solaire and the firstborn

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    solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:57 pm

    I believe that solaire is the son of the firstborn, since we see in the sunlight altar a statue of a women holding a child and Another staue which is the sunlight altar which probably is the god of war, think about it why would their be two seperate statues to the same person? I'm not sure who solaires mother could be though in utter mad speculation I think it might be fina.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by samster628 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:44 pm

    possible but statues of the god of war and an unidentified woman holding a baby i don't feel is evidence enough. besides i always thought the woman was gwyns lady holding the god of war himself.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:02 pm

    There is very little evidence that actually suggest Solaire is the God of War. Every single thing that people point out is circumstantial and/or has no actual weight.

    Personally, I think the player character is the God of War, since THEY actually stand out and are unique.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:10 pm


    Shkar wrote:There is very little evidence that actually suggest Solaire is the God of War. Every single thing that people point out is circumstantial and/or has no actual weight.

    Personally, I think the player character is the God of War, since THEY actually stand out and are unique.
    I don't think the player character is the god of war since the characters gender is changeable and if female the sunlght medals description dosnt change, I don't think the god of war can be solaire either but I do thinnk solaire is his son due to his abilitys that are clearly very high evn training can't get you there unless the player character, but as I said the player can't be the god of war although that is a plausible theory............. but I do definetly believe the fallen god of war is not present in dark souls, only his decendents, speaking of which has anyone considered the chosen undead to be a descendent of the god of war?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:12 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    Shkar wrote:There is very little evidence that actually suggest Solaire is the God of War. Every single thing that people point out is circumstantial and/or has no actual weight.

    Personally, I think the player character is the God of War, since THEY actually stand out and are unique.
    I don't think the player character is the god of war since the characters gender is changeable and if female the sunlght medals description dosnt change, I don't think the god of war can be solaire either but I do thinnk solaire is his son due to his abilitys that are clearly very high evn training can't get you there unless the player character, but as I said the player can't be the god of war although that is a plausible theory............. but I do definetly believe the fallen god of war is not present in dark souls, only his decendents, speaking of which has anyone considered the chosen undead to be a descendent of the god of war?

    Why can't they? They don't even know the God of War's name, who says they know his gender? Heck, that right is a good point: what is the default way you refer to someone you don't know the gender of (if you don't care about political correctness)?

    Everything Solaire can do, you can do better. His numbers are artifically inflated to make up for the fact that you need to be able to have him be useful on NG+ and such, despite the fact that he is an NPC. Your character is the only one who lights bonfires, is the only one we've seen "restore his humanity", and gets sent BACK IN TIME (Groundhog Day style) when you link/abandon the flame.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:23 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    Shkar wrote:There is very little evidence that actually suggest Solaire is the God of War. Every single thing that people point out is circumstantial and/or has no actual weight.

    Personally, I think the player character is the God of War, since THEY actually stand out and are unique.
    I don't think the player character is the god of war since the characters gender is changeable and if female the sunlght medals description dosnt change, I don't think the god of war can be solaire either but I do thinnk solaire is his son due to his abilitys that are clearly very high evn training can't get you there unless the player character, but as I said the player can't be the god of war although that is a plausible theory............. but I do definetly believe the fallen god of war is not present in dark souls, only his decendents, speaking of which has anyone considered the chosen undead to be a descendent of the god of war?

    Why can't they? They don't even know the God of War's name, who says they know his gender? Heck, that right is a good point: what is the default way you refer to someone you don't know the gender of (if you don't care about political correctness)?

    Everything Solaire can do, you can do better. His numbers are artifically inflated to make up for the fact that you need to be able to have him be useful on NG+ and such, despite the fact that he is an NPC. Your character is the only one who lights bonfires, is the only one we've seen "restore his humanity", and gets sent BACK IN TIME (Groundhog Day style) when you link/abandon the flame.

