Sorcery is useless

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    Herbo
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Herbo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:47 pm

    It'd still be nice to have a little bit of customization for a pew pew sorcerer build though. Allowing us to upgrade catalysts to add Lightning damage or Raw physical damage at the expense of scaling, and changing the color of the laser beams would at least be mildly entertaining. But I don't think that sorceries as implemented are somehow inferior...sheesh I tend to get murdered more by pew-bots than the dive rolling bum stabbers. And I've never had a problem murdering my precious PvE sprites with sorcery.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Carphil on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:48 pm

    Now you have -18 rep, and I did nothing because I gave "thanks" to other people in my thread today.

    Actually I want to thank you because you made me realise that being only 16 years old I can make friends and talk normally with people without rage diferent from some guys out there...


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Herbo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:53 pm

    Carphil wrote:Now you have -18 rep...
    Wow I missed that - sign before....so does that mean that the Darkmoon Blades are going to come for Midgar in the night now?



    Still, I don't think we need to start making personal attacks at people fellas. We can disagree vehemently and still have jolly co-operation.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:57 pm

    I know I've never been brutally murdered by a Soul Spear or anything, I mean come on. It's not like it could one shot you, or a person could aim themself and get you with great skill rather than just use the lock on mechanic and miss. It's never happened, never...

    *Looks over at his TV Screen seeing "You Died" while a man with a big hat and a stick bows over his fading corpse.*

    Totally, Sorcery sucks completely!
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by nhbdy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:59 pm

    Midgar wrote:
    nhbdy wrote:So let me get this straight... it was overpowered to the point of dominance in Des, and they nerfed it when they released this game, to the point that it is merely viable, and you're mad about this?


    Not mad, it's a video game lol, just saying I haven't found Sorcery nearly as useful in Dark Souls, it'd be cool if it were.

    but my point is that if it was overpowered, then it is a good thing it was fixed for the multiplayer aspect of this game, because last I checked having one single overpowered strategy dominate a competitive multiplayer metagame is not fun for anyone but those that rely on said strategy as a crutch. This being said I don't think that current pvp is balanced, but I can make an argument that sorcery is much more balanced than it was in Des.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:00 pm

    Herbo wrote:Still, I don't think we need to start making personal attacks at people fellas. We can disagree vehemently and still have jolly co-operation.

    I like this approach, don't be harsh on each other, just prove them wrong if you feel you are in the right.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by meridam99 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:01 pm

    Wish you could get that spell that gwendolyn casts that completely muckles you.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by aceluby on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:03 pm

    meridam99 wrote:Wish you could get that spell that gwendolyn casts that completely muckles you.

    Totally... either would be awesome, but truly overpowered.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:03 pm

    meridam99 wrote:Wish you could get that spell that gwendolyn casts that completely muckles you.

    Do you mean the one that goes through the walls and you have to dodge, or that Energy Beehive that if you aren't behind the wall wrecks you? I'd love both, come on From get on it! lol
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by meridam99 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:03 pm

    nhbdy wrote:but my point is that if it was overpowered, then it is a good thing it was fixed for the multiplayer aspect of this game, because last I checked having one single overpowered strategy dominate a competitive multiplayer metagame is not fun for anyone but those that rely on said strategy as a crutch. This being said I don't think that current pvp is balanced, but I can make an argument that sorcery is much more balanced than it was in Des.

    Amen


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Herbo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:04 pm

    I want that super-nova thing the Moonlight Butterfly does.



    "yeah that Wrath of the Gods is cute Mr. Invader...suck on a super nova!" of course I'd only be thinking that as I'm falling from the bridge in Sens Fortress...


    Last edited by Herbo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Midgar on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:05 pm

    Carphil wrote:Now you have -18 rep, and I did nothing because I gave "thanks" to other people in my thread today.

    Actually I want to thank you because you made me realise that being only 16 years old I can make friends and talk normally with people without rage diferent from some guys out there...

    Reputation and internet friends on a forum, mindboggling.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by strangejoy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:06 pm

    If they add Gwyndolin spells, using them should cause your character to acquire tentacle legs. It would be like the family masks. You want an edge? The price is looking stupid.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:08 pm

    strangejoy wrote:If they add Gwyndolin spells, using them should cause your character to acquire tentacle legs. It would be like the family masks. You want an edge? The price is looking stupid.

    That gives me all the more incentive. I love playing as weird and stupid looking characters, hell I have a toon with 40 endurance that wears Dark Armor. I don't even need that mask, but I love to wear Father's just because of how weird looking it is. Though a bit off topic.

    Boss spells eh? How about, the Stray Demon. Giant Massive AoE Spells. Now that's some broken PvP kehhehhehe.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Herbo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:08 pm

    strangejoy wrote:If they add Gwyndolin spells, using them should cause your character to acquire tentacle legs. It would be like the family masks. You want an edge? The price is looking stupid.
    And you could be leg-back-stabbed in any of them lol...


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:09 pm

    And these boss magics is where the whole boss souls for magic comes back into play right?

    I mean who wouldn't want quelaags attack where they breathes lava?!


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:11 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:And these boss magics is where the whole boss souls for magic comes back into play right?

    I mean who wouldn't want quelaags attack where they breathes lava?!

