Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

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    ChizFreak
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    Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:31 pm

    -Official Warcry of the Space Marines Blood Ravens Chapter

    Translation: Don't reveal all PvP techniques/tricks silly (ravioli step, etc.)


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by Jodecho on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:41 pm

    cool thread
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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:44 pm

    I'm against that. The forum is a center of knowledge. I believe this a valuable perk for those who are members, even lurkers. Since I consider the forum to be a strong community, why not share every trick, strategy and technique? It can only benefit us.


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:48 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:I'm against that. The forum is a center of knowledge. I believe this a valuable perk for those who are members, even lurkers. Since I consider the forum to be a strong community, why not share every trick, strategy and technique? It can only benefit us.

    The more people know you can counter Pursuers with Hidden Body the more easier will be to find people that do so (making things harder for Pursuers users) and more easier for people expect you to do that and thus prepare alternative methods to Pursuers. This is just an example of how knowledge is power and drastically affects metagame. The less people know, the better for me, most people won't know they can do it when I use Pursuers, and most guys won't expect it to have any effect when they blindly charge against me.

    And I'm talking about specific tricks, not actual gameplay mechanics. What I said it's a trick, not something "everyone must know or they don't fully understand the game".

    Everyone knows Ravioli Step (neutral dodge) works in PvP, but most people discard it because they see it's too difficult to use, making a video showing how to ravioli backstab, that's when you're telling too much.

    PS: Nothing wrong with talking between friends. But telling everyone in a super-public way...

    PS 2: Just to let everyone know, I don't use Pursuers silly, I basically don't use any magic that requires INT past 18. It was just an example.


    Last edited by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:55 pm

    I can see Chiz's point. I remember seeing a major upswing in Host Basin jumping after this forum started rallying around it.

    On the flip side, it's fun to share.

    I would say, if you have a super secret trick that you wanna keep go ahead and keep it. I've actually held back a few things here and there that I didn't want to break out.

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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:57 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:I can see Chiz's point. I remember seeing a major upswing in Host Basin jumping after this forum started rallying around it.

    On the flip side, it's fun to share.

    I would say, if you have a super secret trick that you wanna keep go ahead and keep it. I've actually held back a few things here and there that I didn't want to break out.

    That's what I mean.


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by Jodecho on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:05 pm

    odds are the secret that your holding onto someone else has shared somewhere else. you might be slowing the spread of information but your not stoping it. i figured out the ring of fog / pursuers not long after AotA appeared. ya know how many times ive used RoF in pvp? zero. also just because your shareing something doesnt mean everyone is gonna jump on it and run it into the ground. lots of people come to forums looking for information. if people stopped shairing then whats the point?
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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:12 pm

    Jodecho wrote:odds are the secret that your holding onto someone else has shared somewhere else. you might be slowing the spread of information but your not stoping it. i figured out the ring of fog / pursuers not long after AotA appeared. ya know how many times ive used RoF in pvp? zero. also just because your shareing something doesnt mean everyone is gonna jump on it and run it into the ground. lots of people come to forums looking for information. if people stopped shairing then whats the point?

    I didn't say we should stop sharing information, I said that we shouldn't reveal all the "tricks" of PvP. Everyone should have some secrets, some tactics, that help you be a better player, that your opponent isn't expecting you to do.

    And the thing about RoF and Hidden Body has been technically since launch. At launch RoF made you un-lockable to players (but it was removed in a following patch), besides making Homing Soulmass and HCSM not to trigger.


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ExecutionerTri on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:19 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    Jodecho wrote:odds are the secret that your holding onto someone else has shared somewhere else. you might be slowing the spread of information but your not stoping it. i figured out the ring of fog / pursuers not long after AotA appeared. ya know how many times ive used RoF in pvp? zero. also just because your shareing something doesnt mean everyone is gonna jump on it and run it into the ground. lots of people come to forums looking for information. if people stopped shairing then whats the point?

    I didn't say we should stop sharing information, I said that we shouldn't reveal all the "tricks" of PvP. Everyone should have some secrets, some tactics, that help you be a better player, that your opponent isn't expecting you to do.

    And the thing about RoF and Hidden Body has been technically since launch. At launch RoF made you un-lockable to players (but it was removed in a following patch), besides making Homing Soulmass and HCSM not to trigger.

    agreed on the tactics but spamming an overpowered magic isnt a real tactic, you want to use tactics try to vary the moveset you use and mix in multiple weapons while throwing some magic in the mix. Pursuers + the cleric head thing is not a tactic (neither is a spear .....)


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:22 pm

    ExecutionerTri wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:
    Jodecho wrote:odds are the secret that your holding onto someone else has shared somewhere else. you might be slowing the spread of information but your not stoping it. i figured out the ring of fog / pursuers not long after AotA appeared. ya know how many times ive used RoF in pvp? zero. also just because your shareing something doesnt mean everyone is gonna jump on it and run it into the ground. lots of people come to forums looking for information. if people stopped shairing then whats the point?