    We definetly know the god of war was male since he is repeatedly referd to as male on top of that its confirmed that gwynevere is gwyns only female child and solaire is the onlY summonable npc in the game that has that much stats in game,he says he's from astora. But apart from that we don't have a clue about his life before the events of dark souls., he is an enigma with that he is the most likely to be the fallen god of war or at the very least his son. Also fun fact solaire sounds like sol-heir


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:32 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    We definetly know the god of war was male since he is repeatedly referd to as male on top of that its confirmed that gwynevere is gwyns only female child and solaire is the onlY summonable npc in the game that has that much stats in game,he says he's from astora. But apart from that we don't have a clue about his life before the events of dark souls., he is an enigma with that he is the most likely to be the fallen god of war or at the very least his son. Also fun fact solaire sounds like sol-heir

    And I'm Buddha. Names can be changed, all you have to do is start introducing yourself as someone else to people. We don't know ANY NPC's backstory; Oscar came from Astora and has a family legend talking about ringing the bells; we can learn BETTER sunbros miracles than Solaire knows; Jeremiah is almost completely immune to magic damage and Mildred has insane damage resistance (in regards to stats). I will give you that the GoW is referred to as male the few times the game brings him up, but again, my point about "him" being the default way we refer to people when gender is unknown (ignoring political correctness). Also, I don't remember ever hearing anything about Gwynevere being Gwyn's only daughter. Heck, Gwyndolin was raised as a daughter for being tied to the moon, perhaps Gwyn's "first daughter" was raised as a son for being tied to the sun?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:44 pm

    Plausible, but gwyndolin is repeatdly reffered to as an effeminate male when do you hear the god of war being referd in the same manner? The game is extremely straight forward about the god of wars gender and the player character won't allways be a miracle using knight with an affInity for weapons, the game is an rpg that id focused on making you feel insignificant to the bosses and is meant to feel difficult it gives you the ablity to make speculation on the player characters identity but it never puts you in a place wich you have god like power, miracles can be used by other npcs. Like clerics and paladin leeroy can use wotg, solaire and ornstien are the only npcs which use lightning spears, gwyn is mentioned to use them but he doesn't ingame and it obviusly isn't ornstien since he still has knight hood and considerable power and was still in anor londo at the time of gwyns departure (someone had to protect gywnevere) , it is known that there is other sunlight warriors but none are reffered to by name except from solaire, it can't be the player character as the player character is the inheritor of the dark souls which is a human thing.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:54 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:Plausible, but gwyndolin is repeatdly reffered to as an effeminate male when do you hear the god of war being referd in the same manner? The game is extremely straight forward about the god of wars gender and the player character won't allways be a miracle using knight with an affInity for weapons, the game is an rpg that id focused on making you feel insignificant to the bosses and is meant to feel difficult it gives you the ablity to make speculation on the player characters identity but it never puts you in a place wich you have god like power, miracles can be used by other npcs. Like clerics and paladin leeroy can use wotg, solaire and ornstien are the only npcs which use lightning spears, gwyn is mentioned to use them but he doesn't ingame and it obviusly isn't ornstien since he still has knight hood and considerable power and was still in anor londo at the time of gwyns departure (someone had to protect gywnevere) , it is known that there is other sunlight warriors but none are reffered to by name except from solaire, it can't be the player character as the player character is the inheritor of the dark souls which is a human thing.

    Says a giant serpent, known throughout nearly every mythology as being deceitful little liars. Heck, if we are allowing what Kaathe says, then he also says that Gwyn has "blurred your past". Who else do we know that has had their past wiped away?

    Why is it that you are sent back in time when you finish the game? Why is it that you alone can light the bonfires. Why is it that there is nobody around to teach you the miracles for the Sun Bros? You just leave the Sunlight Medals there and you just KNOW.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:06 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:Plausible, but gwyndolin is repeatdly reffered to as an effeminate male when do you hear the god of war being referd in the same manner? The game is extremely straight forward about the god of wars gender and the player character won't allways be a miracle using knight with an affInity for weapons, the game is an rpg that id focused on making you feel insignificant to the bosses and is meant to feel difficult it gives you the ablity to make speculation on the player characters identity but it never puts you in a place wich you have god like power, miracles can be used by other npcs. Like clerics and paladin leeroy can use wotg, solaire and ornstien are the only npcs which use lightning spears, gwyn is mentioned to use them but he doesn't ingame and it obviusly isn't ornstien since he still has knight hood and considerable power and was still in anor londo at the time of gwyns departure (someone had to protect gywnevere) , it is known that there is other sunlight warriors but none are reffered to by name except from solaire, it can't be the player character as the player character is the inheritor of the dark souls which is a human thing.

