What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

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    Elysion
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    What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by Elysion on Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:08 am

    I'm grabbing some of my information from the Dark Souls wiki, but all this talk about the pendant has gotten me quite interested in it. My post won't talk about it directly, but there are few things I would like to know first.

    I'm obviously going to be spoiling things, but I'm going to assume you already knew that.

    I would first like to start off by asking, how does one turn "Hollow"? There are many characters you meet in the game and at one point will turn into the bad guy and try to kill you. Is this ever explained why/how they do this?

    My second question is, when you talk to Griggs of Vinheim about Reah, he will tell you that she is after a Flame of Kindling. I can only assume that this is talking about a Fire Keeper Soul. Does it ever explain why she's after one of these?

    What happens if you kill Petrus while Reah is at the Undead Church, and never buy all her Miracles?
    What happens if you leave the Fire Keeper Soul on the altar where Reah prays at?
    Is it possible to offer a Fire Keeper's Soul to Reah?
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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by berkut on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:12 am

    Based off of information I have gleaned from reading the wiki for a while and from playing the game, I can take a guess at some of your questions.

    Note that Reah is after the Rite of Kindling, the thing you get from Pinwheel that allows you to kindle bonfires beyond 10 estus flasks.

    It has been suggested that Reah was after the Rite of Kindling as part of a pilgrimage. Although it has been suggested that this could be a suicide run that Reah was sent on due to her being undead (which is unaccepted within the Way of the White members of Allfather Lloyd's undead hunters).

    It is possible that individuals go hollow when reached with perceived nigh impossible odds with the resulting despair. Such as with Reah when she feels powerless after not protecting her guards, or the crestfallen warrior being extremely depressed. Though this doesn't seem as likely for all of the characters.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by JY4answer on Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:41 pm

    Some say they stayed undead too long, lost their mind, and are hence hollow. Or perhaps losing their mind over an obsession. Or dying too many times. There really isn't much explanation as to what's undead to start with. Simply not dying? What about burning them? Slicing them up and eating them like maneaters? Obviously they will die from these, but what do they NOT die from?

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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by Elysion on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:05 pm

    I'm not quite sure how to form my question here, but when you start the game, you are a hollow, correct? Later on you obtain some Humanity and you can use it to reverse your Hollowing. What would you be considered then?
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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by berkut on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:16 am

    That is difficult to say, you see, when npc's go hollow, they appear much as your character does when you die. However, when you are 'dead' the crestfallen warrior says that you are 'practically hollow', but the way he says it suggests that you are not fully hollow yet. Also, note that all hollows seem to have an uncontrollable aggressive streak, while you do not, again suggesting that your character never goes hollow.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by Emergence on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:19 am

    What has bugged me lately with Reah is that she was after the Rite of Kindling, which Pinwheel has. But we encounter her in the Tomb of Giants. So they made it past Pinwheel, but did not obtain the Rite?


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:54 am

    Emergence wrote:What has bugged me lately with Reah is that she was after the Rite of Kindling, which Pinwheel has. But we encounter her in the Tomb of Giants. So they made it past Pinwheel, but did not obtain the Rite?
    or they did and offered their own humanity and so went hollow?


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by Emergence on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:02 am

    Nevermind, they don't head out until you've killed Pinwheel.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:31 am

    Still, they do seem to walk right by Pinwheel. I write it off as the same reason Ostrava seems to beat you to every level in World 1 even though you are always the first person to walk through the door after beating each boss...and how he gets past the ****ing BLUE DRAGON


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by Kyubi-Nick on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:49 am

    Acidic_Cook discussed this in his topic a bit, I believe.