    I didn't say we should stop sharing information, I said that we shouldn't reveal all the "tricks" of PvP. Everyone should have some secrets, some tactics, that help you be a better player, that your opponent isn't expecting you to do.

    And the thing about RoF and Hidden Body has been technically since launch. At launch RoF made you un-lockable to players (but it was removed in a following patch), besides making Homing Soulmass and HCSM not to trigger.

    agreed on the tactics but spamming an overpowered magic isnt a real tactic, you want to use tactics try to vary the moveset you use and mix in multiple weapons while throwing some magic in the mix. Pursuers + the cleric head thing is not a tactic (neither is a spear .....)

    I don't agree. And I already clarified I don't use Pursuers anyway. I don't believe anything is Overpowered, well, maybe Dark Bead should have a little longer casting time but still it's not OP.

    And you're just mad because I killed you with my spear silly (seriously though, saying "X" weapon it's not a tactic is plain dumb).


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ExecutionerTri on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:27 pm

    ChizFreak wrote:
    ExecutionerTri wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:
    Jodecho wrote:odds are the secret that your holding onto someone else has shared somewhere else. you might be slowing the spread of information but your not stoping it. i figured out the ring of fog / pursuers not long after AotA appeared. ya know how many times ive used RoF in pvp? zero. also just because your shareing something doesnt mean everyone is gonna jump on it and run it into the ground. lots of people come to forums looking for information. if people stopped shairing then whats the point?

    I didn't say we should stop sharing information, I said that we shouldn't reveal all the "tricks" of PvP. Everyone should have some secrets, some tactics, that help you be a better player, that your opponent isn't expecting you to do.

    And the thing about RoF and Hidden Body has been technically since launch. At launch RoF made you un-lockable to players (but it was removed in a following patch), besides making Homing Soulmass and HCSM not to trigger.

    agreed on the tactics but spamming an overpowered magic isnt a real tactic, you want to use tactics try to vary the moveset you use and mix in multiple weapons while throwing some magic in the mix. Pursuers + the cleric head thing is not a tactic (neither is a spear .....)

    I don't agree. And I already clarified I don't use Pursuers anyway. I don't believe anything is Overpowered, well, maybe Dark Bead should have a little longer casting time but still it's not OP.

    And you're just mad because I killed you with my spear silly (seriously though, saying "X" weapon it's not a tactic is plain dumb).

    lol! you got me on the spear thing


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by Hydreigon11 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:29 pm

    I think, why the hell not? We come on this forum to procure information, it's like if you went through the whole of PvP without learning roll BS's or setup parries, it just makes for bad opponents. I'd rather meet my opponent on the same grounds with the same knowledge, so it is a battle of skill rather than a battle of who knows more. It's not war or anything serious, it's a game and I play games to have fun and I don't find it fun stomping people who don't know how to PvP.


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:30 pm

    ExecutionerTri wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:
    ExecutionerTri wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:
    Jodecho wrote:odds are the secret that your holding onto someone else has shared somewhere else. you might be slowing the spread of information but your not stoping it. i figured out the ring of fog / pursuers not long after AotA appeared. ya know how many times ive used RoF in pvp? zero. also just because your shareing something doesnt mean everyone is gonna jump on it and run it into the ground. lots of people come to forums looking for information. if people stopped shairing then whats the point?

    I didn't say we should stop sharing information, I said that we shouldn't reveal all the "tricks" of PvP. Everyone should have some secrets, some tactics, that help you be a better player, that your opponent isn't expecting you to do.

    And the thing about RoF and Hidden Body has been technically since launch. At launch RoF made you un-lockable to players (but it was removed in a following patch), besides making Homing Soulmass and HCSM not to trigger.

    agreed on the tactics but spamming an overpowered magic isnt a real tactic, you want to use tactics try to vary the moveset you use and mix in multiple weapons while throwing some magic in the mix. Pursuers + the cleric head thing is not a tactic (neither is a spear .....)

    I don't agree. And I already clarified I don't use Pursuers anyway. I don't believe anything is Overpowered, well, maybe Dark Bead should have a little longer casting time but still it's not OP.

    And you're just mad because I killed you with my spear silly (seriously though, saying "X" weapon it's not a tactic is plain dumb).

    lol! you got me on the spear thing

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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:39 pm

    Hydreigon11 wrote:I think, why the hell not? We come on this forum to procure information, it's like if you went through the whole of PvP without learning roll BS's or setup parries, it just makes for bad opponents. I'd rather meet my opponent on the same grounds with the same knowledge, so it is a battle of skill rather than a battle of who knows more. It's not war or anything serious, it's a game and I play games to have fun and I don't find it fun stomping people who don't know how to PvP.

    I don't agree. Knowledge and Skill are both key points of the game. Also Skill requires knowledge in the first place, so don't revealing all secrets grants those people advantages, that aren't unfair, because they aren't cheating, they are using game mechanics, if you don't know that technique, then you need more practice and/or experience (practice + experience = Skill + Knowledge).


