solaire and the firstborn

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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:21 pm

    WHat Dough said in his last two posts is basically what I was going to say. Except, I'm thinking now that the illusion of Gwynevere is actually Gwynevere "projecting herself" there. It explains why she doesn't disappear when you kill Gwyndolin.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:38 pm

    Gwynevere doesnt disapppear when you kill Dolin because she is not an illusion per se. She is actually a magical construct made by Dolin just like all the other enemies. She is however, the focus for all the constructs, they draw their energy through her and the sun.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:45 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Gwynevere doesnt disapppear when you kill Dolin because she is not an illusion per se. She is actually a magical construct made by Dolin just like all the other enemies. She is however, the focus for all the constructs, they draw their energy through her and the sun.

    She offers the ability to join her covenant and use hir miracles. If you are drawing on her power, then it make sense that she would have to "allow" that, which means that she has to be at least somewhat involved in her "other self".


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:48 pm

    Or you could be drawing on .. nothing really. The ring has no power on its own, it requires other peoples poewr to do anything. Dolin could simply have a stock of the rings and be handing them out, and the rings just respond to synergy since they are uselss on their own.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:07 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Or you could be drawing on .. nothing really. The ring has no power on its own, it requires other peoples poewr to do anything. Dolin could simply have a stock of the rings and be handing them out, and the rings just respond to synergy since they are uselss on their own.

    THe miracles. There has to be a reason that you can only use the Sunlight miracles when you are in her covenant. You can use the Chaos Tempest spell when you aren't in the Chaos Servants, because you are just learning how to do it. You can't use the covenant-related miracles because you are using that being's power/permission to use that spell.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:17 am

    Perhaps the illusion has power? Maybe Dolin made it from her before she fled Anor Londo and infused part of her power into it. This there is a little bit of her power controlling her miracles.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by biotheimpaler on Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:46 am

    So if siegmeyer was the GoW how would his daughter play into that?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:51 am

    Is she truly his daughter? Seath was looking on creating life with his hollows, maybe he succeeded? Or perhaps she is his daughter, captured by Seath to base his experiments on. It is odd she has no special properties, but after the GoW was stripped of his status he could have been human, and his children would be human.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by biotheimpaler on Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:54 am

    True, so maybe he did capture her since her father was the GoW, sounds plausible


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:14 am

    Proof Siegmeyer isn't the God of War:

    No soldier would sit and do nothing with enemies right beside him.

    Although, in my joke I realized that Siegmeyer really DOES sit right next to serpent men when he's in Sen's Fortress. Maybe he was working for Seath the whole time?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:15 am

    Actually its a "glitch" that they are still alive. Most times I have gone down the 2 serpents are dead already. I believe the first time you see him they are dead, to show he killed them. But after you rest at a bon they revive.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by biotheimpaler on Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:18 am

    Well Siegmeyer does seem kinda.... derpy. According to his daughter he gets into trouble alot, maybe brain damage from getting his head screwed with? Lol its a huge shot in the dark, but idk this GoW thing leaves a lot of room to guesses


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:20 am

    No "good" soldier suffers nap attacks. ESPECIALLY not the "God of War"!

    They suffer from Happy Liver Disease (HLD).


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by biotheimpaler on Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:25 am

    You think its possible the god isn't even in the game? Or maybe he was cut, which would suck. Maybe new content based on him will come someday lol


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by samster628 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:30 pm

    as i said i think the god of war was cut. there is also 0 evidence for seig or oscar being the god. The point on the image being projected by the real guenevere seems quite possible though. Theres quite a bit of evidence for it. Firstly of Gwyndolen seem's very upset when you destroy it like he has an emotional attachment to it. The fact that the illusion has its own covenant also points towards it being gueneveres creation. Gwyndolen already has one and the miricles of the princess guard covenant are unique healing miricles. this points to them being from a unique god like the sunlight spear/ sword are the GoW's covenant miricles and you have to be in that covenant to use his miricles, with his blessing. Note how the 2 miricles of guenevere are sunlight NOT moonlight miricles showing they don't draw from gwyndolens power. Anyway not making any more points at the mo. got other posts to make maybe about new londo.

    also doughguy do you have a problem or is it just coincidence its always you who disagrees with my comments big grin


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:34 pm

    I don't have a problem, unless you count you making baseless statements with no evidence to back them up in the face of evidence as a problem. Like I said Oscar had evidence, but the same theory that disproves Solaire disproves Oscar as a candidate. And if you havent already, I recommend reading Acidic's thread about lore if you want evidence for siege.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by samster628 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:25 pm

    samster628 wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    menzinho wrote:The player can't be the firstborn for the following reason in my opinion:

    In the medieval ages, women were not allowed to take part in politics (being supreme rulers, sole Queens and so on) due to the church and their dogmas, if DS follows that plot line (and i think it does cuz i for one never saw a Knight Queen Rendalina who mangled a Drake or All Mother Lloydelin), see Gwynevere for example, does she look's like she can put up a fight? if that illusion is precise (except the size that we know its fake) she seems pretty weak, aside from mages (like the witches of Izalith) and Ciaran (we don't know if she was royalty) we don't see much melee fighting female royalty, and hell it's the god of war we are talking about, he's GOT TO BE A *** KICKER!!

