solaire and the firstborn

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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:52 am

    Dragonslayer Halberd. I think that's a statue of young Gwyn. Or the god of war.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:47 am

    Let's make a list of all the most likely and possible candidates for being the god of war.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:08 am

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:Let's make a list of all the most likely and possible candidates for being the god of war.
    I did once. Andre and Solaire got the most votes.
    Solaire's helm can be clipped through and you can see his face, he has a mo. Oscar interestingly, has not head if you clip through his helm.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:15 am

    DoughGuy wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:Let's make a list of all the most likely and possible candidates for being the god of war.
    I did once. Andre and Solaire got the most votes.
    Solaire's helm can be clipped through and you can see his face, he has a mo. Oscar interestingly, has not head if you clip through his helm.

    Can't be andre since his original stroy was that he was the firstborn but that storyline was cut (don't know why) so it could still be him I suppose but its more liekly to be solaire in that regard.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by samster628 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:26 am

    the miricle sunlight sword shows us that the god of war has lost his diety status. Note how he is reffered to as a god not a goddess. he is also the patron of the sunlight covenant as we know from the description of sunlight medals.this makes it a near certainty that the destroyed statue at the sunlight alter is of the god of war. when you offer up sunlight medals to the alter it is the god of war who gives you the miricles. notice how when you offer up gwyns soul you get the sunlight spear miricle. sunlight spear, sunlight sword. Definatly the god of wars statue. this also proves solaire is not the god of war. why would he worship himself? his incredible skill's are due to training and commitment in the name of the god of war. Also i see NO evidence of andre or oscar being the god of war. the god of war you don't meet in dark souls but somehow he knows his worriors and bestows his gifts upon them.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:38 am

    It also tells us the firstborn still has his memory after all he ruturned to leave it On his fathers coffin after gwyn was sacraficed to relight the flame.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:04 am

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    DoughGuy wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:Let's make a list of all the most likely and possible candidates for being the god of war.
    I did once. Andre and Solaire got the most votes.
    Solaire's helm can be clipped through and you can see his face, he has a mo. Oscar interestingly, has not head if you clip through his helm.

    Can't be andre since his original stroy was that he was the firstborn but that storyline was cut (don't know why) so it could still be him I suppose but its more likely to be solaire in that regard.
    Just because it was officially cut doesn't mean he cant still be it.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:18 pm

    samster628 wrote:the miricle sunlight sword shows us that the god of war has lost his diety status. Note how he is reffered to as a god not a goddess. he is also the patron of the sunlight covenant as we know from the description of sunlight medals.this makes it a near certainty that the destroyed statue at the sunlight alter is of the god of war. when you offer up sunlight medals to the alter it is the god of war who gives you the miricles. notice how when you offer up gwyns soul you get the sunlight spear miricle. sunlight spear, sunlight sword. Definatly the god of wars statue. this also proves solaire is not the god of war. why would he worship himself? his incredible skill's are due to training and commitment in the name of the god of war. Also i see NO evidence of andre or oscar being the god of war. the god of war you don't meet in dark souls but somehow he knows his worriors and bestows his gifts upon them.

    If he lost his divinity and is no longer a god, how can he still ACT as one? No human could watch over their followers and teach them stuff without being there like that. Even with magic, we're talking something on an impossible level here.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:30 pm

    Hence why I believe he is either solaires father or just isn't in the game.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Buggy Virus on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:32 pm

    Meh, with all evidence considered.

    Most possible to least possible:
    1. Not in Game
    2. Andrei
    3. Solaire


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:41 pm

    Bah, why does nobody find my theory about the player being the God of War interesting? At least the facts I point out are things that make him absolutely 100% unique, unlike the things used to suggest Solaire.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Buggy Virus on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:43 pm

    Shkar wrote:Bah, why does nobody find my theory about the player being the God of War interesting? At least the facts I point out are things that make him absolutely 100% unique, unlike the things used to suggest Solaire.

    I never saw your theory, where is it?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:46 pm

    Buggy Virus wrote:
    Shkar wrote:Bah, why does nobody find my theory about the player being the God of War interesting? At least the facts I point out are things that make him absolutely 100% unique, unlike the things used to suggest Solaire.

    I never saw your theory, where is it?

    It's more of evidence to support the player being the God of War. Here:

    1. The player is unique; can light bonfires, can restore humanity, can loop time (Groundhog Day style, you warp back to the start of the game), and learns the sunbro miracles when nobody is around to teach him.