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by FattyOfDoom on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:05 pm

    I can understand where you're coming from, and i can see you have haters. While knowledge is power, isn't it good that you can share it with the ones that are your friends? So that they can counter things that they hate because they worked as a community?


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by LunarFog on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:15 pm

    That's tricky. As an underhanded, selfish person myself, I found myself in the same predicament before. "Should I keep my information to myself, or share it on these forums?"

    The more I thought about it the more I realized: if you don't share it, sooner or later someone else will discover it and share it, using the knowledge only speeds up the process of someone discovering it for themselves, and not using the knowledge you worked so hard to gain doesn't stop the process.

    You can either keep it to yourself for a fleeting moment until someone else takes it, or you can share it as soon as you discover it and gain all the credit.

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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:24 pm

    This isn't the sith empire.



    There are to many "tricks" for anybody to be prepared for all of them all the time, and none of them take more that 10 minuites to teach someone with some pvp experience. Where skill comes in is determining which tricks they're not properly prepared for, and when they're not prepared to defend themselves against them and exploiting that knowledge.

    Thats the real power. Kick+gc doesn't win fights, knowing when to do it wins fights.


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:33 pm

    I think Chiz is saying more "not everyone needs to know every little thing I do." Not necessarily tips like "wog reflects x"

    As an example I'll use the duels I had with him. I don't hide my equipment. Everyone can see I use a great scythe, bloodshield, black iron and usually miracles. You might even know the p. Dagger is my backup. I tout effective spacing and stamina use, aka a defensive style. Sounds like a lot? Not enough? OK, I use lemon buff, wog, great heal and sometimes crystal soul spear (I have a couple fast swap items).

    Even with all that out there, only Chiz and a couple others can actually tell how I fight. Why? I don't tell you every thing I do for spacing. Or what cut off I use stamina wise if I think I'll need to Dodge or block. There's always some things that each warrior keeps.

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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:36 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:I think Chiz is saying more "not everyone needs to know every little thing I do." Not necessarily tips like "wog reflects x"

    As an example I'll use the duels I had with him. I don't hide my equipment. Everyone can see I use a great scythe, bloodshield, black iron and usually miracles. You might even know the p. Dagger is my backup. I tout effective spacing and stamina use, aka a defensive style. Sounds like a lot? Not enough? OK, I use lemon buff, wog, great heal and sometimes crystal soul spear (I have a couple fast swap items).

    Even with all that out there, only Chiz and a couple others can actually tell how I fight. Why? I don't tell you every thing I do for spacing. Or what cut off I use stamina wise if I think I'll need to Dodge or block. There's always some things that each warrior keeps.

    Yes, you seem to be the only one who got it lol, everyone seems to be taking what I said literally and to extreme.

    And LunarFog, while I think you're right (everything gets discovered sooner or later [though there are exceptions]), as I said, that point where only you know it, that the point where you have the power, thus, the phrase, "Knowledge is Power, Guard it well", because that edge of information you have over your opponent may give you the victory.


    In this era of information and internet most people can't even have secrets, and that's what I'm encouraging to change.


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:45 pm

    I couldn't tell you all that stuff anyways, I fight on instinct. (or intuition, if you prefer)



    I take everything literally btw.


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by Sloth9230 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:49 pm

    Knowledge is power? false. Dark Bead is Power... at least against people who haven't leaned how to dodge it silly

    Edit: Nobody saw the spelling mistake, and nobody see's the contradiction that's still there. Got it?


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:00 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:Knowledge is power? false. Dark Bead is Power... at least against people who haven't leaned how to dodge it silly

    Edit: Nobody saw the spelling mistake, and nobody see's the contradiction that's still there. Got it?

    It's pretty obvious actually silly


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by AzureTear on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:52 pm

    This point has probably been brought up, knowledge is power, but your never going to get people who want to share information not too, and it's cool if you want to keep it to yourself, but encouraging players actively not help each other get better is a bit off.
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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:04 pm

    AzureTear wrote:This point has probably been brought up, knowledge is power, but your never going to get people who want to share information not too, and it's cool if you want to keep it to yourself, but encouraging players actively not help each other get better is a bit off.

    I don't think* (key word) Chiz is telling us not to help each other but not publicly share every glitch, method and tactic that can be viewed negatively by some and seen as a cheap way to get rid of you without much skill, or focus. Though Lunar is right that it will be exposed by someone, but think of it like this: Would you want to be the one taking credit for telling something that makes PvP a pain to those who fight "fair"* (being a flexiable definition)?

    On a realistic not we have pm and other means to share to each other and not feed the troubling lurkers something to exploit.


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    Re: Knowledge is Power, Guard it well.

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:30 pm

    I agree with keeping certain things to yourself. Some things I do are so simple that I just don't want everyone else effectively using them on me. Most of my "strategies" are actually mindsets and playstyles - I only keep them in mind while fighting and wing it from there.

    I've shared some things that I consider the most important to my success on this forum, but it seems as if they go unnoticed anyway. Shrug

    The best way to beat the meta is to stay one (or more) step ahead of the meta. How else would someone stay ahead if your tactics became part of the meta?


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