalance" they wouldn't allow this alone in the 1st place.


    PvP is supposed to be random, and yet here we are discussing problems about a herd of new players being thrown into the mixing pot and about the "balance" issues it causes with us only being a significantly small % of players of all the DarkSouls players. So it's not like EVERYONE else is just going to act responsible because we talk about it on here. If you want to "HELP" the new players then imo you have to use spoilers, which defeats the point of DarkSouls imo. So what if some OP Giant Dad you stand no chance against invades and kills you once.... O wow you died once.... like that hasn't happened before. AND IM THE CRAZY ONE!!? laughing laughing


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:32 pm


    YES

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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Horrendus on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:39 pm

    I am pleased then.


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Sentiel on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:49 pm

    Never expected you to be happy for being called crazy.
    thumbs up


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:19 pm

    @Horrendus

    I think its more a discussion about what we think balance is.

    What you are saying however, sort of implies, that FROM didn't make any mistakes when making the game and we ALL are playing it how it was meant to be played.

    A list of mistakes (or rather developmental mishaps):

    -"Gather You Friends" prerelease advertising slogan. The Demon's Souls forums tore em a new one for that.
    -The first patch? Anyone remember that?
    -They fixed the weapon scaling.
    -They shrunk the backstab hitbox in Dark Souls, thinking that would fix the problem while implementing a p2p system. I think we all know why they're going back to a server based system.
    -etc

    Now with that said, I think Dark Souls was a HUGE step forward in the series and I lost some friends in the Demon's Souls forums for being vocal about it.

    The game could be better and more balanced, that is all. Bow
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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by CephGabriel on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:36 pm

    Back to the OP, I had a player today who constantly kept on invading me in the forest, and every time he got to low health (I'm SL 20 ish making a new build) he just suicided of the cliff. that and he shield turtled and got confused when I kicked him Look Skyward


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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Odinbear on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:21 pm

    Animaaal wrote:@Horrendus

    I think its more a discussion about what we think balance is.

    What you are saying however, sort of implies, that FROM didn't make any mistakes when making the game and we ALL are playing it how it was meant to be played.

    A list of mistakes (or rather developmental mishaps):

    -"Gather You Friends" prerelease advertising slogan. The Demon's Souls forums tore em a new one for that.
    -The first patch? Anyone remember that?
    -They fixed the weapon scaling.
    -They shrunk the backstab hitbox in Dark Souls, thinking that would fix the problem while implementing a p2p system. I think we all know why they're going back to a server based system.
    -etc

    Now with that said, I think Dark Souls was a HUGE step forward in the series and I lost some friends in the Demon's Souls forums for being vocal about it.

    The game could be better and more balanced, that is all. Bow

    I think it is as balanced as possible considering the sl of players that interact. Note FROM only fixed/patched OP weapons and spells and some other fight issues, as they came to light when the general population started PVPing. ... One of the ways to fix, ( although I do not see it as "broken") the don't abuse the new players game, has been mentioned. But then your just making NG the EZ mode relative to the concurrent playthroughs. IMO , it's the whack-a-mole sub game that needs fixing. :> What I'd like to see is less hacking/modding UNLESS we all have the approved editor included in the game. 99 divine blessings ? That's a cheat IMO. Hacking/modding your toon then invading is griefing, anywhere in the game ( and since your a cheater ) I would call this unfair. Everything else is valid. (my opinion)
    How it could be is this, NG+. Grave lording BPs are more effective at being infective. NG++. You gain another " ability" in one or more of the covenants to wreck havoc on someone else's game. Same for each NG., which would make it progressively harder each playthrough. (and more fun). This game is about being hard, not making it easier. Then NG is the Ez one since you could be invaded by NG+'s and higher But not by BP's.
    Praise the Sun!


    Animaaal, only thing I quoted and responded to your post was the balanced comment. The rest... Got carried away. :>




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    Re: influx of new players

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:19 pm

    Mmmmm...I don't think FROM tried to make a game that made you say,

    "Oh, invaded at soul level 15...guy has Black Knight Armor (insert other end game stuff), I'm just gonna sit my controller down and go pee. I'll farm later I guess."

    I think they intended for the game to make you say,

    "Oh %$#@, gotta watch my back now."

    I'll say this again just to clarify, I don not care if you twink me. I'll either go get a beer, throw dung pies, "Look skyward", etcetcetc. I do not care in the slightest. I will however, call you a twink because that's what you are, and me and my buds on Skype will make fun of you. Shrug

    My point is I think there were a couple "mishaps" FROM did not expect. And imo, they've done a SPECTACULAR job of trying to correct it and get it right. Dark Souls 2 will either be the best souls game to date, or the worst.

    Whatever the case may be, it will be clear which one it is.

    done with off topic, sorry billy.


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