Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

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    TehInfamousAmos
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    Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:17 pm

    Okay, I am a bit of a lurker in the archives and this topic keeps on recurring. This speculation could hopefully be put to sleep, Tolvo, Federally and I came up with this idea during a conversation on Skype.
    I will summarize a section of the conversation where some of the less important speculation in the matter occurred.

    Basically this is concerning the firstborns death and we noted how his corpse was outside Gwyn's tomb, we thought about how he possibly had gotten there. We thought that either the Firstborn went to repent to Gwyn or the reason he left his Sunlight Blade in the chest because he was dying and he didn't want to desecrate his fathers tomb, this speculation was made by Tolvo and I - Federally and I went on a different tangent that possibly he knew his father had gone and that he possibly returned to reclaim his place as the firstborn from Gwyndolin. Both of the branches of the return claims believe that Dolin killed him, I thought that possibly he had heard about the illusion that Dolin had created and thought to confront him about it to make him remove it. However Federally noted that perhaps the confrontation occurred and that Gwynevere left after the Firstborn was killed.

    Referring back to another thread you may realize that Acidic Cook suggested that Velka became a deity or something like a dragon, possibly the stone dragon. What we thought about with that claim is that the Firstborn became the Hellkite Wyvern, the reasoning behind this is you may note that he is a lot bigger than the other drakes. We theorized that he was this because you may note that he is standing in guard of the Sunlight Altar - I thought that he possibly was guarding it and wanting to test the mettle of all the warriors that would be joining his ranks. You will notice that he may seem aligned with the sunbros because Solaire goes to the Sunlight Altar during his storyline without getting harmed.
    I will Ctrl + C and Ctrl + V that part of the convo, it was a bit hard to explain xD

    Rest of Convo
    Spoiler:
    [15:46:54] Tolvo: The Bridge Wyvern.
    [15:47:08] Tolvo: He watches over the altar, and the sunlight warriors.
    [15:47:25] Lance "Federally": No ****. That's a great idea
    [15:47:52] Lance "Federally": That could be why he isn't a dragon, but the only Wyvern in the game
    [15:48:10] Tolvo: And so massive of a Wyvern.
    [15:48:26] Tolvo: Though being A Sunlight warrior doesn't cause him to spare yo.
    [15:48:34] Tolvo: Odd though that it doesn't pick up Solaire.
    [15:48:47] Tolvo: It would have flown right over him and easily saw him standing out in the open looking up.
    [15:48:53] Tolvo: He also never mentions the Wyvern.
    [15:49:39] TehInfamousAmos: I have done that Tolvo silly
    [15:49:49] TehInfamousAmos: I do the standin around corner trick all the time xD
    [15:53:56] Lance "Federally": If being in the covenant earned passage it would cement your theory, but its still a good idea
    [16:24:26] TehInfamousAmos: well, wyvern is the god of war, possibly it is standing guard so it can test your mettle to see If you are suitable sunbro material?
    [16:24:35] TehInfamousAmos: if he is*
    [16:26:42] Lance "Federally": That's not a bad idea.
    [16:27:28] Lance "Federally": And doesn't Solaire get to the altar to invite you in the covenent even if you don't kill the wyvern?
    [16:27:37] TehInfamousAmos: aye
    [16:27:43] TehInfamousAmos: he does
    [16:28:36] Lance "Federally": So the Wyvern is obviously no concern to him.
    [16:28:56] TehInfamousAmos: exactly silly

    Thank you for reading it and think about your views upon it.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:52 pm

    Yay for medicated speculations!
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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Federally on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:49 pm

    I like it. Now we wait for Doughy Boy to read it.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Shkar on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:00 pm

    I would think that a being based around the sun and lightning would not have a weakness to the stuff as a dragon (or at least, not as much).


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Federally on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:26 pm

    One more thing I just noticed Amos that supports the idea of him testing your worthiness. If you run past him and get to the altar without killing him he just flies away. Like his mission is accomplished, he tested you and you passed.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Tolvo on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:27 pm

    He returns if you go back on the bridge again.
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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:34 pm

    Yeah. That seem more like, "You've found a viable sniper spot I can't retaliate against and so I'm taking my ball and going home for now." Same thing if you head to the tower to try to get him there. Although technically he should be able to torch you in either spot but the game just isn't programmed that way I suppose.

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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:04 pm

    Never fear I am here! I think the main question is why would he become a wyvern? And how? He's not a god anymore, he doesnt have the big powers.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Serious_Much on Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:07 pm

    I don't know who, what, why, when, or even where (obviously lordran but no specifics)

    The only concrete thing I think we can say is they are 100% separate and different entities, despite some speculation I've seen that's one belief I hold.

    This is why I both love and hate the lore, it's interesting to get immersed in, but even after all the searching you can do, it simply leaves you still in the dark with nothing but a mere candle of knowledge in comparison.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Federally on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:43 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Never fear I am here! I think the main question is why would he become a wyvern? And how? He's not a god anymore, he doesnt have the big powers.

    Where does it say he was stripped of his powers? And is that even possible? The Gwyn we run in to is a fragment of his former self yet he is still quite powerful. So how can you say he is no longer a powerful 'god'?

    The only thing we know is the GoW was stripped of his 'status', meaning his title and place as a worshipped deity was taken away. However this is all symbolic stuff, not his actual powers.

    In relation to this, why does everyone assume the missing statue in the O&S boss room was Dolin? Dolin was hidden away there shouldn't be any statues of him to hide. That empty pedestal held the statue of the firstborn, and the statue was removed/hidden after his status was taken away.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:46 pm

    There is still a statue there, you can see it when you throw stuff at it. Thus it must be hidden by illusion and be Dolin. Ill try to find where it says he was stripped of power.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Federally on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:53 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:There is still a statue there, you can see it when you throw stuff at it. Thus it must be hidden by illusion and be Dolin. Ill try to find where it says he was stripped of power.

    Why wouldn't it be Dolin the illusionist hiding evidence of the first born, the one who was born into the position Dolin wishes he had and threw it all away!


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:06 am

    There's also a height thing I believe. The pedestal is much higher than the otehr 2, so its more likely Dolin's as he is short.
    Finally the sunlight altar was smashed, why would a statue of him not be smashed?


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Federally on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:43 am

    That corpse wearing his ring didn't look too tall


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:44 am

    The corpse isnt necessarily him.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Shkar on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 am

    You get Pharis' Hat off a female NPC, but Pharis was a dude.


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    Re: Speculations about Gwyns Firstborn and God of War.

    Post by Fallen Angelus on Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:38 am

    Bandits differ from a corpse though, eh?

    The hat also says it's a popular item with children, Female archer grew up wanting to be like the Greatest archer of Londo and didn't pass up the chance to loot his stuff?

    I think the corpse under the statue was just some unlucky dude who looted the wrong ring, thinking that it would give him access to Gywn's tomb to loot it or some such. It doesn't obviously and he just lost gumption and died there like so many others just sit down and die in Lordran.


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