    Says a giant serpent, known throughout nearly every mythology as being deceitful little liars. Heck, if we are allowing what Kaathe says, then he also says that Gwyn has "blurred your past". Who else do we know that has had their past wiped away?

    Why is it that you are sent back in time when you finish the game? Why is it that you alone can light the bonfires. Why is it that there is nobody around to teach you the miracles for the Sun Bros? You just leave the Sunlight Medals there and you just KNOW.

    Kaathe and frampt are liars this I know but the player character must be human to use humanity its limtied to humans and only humans the god of war can't use it since he isn't human, gwyn blurred your past because he doesn't want humans discovering the dark soul which is confirmed ion the prologue that the pygmy inherited the 5th soul which is the dark soul and the pygmy are humans, humanity is a fragment of the dark soul which is only usable by humans and the lst part of your point I'm pretty sure was just for gameplay purposes but from a lore perspectivethe god of war rewards his warriors as it is stated that he still watchs over his warriors.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:13 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    Kaathe and frampt are liars this I know but the player character must be human to use humanity its limtied to humans and only humans the god of war can't use it since he isn't human, gwyn blurred your past because he doesn't want humans discovering the dark soul which is confirmed ion the prologue that the pygmy inherited the 5th soul which is the dark soul and the pygmy are humans, humanity is a fragment of the dark soul which is only usable by humans and the lst part of your point I'm pretty sure was just for gameplay purposes but from a lore perspectivethe god of war rewards his warriors as it is stated that he still watchs over his warriors.

    The general consensus is that Gwyn's wife was probably Vecna, who was probably a firekeeper. Firekeepers have souls made out of humanity. Who says that having a firekeeper for a mother and a god for a father wouldn't create a god that can use humanity? Heck, Priscilla has a dragon for a father and she has a tail. No matter the reasoning behind Gwyn blurring your past, WHY YOU? What on earth would make him blur the past of some random person?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:21 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    Kaathe and frampt are liars this I know but the player character must be human to use humanity its limtied to humans and only humans the god of war can't use it since he isn't human, gwyn blurred your past because he doesn't want humans discovering the dark soul which is confirmed ion the prologue that the pygmy inherited the 5th soul which is the dark soul and the pygmy are humans, humanity is a fragment of the dark soul which is only usable by humans and the lst part of your point I'm pretty sure was just for gameplay purposes but from a lore perspectivethe god of war rewards his warriors as it is stated that he still watchs over his warriors.

    The general consensus is that Gwyn's wife was probably Vecna, who was probably a firekeeper. Firekeepers have souls made out of humanity. Who says that having a firekeeper for a mother and a god for a father wouldn't create a god that can use humanity? Heck, Priscilla has a dragon for a father and she has a tail. No matter the reasoning behind Gwyn blurring your past, WHY YOU? What on earth would make him blur the past of some random person?

    Because he fears an age were humans reign supreme he doesn't want his age of fire to end he doesn't want the dark lord to be made a reality , it does make sense if you were "half firekeeper" but firekeepers must be female and the firstborn is male, althhoguh it doeas makle you wonder why did gwyn not just have you killed? And when you return to the asylum you find two black knights one in your cell were the peculiar doll is found, what do you think coincidence? Or were you to be sealed away to the painted world of ariamis:?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:26 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    Because he fears an age were humans reign supreme he doesn't want his age of fire to end he doesn't want the dark lord to be made a reality , it does make sense if you were "half firekeeper" but firekeepers must be female and the firstborn is male, althhoguh it doeas makle you wonder why did gwyn not just have you killed? And when you return to the asylum you find two black knights one in your cell were the peculiar doll is found, what do you think coincidence? Or were you to be sealed away to the painted world of ariamis:?

    You have the firekeeper scar, and as I seem to enjoy pointing out lately, you are the only undead who goes around lighting bonfires. The only bonfires that are prelit are the firekeeper ones and the Eternal Dragon fire. You are also the only hollow to actually REGAIN your humanity.