    2. The God of War is always referred to as "he", yet male is the default gender people use when they don't care about political correctness.

    3. Kaathe says Gwyn has "blurred your past." Who ELSE do we know who has had their past erased?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by JohnnyHarpoon on Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:33 pm

    Shkar wrote:There is very little evidence that actually suggest Solaire is the God of War. Every single thing that people point out is circumstantial and/or has no actual weight.

    Personally, I think the player character is the God of War, since THEY actually stand out and are unique.

    I disagree greatly, I think the fact that Solaire says that the SUN is like a magnificent FATHER is all the evidence anybody needs to realize he's the fallen God of War...

    I mean, yeah, anyone could just say that, but to call a hint like that circumstantial is just pure arrogance.

    I'd call it that Solaire is a descendant of the God of War at least, but that's really just complicating a theory that is already spelled out, right in the player's face, in my mind . There's just NO reason for him to equate the Sun to a father if Gwyn isn't his father...


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:14 pm

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:
    Shkar wrote:There is very little evidence that actually suggest Solaire is the God of War. Every single thing that people point out is circumstantial and/or has no actual weight.

    Personally, I think the player character is the God of War, since THEY actually stand out and are unique.

    I disagree greatly, I think the fact that Solaire says that the SUN is like a magnificent FATHER is all the evidence anybody needs to realize he's the fallen God of War...

    I mean, yeah, anyone could just say that, but to call a hint like that circumstantial is just pure arrogance.

    I'd call it that Solaire is a descendant of the God of War at least, but that's really just complicating a theory that is already spelled out, right in the player's face, in my mind . There's just NO reason for him to equate the Sun to a father if Gwyn isn't his father...

    Solaire talks poetically all the time. ONE thing is not enough to proclaim him the GoW when there are several things that actively go against that theory. Besides, there are several possible definitions for the word "father". He could be using that word to symbolize the God of War as someone who watches over and guides him.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:31 am

    Anyone wonder about lautrec! dun dun dun!!!!!!!


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:42 am

    JohnnyHarpoon wrote:
    Shkar wrote:There is very little evidence that actually suggest Solaire is the God of War. Every single thing that people point out is circumstantial and/or has no actual weight.

    Personally, I think the player character is the God of War, since THEY actually stand out and are unique.

    I disagree greatly, I think the fact that Solaire says that the SUN is like a magnificent FATHER is all the evidence anybody needs to realize he's the fallen God of War...

    I mean, yeah, anyone could just say that, but to call a hint like that circumstantial is just pure arrogance.

    I'd call it that Solaire is a descendant of the God of War at least, but that's really just complicating a theory that is already spelled out, right in the player's face, in my mind . There's just NO reason for him to equate the Sun to a father if Gwyn isn't his father...
    The fact you are saying a SINGLE line of dialogue is proof when I have shown evidence that he cannot be the GoW is extremely arrogant. Just because he is human doesnt immeditaely shunt him from your world into his own one. He's summonable as a phantom, he doesn't exist in your world, he can;t be the GoW. You cannot argue against this, this is fact.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:47 am

    But solaire has got a non-phantom toon in your world (when you first meet him and again in izalith) if he doesn't exist your world how can he have a physical non-phantom presence?


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:50 am

    Because thats how the time distortion works. His world crosses into yours and they effectively "overlap" for a time allowing you to see him as a human. Same reason you can see Lautrec but then you invade him.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by menzinho on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:14 pm

    The player can't be the firstborn for the following reason in my opinion:

    In the medieval ages, women were not allowed to take part in politics (being supreme rulers, sole Queens and so on) due to the church and their dogmas, if DS follows that plot line (and i think it does cuz i for one never saw a Knight Queen Rendalina who mangled a Drake or All Mother Lloydelin), see Gwynevere for example, does she look's like she can put up a fight? if that illusion is precise (except the size that we know its fake) she seems pretty weak, aside from mages (like the witches of Izalith) and Ciaran (we don't know if she was royalty) we don't see much melee fighting female royalty, and hell it's the god of war we are talking about, he's GOT TO BE A *** KICKER!!

