Strength builds

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    martyrsbrigade99
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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by martyrsbrigade99 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:48 pm

    Ghadis_God wrote:I never mentioned the dwgr as a way to stack poise, I said that if he's going to be mid rolling he might as well put on as much poise as he can so he can trade hits, or try for fast roll with only 53.

    I never said that you did.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by RANT on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:56 pm

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:The thing with the speed nerf, and that same guy who did the Heavy Knight video has a test of. The speed nerf is only to the recovery speed of the r1, you can still chain a stunlock by doing r2-r1 combos. Its obviously a little more difficult then just r1-r1-r1, but it's still completely viable from what ive seen. I still need to try everything for myself, but those videos seem to suggest that the r2 is the same.

    I actually think that greatshields are going to be a lot more useful come the DLC patch, cause i think all that confusion about light weapons bouncing off shields only applys to greatshields(and the iron round shield). From what i can tell katana r1s don't bounce off though, really can't wait for the 23rd so i can test everything im curious about for myself.

    that is exactly what im kinda pissed about, that extra recovery time is gonna make it easier to roll bs people tha use gs' which is kinda stupid imo. also waht is up with katanas beign faster now? wtf FROM really should do what they used to do and never patch anything and just leave their games the way they are. from what i have experienced the 1h r1 of the halberds do bounce off greatshields and i dont know about the rest of the weapons.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by RANT on Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:58 pm

    martyrsbrigade99 wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:@martyr but no one mentioned the dwgr, whenver people say fast roll it means fast roll not flip since everyone is doing fast roll builds since the dwgr is getting nerfed really soon. i know what a roll bs'er is and you should know from playing in the burg that roll bs is the only thin gmost people do, good ro bad is there to stay. and yes i know that some people got it cause they wanted to play the new content right away but not a lot and by judging byt the way most people played it looks like they're still getting used to pvp on pc, i couldnt believe when people didnt bs you when you left your bak open for a bs.

    All I can say is everyone is not into fishing.

    lol maybe not right now but thwy will be and its gonna be the burg al over again but on pc. you can actually se it happening on a video someone posted here where they did nothing but bs and then one of the guys that fouhght him again did nothing but bs instead of showing skill like he did the first time, its kinda funny.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:09 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:
    martyrsbrigade99 wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:@martyr but no one mentioned the dwgr, whenver people say fast roll it means fast roll not flip since everyone is doing fast roll builds since the dwgr is getting nerfed really soon. i know what a roll bs'er is and you should know from playing in the burg that roll bs is the only thin gmost people do, good ro bad is there to stay. and yes i know that some people got it cause they wanted to play the new content right away but not a lot and by judging byt the way most people played it looks like they're still getting used to pvp on pc, i couldnt believe when people didnt bs you when you left your bak open for a bs.

    All I can say is everyone is not into fishing.

    lol maybe not right now but thwy will be and its gonna be the burg al over again but on pc. you can actually se it happening on a video someone posted here where they did nothing but bs and then one of the guys that fouhght him again did nothing but bs instead of showing skill like he did the first time, its kinda funny.

    You are really into roll bsing and the idea that roll bsing is what reigns supreme as the main tactic in the Dark Souls community of PvPers.. but it isn't. Granted, atm it's all bs fishing on the ps3 but thats simply due to the fact that a majority of players are using the PC. It's all Japs.. Regardless, i've gotten MANY good matches in the burg against players that DON'T backstab and that DON'T stunlock and play with legitimite strategies isntead of pulling peice of **** moves. It's simple, every game has the children who don't care to learn to play, but thinkthey're good playing cheaply and patheticly, it's true in EVERY online game, but it isn't the majority of the community and with that, there are always ways to counter those cheap players... You may not want to play as a med rolling strength build, maybe you aren't good enough because you haven't practiced slow builds, or maybe you just don't like the idea? But it works if you're effective with it, which practice makes you.. Like I said before, i've played in the burg with a med roll strength build with 59 poise and I never got roll bsed... even by the people who don't do anything but try.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by RANT on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:25 pm