    Oh god, I would just run around in full Smough's doing that, I wouldn't even be trying to kill people, just seeing if I can vomit on them.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by strangejoy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:13 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:And these boss magics is where the whole boss souls for magic comes back into play right?

    I mean who wouldn't want quelaags attack where they breathes lava?!

    Chaos firewhip is pretty close. Then again, using it is like begging for a backstab.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by nhbdy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:14 pm

    Tolvo wrote:
    meridam99 wrote:Wish you could get that spell that gwendolyn casts that completely muckles you.

    Do you mean the one that goes through the walls and you have to dodge, or that Energy Beehive that if you aren't behind the wall wrecks you? I'd love both, come on From get on it! lol

    MAGE WANTS THESE SPELLZ!!!!!!111!1@#1!

    in all seriousness I think it'd be awesome to get spells from boss souls, it'd give mages something unique to get out of bossfights like what fighters get from the weapons, not to mention the gwyndolin spells were particularly awesome, both telegraphed clearly and for that reason wouldn't (likely) upset their balance factor too much and both could be dealt with if you thought about it (I just rolled through the "beehive" spell, never hit me).
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:17 pm

    nhbdy wrote:

    MAGE WANTS THESE SPELLZ!!!!!!111!1@#1!

    in all seriousness I think it'd be awesome to get spells from boss souls, it'd give mages something unique to get out of bossfights like what fighters get from the weapons, not to mention the gwyndolin spells were particularly awesome, both telegraphed clearly and for that reason wouldn't (likely) upset their balance factor too much and both could be dealt with if you thought about it (I just rolled through the "beehive" spell, never hit me).

    I do often as a mage find myself simply having left over souls that I have no reason to use, other than maybe for a trading. But damn would I love it if I could Turn in the Soul of Gwyndolin to get that, Pyromancies and Miracles would be pretty interesting in that aspect as well.

    Rolling through it...Don't make me laugh...That's so stupid, I can barely...You can roll through those?
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by nhbdy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:22 pm

    Tolvo wrote:Rolling through it...Don't make me laugh...That's so stupid, I can barely...You can roll through those?

    That was my reaction to seeing a phantom block the gargoyle's halberd on the parish rooftop... ever since I try the stupid stuff first. Also I was using the flip ring, the timing was rather forgiving so I imagine it's possible to do without, I got the idea from my preferred reaction to HCSM, just roll into it as they launch and get an attack if they are set up right, kind of like rushing them.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by meridam99 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:23 pm

    I remember playing Demon Souls and having to flip the game several times just to get all the cool spells!


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:25 pm

    nhbdy wrote:

    That was my reaction to seeing a phantom block the gargoyle's halberd on the parish rooftop... ever since I try the stupid stuff first. Also I was using the flip ring, the timing was rather forgiving so I imagine it's possible to do without, I got the idea from my preferred reaction to HCSM, just roll into it as they launch and get an attack if they are set up right, kind of like rushing them.

    So you'd say, Sorcery is completely useless because you can roll through it then?

    Joking aside, I actually kind of like the balance in that, idiot me didn't realize you could roll through even regular HSM. I mean, you can roll to dodge attacks, so rolling to dodge spells seems fairly well to me. Provided you're willing to try something stupid first until you discover the smart tactic and timing haha.
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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:28 pm

    Midgar wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:
    Midgar wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:It's not underpowered.. in fact it's far more powerful than other magics and thats the point.

    You're less likely to hit with it, but if you do it'll either be an insta kill or they'll have just enough health left to watch you finish them off.

    I don't agree with that, I have 50 Intel and I hit someone earlier for like 400-500. That's maybe a 1/3 of their health. And if they use a shield, well..that's obvious.

    equip bellowing ring, crown of dusk, TCC, hit someone with crystal soul spear then come back and tell me it's underpowered. seriously.

    Hmm well I've never used the first two with the TCC, you only get two casts though and they are likely misses, oh well I'll try your suggestion. Maybe I'll use the basic soul arrow and see what kind of damage it does, it's a lot faster, might be worth it.

    The Great Soul arrow has the same cast time that the Soul arrows has and it does more damage.


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    Re: Sorcery is useless

    Post by nhbdy on Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:29 pm

    Tolvo wrote:
    nhbdy wrote:

    That was my reaction to seeing a phantom block the gargoyle's halberd on the parish rooftop... ever since I try the stupid stuff first. Also I was using the flip ring, the timing was rather forgiving so I imagine it's possible to do without, I got the idea from my preferred reaction to HCSM, just roll into it as they launch and get an attack if they are set up right, kind of like rushing them.

    So you'd say, Sorcery is completely useless because you can roll through it then?

    Joking aside, I actually kind of like the balance in that, idiot me didn't realize you could roll through even regular HSM. I mean, you can roll to dodge attacks, so rolling to dodge spells seems fairly well to me. Provided you're willing to try something stupid first until you discover the smart tactic and timing haha.

    Well rolling gives a few frames of invincibility and these can be applied to anything (based on my current experience).

    and in response to your joke (for unfortunately some people do tend to think along those lines) something isn't useless because it has counter/way around it, in fact that's the first step towards balance, it is still plenty useful if you time it properly or plan around it (ex. I have fought you before and know that you like to roll through my HCSM, so I cast to bait your roll into a position that leaves you open for a 2h attack or BS).

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