    I think the conclusion that was reached is that one goes hollow when they fail in what they believe in or truly strive for. While I'm sure it also occurs from repeated death and loss of humanity, I believe this is the cause for the more immediate Hollowings.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by Elysion on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:55 am

    So what happens if the Chosen Undead fails his/her quest?
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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by berkut on Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:40 am

    That one is tough Elysion. I suppose one could say he could go hollow, though as that is impossible within the context of the game it is difficult to say for certain. Another way to look at it could be that one of the two endings constitutes him/her failing in their quest, though that involves personal opinion on if one of the two endings is the improper ending.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by SilenceOfKnights on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:49 pm

    berkut wrote:That one is tough Elysion. I suppose one could say he could go hollow, though as that is impossible within the context of the game it is difficult to say for certain. Another way to look at it could be that one of the two endings constitutes him/her failing in their quest, though that involves personal opinion on if one of the two endings is the improper ending.
    i say both ending is improper.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by User on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:53 pm

    SilenceOfKnights wrote:
    berkut wrote:That one is tough Elysion. I suppose one could say he could go hollow, though as that is impossible within the context of the game it is difficult to say for certain. Another way to look at it could be that one of the two endings constitutes him/her failing in their quest, though that involves personal opinion on if one of the two endings is the improper ending.
    i say both ending is improper.

    I conquer.

    They are both improper. I would rather not pick any of them, and rather live in the world of Chaos and Disparity, than to choose to make a choice that would destroy either humanity or the undead (the flame or the dark ending, in ordered form). I would prefer an ending of the Sunlight. It would be what the God of War and Gwyn would want. Order. The Dark Lord Endings is... questionable, at best. I feel it is a scheme for the Dragons to arise, or for death to prosper. Hard to say. The flame ending is unquestionably bad, and not needed as of why for such change.
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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:46 pm

    Isn't it just dying that causes a character to go Hollow?


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by berkut on Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:48 pm

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:Isn't it just dying that causes a character to go Hollow?

    As I stated earlier, I don't think so, every other hollow we have seen is ruthelessly violent to all non-hollows and monsters.

    But when you die, your character is not, so either you are not hollow yet, or you are somehow able to be hollow while resisting the spiral into insanity.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:00 pm

    Yeah, on the old forum there was a big debate about Hollowing and actually turning Hollow.

    Your character never turns Hollow, but begins 'Hollowing' when you die. Your skin is purple, and thus always has some sort of pigmentation to it, whereas the true Hollows are like gross and brown.

    I think a point of the game, though, is that you are ****ing nuts even if you're in Human form.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by SilenceOfKnights on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:17 pm

    i find it funny nobody thinks about the time disorder thing that may be the cause of the existence of the loop (aka new game plus).
    remember the fact that the devs said that the pendant reveals itself in multiple playthrough.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:21 pm

    I actually find it funny that people think the Pendant has a secret to it.

    If you pay attention, the Director merely recommended taking the Pendant. He has never actually claimed it to do anything/hold any secrets.

    But that's a convo for a different thread...


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by berkut on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:24 pm

    SilenceOfKnights wrote:i find it funny nobody thinks about the time disorder thing that may be the cause of the existence of the loop (aka new game plus).
    remember the fact that the devs said that the pendant reveals itself in multiple playthrough.

    That is actually a cool idea for explaining how your character can redo the game happy. The game does say that time is distorted in Lordran after all.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by SilenceOfKnights on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:42 pm

    berkut wrote:
    SilenceOfKnights wrote:i find it funny nobody thinks about the time disorder thing that may be the cause of the existence of the loop (aka new game plus).
    remember the fact that the devs said that the pendant reveals itself in multiple playthrough.

    That is actually a cool idea for explaining how your character can redo the game happy. The game does say that time is distorted in Lordran after all.
    it is curious why it would though.
    maybe is it cause there is force trying to retain you because you are the pygmy or because the pygmy thinks you made the wrong choice


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by Elysion on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:51 pm

    So has anyone tried playing the game without actually using your humanity?

    Staying undead for the entire game.
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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:55 pm

    Elysion wrote:So has anyone tried playing the game without actually using your humanity?

    Staying undead for the entire game.

    Or conversely, a no estus run?

    I bet both do nothing!


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by SilenceOfKnights on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:57 pm

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:
    Elysion wrote:So has anyone tried playing the game without actually using your humanity?

    Staying undead for the entire game.

    Or conversely, a no estus run?

    I bet both do nothing!
    im sorry to say but that is stupid.
    how you would actualy defeat the game,it just dosen't make sense from the game design point.


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    Re: What makes someone turn Hollow? Also, Flame of Kindling and Reah.

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:59 pm

    SilenceOfKnights wrote:
    how you would actualy defeat the game,it just dosen't make sense from the game design point.

    Only use Humanity.


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