    i use roll bs as an example since you see it A LOT in the burg, i actually think bs in general is such a broken mechanic because of lag that i never use it unless used against me. i would say one out of ten people do not bs in the burg and getting bsed or countering bsed nine time and only have a really good fight once doesnt seem like much fun to me, its just boring. also i have a lot of experience with med rollers since i have all kinds of str since i use them exclusively. i tried dex build but they're boring imo.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:27 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:i use roll bs as an example since you see it A LOT in the burg, i actually think bs in general is such a broken mechanic because of lag that i never use it unless used against me. i would say one out of ten people do not bs in the burg and getting bsed or countering bsed nine time and only have a really good fight once doesnt seem like much fun to me, its just boring. also i have a lot of experience with med rollers since i have all kinds of str since i use them exclusively. i tried dex build but they're boring imo.

    While I disagree with you about dex builds, it is true you see roll bsing a lot in the burg. But go play call of duty and tell me how many pathetic little children you find or halo. Games with big online communities have a lot of pathetic little kids. It's a fact of life, just gotta deal with it. I hate fighting them, so I heal and sit in a hornet and parry their every move and then block them or just run off a cliff. If you don't like it, don't do it. Plain and simple..

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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:33 pm

    martyrsbrigade99 wrote:
    Ghadis_God wrote:I never mentioned the dwgr as a way to stack poise, I said that if he's going to be mid rolling he might as well put on as much poise as he can so he can trade hits, or try for fast roll with only 53.

    I never said that you did.
    I was one of the people who suggested early in the thread that he should use more poise or not Mid roll, your comment about the dwgr was about those people, hence me by extension.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by RANT on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:41 pm

    you make it seem like i cant deal with bs in general, i can counter it almost every time(except when its really laggy) but im trying to say that its so boring just doing it all the time that it ruins the whole experience for some people and newbies as well since as soon as they see that they learn how to do it and do nothing but that. it feels like youre fighting the same guy and i dont find that fun. also healing just makes it worse, much like bs'ing the more people heal the more people will do it and it just snow balls from there.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:46 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:you make it seem like i cant deal with bs in general, i can counter it almost every time(except when its really laggy) but im trying to say that its so boring just doing it all the time that it ruins the whole experience for some people and newbies as well since as soon as they see that they learn how to do it and do nothing but that. it feels like youre fighting the same guy and i dont find that fun. also healing just makes it worse, much like bs'ing the more people heal the more people will do it and it just snow balls from there.

    I didn't mean you couldn't handle it, I wouldn't except that little of anybody on the forums or twitch :p i'm saying that in the normal enviorment there will be a lot of those, I see it as players who haven't evolved :p I used to be like them, but now i'm.. well.. good . I said this many times before, if you don't want to fight them, don't.. Simple as that. If you want good fights then COME TO *** TWITCH.TV, we welcome good players .


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:26 pm

    The point of a tank is not to roll thats like watching a space marine do the worm.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:42 pm

    Why is this a big thing guys? You're not helping it either mayrtr.

    The point of the reccommendations was to point out that if you are mid rolling anyways you may as well make the best of it and stack serious poise, while if you're staying at 53 poise then you're *probably* better off fast rolling to take advantade of your *relatively* light armor (at least if you chose the more efficent possible setups.)

    Its not that it can't be done, its that its generally an inefficent way to do things.



    As a dedicated str weapon user, you can say that new players are more skilled than bs fishers all you'd like but that doesn't mean it doesn't take more skill with str weapons to actually deal with roll bs fishers, which was his point.

    I also watched the marytr video, and I have to agree with rant in general, its very different in the burg and all those r2s and locked on attacks would have just gotten you 0hko'd by 2/3rds of the burg population. STR weapons are indeed viable, but the showcase misrepresents why and how they are viable by pitting them against a good many players who refused to or ddn't know how to punish them properly. A few did, but most didn't.

    again, I agree that they are viable, but as a dedicated user I have to say that if one is going to mid roll one should probably make the most of it and stack as much poise as possible, while if one is stopping at 53 fastrolling is probably a better option due to the underwhelming defenses and/or the heavy end requirement to fast roll with str weapons.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:58 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOA-XJJiK4&feature=plcp


    Katana speed was not buffed, just another false rumor.
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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by RANT on Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:06 am

    yay!! i gotta sto believing everything everyone says about the patch(dlc).