    And, ignoring if he's right to do so (I think he is), Gwyn does indeed fear the flame going out. However, we have no way of knowing if he knows about the Dark Lord. And even if he did, how would he possibly know it was YOU? It only seems logical that he tried to stop you because of some OTHER reason.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:39 pm

    that is true but as I recall the other speculation for this is that the player character was directly related to the pygmy who had the dark soul who resides (or used to) reside in the abyss the realm of the humans which is also homme to the dark lord.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:43 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:that is true but as I recall the other speculation for this is that the player character was directly related to the pygmy who had the dark soul who resides (or used to) reside in the abyss the realm of the humans which is also homme to the dark lord.

    Humans can't walk in the abyss, they fall to their death. Too the best of my knowledge, the "dark" they came from isn't the abyss, but it literally just means underground, where the suns light would not be able to reach.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:45 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:that is true but as I recall the other speculation for this is that the player character was directly related to the pygmy who had the dark soul who resides (or used to) reside in the abyss the realm of the humans which is also homme to the dark lord.

    Humans can't walk in the abyss, they fall to their death. Too the best of my knowledge, the "dark" they came from isn't the abyss, but it literally just means underground, where the suns light would not be able to reach.
    I don't want to spoil anything for you but do you know who manus is?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:55 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:that is true but as I recall the other speculation for this is that the player character was directly related to the pygmy who had the dark soul who resides (or used to) reside in the abyss the realm of the humans which is also homme to the dark lord.

    Humans can't walk in the abyss, they fall to their death. Too the best of my knowledge, the "dark" they came from isn't the abyss, but it literally just means underground, where the suns light would not be able to reach.
    I don't want to spoil anything for you but do you know who manus is?

    I have not played the DLC, no. So it would appear that this MAY be the end of our conversation (or at least, for now. I'm going to the movies silly).


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:56 pm

    Meh


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:22 pm

    Shkar his wife is Velka, not Vecna. Although all things considered that may not be such a big change silly
    There is just too much evidence against Solaire and not enough for him to say he is the GoW anymore. The best candidates atm are Andre and Siegemeyer. But let me explain 100% why Solaire isnt the GoW.
    Everyone you can summon (with the exception of dusk whose summon sign isnt a true sign) is from a different world. They dont actually exist in your world, they have their own, The GoW exists in your world. So if you can summon someone they arent the GoW. Its that simple.


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    Shkar
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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:26 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Shkar his wife is Velka, not Vecna. Although all things considered that may not be such a big change silly
    There is just too much evidence against Solaire and not enough for him to say he is the GoW anymore. The best candidates atm are Andre and Siegemeyer. But let me explain 100% why Solaire isnt the GoW.
    Everyone you can summon (with the exception of dusk whose summon sign isnt a true sign) is from a different world. They dont actually exist in your world, they have their own, The GoW exists in your world. So if you can summon someone they arent the GoW. Its that simple.

    Damn, that's a huge change. Velka, the witch goddess of sin, or Vecna, the D&D lich god of secrets? I guess Gwyn has strange tastes...


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Derpwraith on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:49 am

    I found the head of the broken statue..


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:06 am

    InfiniteDoomsday wrote:I found the head of the broken statue..

    Oh? Do tell.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:12 am

    Yeah is right there next to the arm on the floor. Nothing fancy.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Derpwraith on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:23 am

    Shkar wrote:
    InfiniteDoomsday wrote:I found the head of the broken statue..

    Oh? Do tell.
    As far as i know, the statue has slightly long hair, no beard. face is blank because, well its destroyed. Or From Soft is keeping it a secret for not putting further details into the head of the statue. There are a few possibilities on who could be the statue. Solaire of course, his helmet completely covers his face so i'll look at the hairstyles in the character creation menu to match the hairstyle as the statues head. It could be a younger Gwyn, or Ornstein because the statue is holding a dragonslayer spear.
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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:34 am

    InfiniteDoomsday wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    InfiniteDoomsday wrote:I found the head of the broken statue..

    Oh? Do tell.
    As far as i know, the statue has slightly long hair, no beard. face is blank because, well its destroyed. Or From Soft is keeping it a secret for not putting further details into the head of the statue. There are a few possibilities on who could be the statue. Solaire of course, his helmet completely covers his face so i'll look at the hairstyles in the character creation menu to match the hairstyle as the statues head. It could be a younger Gwyn, or Ornstein because the statue is holding a dragonslayer spear.

    It's not the spear, it's actually a halberd.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

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