    So if the Firstborn was be female, then it would have been Gwyndolin who would inherit the sunlight, not him/her


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by Shkar on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:17 pm

    menzinho wrote:The player can't be the firstborn for the following reason in my opinion:

    In the medieval ages, women were not allowed to take part in politics (being supreme rulers, sole Queens and so on) due to the church and their dogmas, if DS follows that plot line (and i think it does cuz i for one never saw a Knight Queen Rendalina who mangled a Drake or All Mother Lloydelin), see Gwynevere for example, does she look's like she can put up a fight? if that illusion is precise (except the size that we know its fake) she seems pretty weak, aside from mages (like the witches of Izalith) and Ciaran (we don't know if she was royalty) we don't see much melee fighting female royalty, and hell it's the god of war we are talking about, he's GOT TO BE A *** KICKER!!

    So if the Firstborn was be female, then it would have been Gwyndolin who would inherit the sunlight, not him/her

    We already saw that they were willing to raise a son as a daughter because of their "magical alignment", why couldn't they raise a daughter as a son? It's already pretty obvious that they don't care too much about genders.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by samster628 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:11 am

    Shkar wrote:
    menzinho wrote:The player can't be the firstborn for the following reason in my opinion:

    In the medieval ages, women were not allowed to take part in politics (being supreme rulers, sole Queens and so on) due to the church and their dogmas, if DS follows that plot line (and i think it does cuz i for one never saw a Knight Queen Rendalina who mangled a Drake or All Mother Lloydelin), see Gwynevere for example, does she look's like she can put up a fight? if that illusion is precise (except the size that we know its fake) she seems pretty weak, aside from mages (like the witches of Izalith) and Ciaran (we don't know if she was royalty) we don't see much melee fighting female royalty, and hell it's the god of war we are talking about, he's GOT TO BE A *** KICKER!!

    So if the Firstborn was be female, then it would have been Gwyndolin who would inherit the sunlight, not him/her

    We already saw that they were willing to raise a son as a daughter because of their "magical alignment", why couldn't they raise a daughter as a son? It's already pretty obvious that they don't care too much about genders.

    sorry to be the one to say it but i don't think it would be very easy to disguise guenevere as a man. and in case you didn't notice her illusion wears a dress showing her to be female. Gwyndolen wears a skirt. the god of war is blatently male and by looking at his statue at the sunlight alter you can see he is male too.

    Don't forget just because he is no longer a diety doesn't mean he cant still have immense powers to be able to see all of his followers and grant them miricles at his statue. maybe he has no physical body at all. i'd like to point out that even if solare is dead you can still get lightning spears at the alter. also i agree that it is the first Male who becomes the heir making the god of war male. this rules out the player character who can be female.

    Also if he were the player character and regained his memory would he simply be reffered to as "chosen undead" by his sister? and given his arragence would he kneel to her? and of course think of all the times you're character backs away from a fight (EG sif, asylum deamon). Fianally in anor londo the character seems surprised at several events (most notably entering the painted world). would this happen to someone who used to live here?

    i like the theory but there is too much evidence against solaire or the player character being the god of war and too little evidence for andre or oscar being the god of war. if he was ever ment to have a visible physical form in the game it was cut.
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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:38 am

    samster628 wrote:i'd like to point out that even if solare is dead you can still get lightning spears at the alter. also i agree that it is the first Male who becomes the heir making the god of war male. this rules out the player character who can be female.

    Also if he were the player character and regained his memory would he simply be reffered to as "chosen undead" by his sister? and given his arragence would he kneel to her? and of course think of all the times you're character backs away from a fight (EG sif, asylum deamon). Fianally in anor londo the character seems surprised at several events (most notably entering the painted world). would this happen to someone who used to live here?

    i like the theory but there is too much evidence against solaire or the player character being the god of war and too little evidence for andre or oscar being the god of war. if he was ever ment to have a visible physical form in the game it was cut.
    I'd like to point out the GoW isnt Solaire.
    The illusion of Gwynevere is not the real Gwynevere, and has very little reason to act like her. In addition it is an illusion made by Gwyndolin, meaning the dress is what he wanted her to be wearing. However the picture in the room does imply she wore a dress.
    The GoW may have had his memory erased. I also recall someone saying Kaathe says your memory has been altered. SO yes, they would be surprised by those events. Also why would he be arrogant?
    Oscar isnt the GoW, the same evidence against Solaire disproves him as a candidate.
    Andre and Siegemeyer are still likely.


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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by RNsunbro on Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:20 am

    This is kind of off topic but it's been bugging me for a while but why is the moon associated with females?
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    Re: solaire and the firstborn

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:25 am

    Cause the sun is associated with males. Opposites. Happens a lot.
    Thats my take at least.


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