Sorcery is useless

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    ChizFreak
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:32 pm

    aceluby wrote:You've obviously never fought me...

    I've got the bellowing ring + dusk crown and can take out almost anyone in two hits of either CSS or HCSM. I also change it up frequently so you may think I'm casting CSS and instead HCSM to hit you as you get out of your roll, or the opposite and you get a CSS to the face. Couple that with the moonlight greatsword which I can two hand at any point to finish you off and you can pretty easily see why I win most of my PvP as a battle mage.

    Seems to me you just need to get better.

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    Zechk
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Zechk on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:32 pm

    Guys,

    Please knock it off with the flaming in this thread or I'm going to get grouchy.

    I think magic is like many things in DkS, Risk vs Reward. I've been destroyed by it a few times, and I've also been able to dodge the lot and win easily in PVP. In PvE it's awesome. I don't really see what all the fuss is about. Nobody want's it to be really imbalanced, and as it is it's not.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:34 pm

    nhbdy wrote:

    Well rolling gives a few frames of invincibility and these can be applied to anything (based on my current experience).

    and in response to your joke (for unfortunately some people do tend to think along those lines) something isn't useless because it has counter/way around it, in fact that's the first step towards balance, it is still plenty useful if you time it properly or plan around it (ex. I have fought you before and know that you like to roll through my HCSM, so I cast to bait your roll into a position that leaves you open for a 2h attack or BS).

    And after you do it the first time, I figure out that if I parry you right after I roll you'll attack and I'll get a riposte off. So I try it, only to discover I don't have a good enough window to even respond, and just die instead. So instead I just eat the soul mass running at you with a shield while you set up the hit, and I catch you with some form of combustion. Then I probably miss some hits, and die to you casting something else. I've always been curious, is there any use to the heavy Soul Arrows in PvP? I know Regular and Great have good cast times, but Heavy always seems too lethargic to me. Have you ever found a good use for the Heavy ones?
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by justwant2play on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:34 pm

    One of my toons is a sorcery user. It's not that useless.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by nhbdy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:38 pm

    Tolvo wrote:And after you do it the first time, I figure out that if I parry you right after I roll you'll attack and I'll get a riposte off. So I try it, only to discover I don't have a good enough window to even respond, and just die instead. So instead I just eat the soul mass running at you with a shield while you set up the hit, and I catch you with some form of combustion. Then I probably miss some hits, and die to you casting something else.

    Welcome to the world of PvP I may use this if I ever write a thesis on it, it's a constant game of trying to outguess your opponent while keeping your bases covered lol

    Tolvo wrote: I've always been curious, is there any use to the heavy Soul Arrows in PvP? I know Regular and Great have good cast times, but Heavy always seems too lethargic to me. Have you ever found a good use for the Heavy ones?

    I've never seen it successfully used, it's too easy to dodge (I've done so by strafing... yeah) too long a casting time, and too slow of a projectile, and to top it all off doesn't hit as hard as CSS
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:43 pm

    nhbdy wrote:

    Welcome to the world of PvP I may use this if I ever write a thesis on it, it's a constant game of trying to outguess your opponent while keeping your bases covered lol



    I've never seen it successfully used, it's too easy to dodge (I've done so by strafing... yeah) too long a casting time, and too slow of a projectile, and to top it all off doesn't hit as hard as CSS

    I've pretty much had the same results testing it, I was just wondering if anyone who does Sorcery more might be pulling off some trick I haven't figured yet.

    Again, a reason I love Dark Souls. I have been wanting to make a more Magic focused PvP character, as of to try and stay on topic. Which do you think are the most useful PvP spells? I would love to get that list to mess around with haha.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by nhbdy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:48 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Again, a reason I love Dark Souls. I have been wanting to make a more Magic focused PvP character, as of to try and stay on topic. Which do you think are the most useful PvP spells? I would love to get that list to mess around with haha.

    As has been mentioned above, magic is supplemental to melee in this game, by design, so if you are under the impression that you can use sorcery to carry you, get that out of your head right now.

    As to which spells are useful, CMW, CSS, SS, HSM, HCSM are all common choices, the SS and CSS are generally used after an opponent wiffs pretty bad or you get a sufficient opening, the HSM and HCSM are used to control the space a bit more and if you are lucky can hit for large amounts of damage. I don't think I have to explain CMW. Some less conventional spells I've seen used are the hidden weapon/hidden body, the weapon one in particular can show you how well your opponent understands your spacing needs as they will have fewer visual cues to let them know where you want them (and thus where they need to not be). Of course hidden body and chameleon require no explanation...

    EDIT: apparently some people have some success using the crystal breath spell by aiming it manually, had too little experience with it to talk much on it, but might be worth a look if you're bored
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:53 pm

    nhbdy wrote:
    As has been mentioned above, magic is supplemental to melee in this game, by design, so if you are under the impression that you can use sorcery to carry you, get that out of your head right now.

    As to which spells are useful, CMW, CSS, SS, HSM, HCSM are all common choices, the SS and CSS are generally used after an opponent wiffs pretty bad or you get a sufficient opening, the HSM and HCSM are used to control the space a bit more and if you are lucky can hit for large amounts of damage. I don't think I have to explain CMW. Some less conventional spells I've seen used are the hidden weapon/hidden body, the weapon one in particular can show you how well your opponent understands your spacing needs as they will have fewer visual cues to let them know where you want them (and thus where they need to not be). Of course hidden body and chameleon require no explanation...

    EDIT: apparently some people have some success using the crystal breath spell by aiming it manually, had too little experience with it to talk much on it, but might be worth a look if you're bored

    Thanks for the info, I'll have to mess around with some of those and get used to them. I am intimidated sometimes in pvp to even take out a Catalyst, but man I do want to get some more sorceries going. Yeah I've noticed that when you have limited spells, and the enemy has limitless swings with a weapon, that they can easily outlast you if you have no physical capabilities. So it seems like this Thread pretty much is at its end. My opinion, Sorcery Useful, just not in every situation, as is everything.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by nhbdy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:56 pm

    Tolvo wrote: Sorcery Useful, just not in every situation, as is everything.

    Words to live by, but the thread isn't ended until people stop using it to discuss (may be now, may be in 20 pages).
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:57 pm

    nhbdy wrote:
    Tolvo wrote: Sorcery Useful, just not in every situation, as is everything.

    Words to live by, but the thread isn't ended until people stop using it to discuss (may be now, may be in 20 pages).
    I know, I was just pretty much giving my closing statement before I stop posting in this thread personally. I probably just didn't word it properly.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Yesuurd on Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:07 pm

    I have seen some pretty decent pure mages in pvp...


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by deathsdragon on Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:17 pm

    I find Sorcery very effective in PvE and just fun to watch the roll dodges in PvP, also good for those WOG spammers who like to run for a bridge to back slap them as they run


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