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:03 pm

    I seriously do believe that the DWGR shouldn't have been in the game.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by RANT on Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:07 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:I seriously do believe that the DWGR shouldn't have been in the game.

    i think it shouldve been -25% since the beginnning so that it is something cool and not an unbalanced ring for pvp.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:19 am

    RantFromRant wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:I seriously do believe that the DWGR shouldn't have been in the game.

    i think it shouldve been -25% since the beginnning so that it is something cool and not an unbalanced ring for pvp.

    It's kind of unbalanced regardless because anybody who wears it just mashes that O button haha. Nearly impossible to hit them if they're katana users (which everybody uses atm, sadly). The extra frames just make anything but ninja flip or fast roll completely useless and because they nerfed stunlock to a non-existant level nobody will ever need more than 31 poise, which is super simple to get 25% with 31 poise sad


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by reim0027 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:25 am

    Without putting in more hyper armor, Str weapons just got more challenging, and Dex weapons got stronger. But, Kats are pretty easy to counter: a good shield. Plus the roll R1 with weapons like the Zwei can be good since they will outreach kats. Don't forget GC for when they get all pokey-pokey.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:45 am

    reim0027 wrote:Without putting in more hyper armor, Str weapons just got more challenging, and Dex weapons got stronger. But, Kats are pretty easy to counter: a good shield. Plus the roll R1 with weapons like the Zwei can be good since they will outreach kats. Don't forget GC for when they get all pokey-pokey.

    I agree but it just kind of bothers me. I hate having to pop an att slot into every build I make, I hate using spells/pyros on any build that isn't a caster build. Plus, atleast for me, if somebody just runs at my face and spams that katana my parry skills suddenly drop levels to a starting player haha, since I suck at setups. I can only get a perfect (\/) blind parry most of the time.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:48 am

    Katanas are overated a longsword-a generic medieval straight weapon in my opinion is just as viable as a katana in the right hands, I may also add it earns you style points.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:41 am

    My strength build: http://tinyurl.com/9tybvwk - it is a rather Overpowered strength build, it allows for use of almost any strength weapon/dex weapon with a buff, the dextrous ones are used as occult etc; It is unique in the manner that it doesn't have a shield.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:44 am

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:The point of a tank is not to roll thats like watching a space marine do the worm.

    My Space Marines do the worm, when I roll a 3 or higher .


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Carphil on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:13 am

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:Katanas are overated a longsword-a generic medieval straight weapon in my opinion is just as viable as a katana in the right hands, I may also add it earns you style points.

    THANK YOU big grin


    Also, I'm with @martyrs in this one, its all about player preference winking

    Mid rolling can be viable as fast rolling, and if timed right, you can dodge incoming attacks in the same way.

    The 2 problems I can find about it:

    1-Running speed if you are running from a fight, but in my opinion, if you're dueling you should not run. Invading is a different story.

    2-Stamina regen. Thats why grass shield is so common in STR builds. But green moss should solve this.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:43 pm

    I off handed a hand axe and it was a pretty decent off hand backup it could quickly hit enemies and helped me deal with people who try to bs me.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:23 pm

    Thats aweful logic. "A broken hilt is just as viable as a katana in the right hands."

    The qualifier "right hands" leaves it all on the user, when due to the single stat scaling, a katana is far better than a longsword in the majority of pvp. They're some of the fastest and most versatile weapons in game, which is why they're so popular.

    I must also point out that the balder side sword has movements similar to a longswords, and is also one of the most popular weapons I've seen.

    At the end of the day, the popular weapons are popular for a reason, usually because they're among the best to be had.

    They're only overrated if you believe the number of users directly equates to the usefulness of the weapon ( it doesnt or the uchi would have taken over the real world by this point) or if someone is exagerating their powers.


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    Re: Strength builds

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:29 pm

    Let everyone think that about my precious shiny totally not threatening blade.


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    Re: Strength builds

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