    So if the Firstborn was be female, then it would have been Gwyndolin who would inherit the sunlight, not him/her

    We already saw that they were willing to raise a son as a daughter because of their "magical alignment", why couldn't they raise a daughter as a son? It's already pretty obvious that they don't care too much about genders.

    sorry to be the one to say it but i don't think it would be very easy to disguise guenevere as a man. and in case you didn't notice her illusion wears a dress showing her to be female. Gwyndolen wears a skirt. the god of war is blatently male and by looking at his statue at the sunlight alter you can see he is male too.

    Don't forget just because he is no longer a diety doesn't mean he cant still have immense powers to be able to see all of his followers and grant them miricles at his statue. maybe he has no physical body at all. i'd like to point out that even if solare is dead you can still get lightning spears at the alter. also i agree that it is the first Male who becomes the heir making the god of war male. this rules out the player character who can be female.

    Also if he were the player character and regained his memory would he simply be reffered to as "chosen undead" by his sister? and given his arragence would he kneel to her? and of course think of all the times you're character backs away from a fight (EG sif, asylum deamon). Fianally in anor londo the character seems surprised at several events (most notably entering the painted world). would this happen to someone who used to live here?

    i like the theory but there is too much evidence against solaire or the player character being the god of war and too little evidence for andre or oscar being the god of war. if he was ever ment to have a visible physical form in the game it was cut.

    this whole statement was about the lack of evidence for the GoW candidates and disproving solaire or the player charachter. what i said was not baseless. here is the evidence i listed and what it shows (cos i have really taken offence at you calling my statements baseless)

    Guenevere wears a dress showing her to be female unlike gwyndolen who cross dresses. the god of wars statue appears to be male. The fact that first born males are the heirs. The fact that you can get the miricles from the sunlight alter even if solare is dead.

    That is the proper evidence i put in. the paragraph about the player charachters reactions to certain things was to disprove an earlier post about the god of war keeping his memory and you being the god of war and so that evedence worked on the assumption that you were the god and kept your memory. SO I AM NOT BASELESS. also what shred of evidence points to oscar or seig bing exeptionally good fighters or otherwise being the god of war. i would read cooks comments but to be fair i do find his posts to be baseless or working on the tinyest amounts of evidence. that said he does think up some good ideas.

    I stand by that the god of war was cut or at the very least doesnt appear in physical form.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by menzinho on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:17 pm

    I agree with samster, i think the god of war is not in the game currently, so the PC is not him, Solaire even less, and don't get me started on Ornstein or Andre...


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:38 pm

    Evidence for Oscar - http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t6437-is-oscar-the-god-of-war (Apparently Random neg troll struck this thread)
    But as I've said the same evidence that disproves Solaire disproves him.
    The evidence for Sieg is in Acidic's notes, if you aren't going to read them don't continue to say there is no evidence for them when there is.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by X-government-agent on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:16 pm

    the way it says that he watches over his soldiers on one of the item descriptions makes it sound like he is dead


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Solaire_of_Astora on Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:09 pm

    Yeah, Gywn's my dad. No big deal lol Well What is it


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Derpwraith on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:09 pm

    Solaire_of_Astora wrote:Yeah, Gywn's my dad. No big deal lol
    Don't pretend to be solaire..


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Solaire_of_Astora on Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:32 am

    InfiniteDoomsday wrote:
    Solaire_of_Astora wrote:Yeah, Gywn's my dad. No big deal lol
    Don't pretend to be solaire..
    I am Solaire of Astora, an adherent to the Lord of Sunlight.
    Now that I am Undead, I have come to this great land, the birthplace of Lord Gwyn, to seek my very own sun!


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by samster628 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:34 pm

    Doughy i guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by TheLolrider on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:12 pm

    My best guess is that the God of War isn't technically in the game anymore, or rather, he may be in the game, but all the content that dealt with him directly as the GoW was cut. Andre was revealed to have originally have been a descendent of Lord Gwyn and was privy to a pretty big secret, if the art book is any indication.

    I'd have to agree with Dough about Solaire: he may be strong, but he's not part of our world. It's possible, I guess, that he could be the GoW of a different reality, but that's pretty much pointless to this discussion.

    Also, I think people are being too literal with the "blurred past" thing. There's no evidence to suggest that Gwyn blurred your past specifically, or did it on an individual basis. The way it's mentioned in game makes it seem like a conspiracy. He blurred humanity's collective past, not anyone's individual past.

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