Extinguish the bonfires. No bonfire run

Eolan wrote:Ive got rhea alive and well at the firekeeper shrine, even though i found her corpse in seaths... Im lookin at gwyn and shes still back at the parish chilling...

Did you fight her as a hollow?

Hey, I love how this thread keeps going.

I would like to make a no bonnie run myself. I always thought of that kind of seeminlgy impossible possibility:

Did someone ever do a run where they tried to "not bother" with ANYTHING that is related to the first flame?

-That would mean no resting at any bonfire at all of course. (not even at the already lit ones)

-Thus no miracles and pyromancy (both tied to the first flame by themselfs) and sorcery.

-Thus no human form.

-Thus no jolly cooperation or invading.

-Thus no refilling your Flask. Also Estus is of course tied to the bonfires and thus the flame (estus being another word for "heat" in latin btw, at least google translator says that). Could you also avoid getting it from Oscar in the first place? Guess not? And I guess you can't drop it? Can you unequip it at least? Never even tried that actually.

What about the Lordvessel? Obviously you wouldn't want to place it and even less rest at it, so you won't be able (if you even make it that far) to access Kiln. Maybe Kaathe is wrong about placing it and fighting Gwyn. Maybe we are to leave that old fallen king alone and purely focus on putting out the last fire before the everlasting dragon?

Also for me, the only logical thing is to be on the side of the dragons. The dragon covenant is the only covenant that is actually in no way related to the first flame/the age of fire. And you can invade while hollow btw.

In the Darkwraith cov you can only invade while in human form, that means feeding the bonfire our humanity, and we don't want to do that!

On the side of the gods: Way of White (is it actually about llyod or gwyn?), Princess' Guard, Blade of the Darkmoon, Warrior of Sunlight

Although Warrior of Sunlight cov isn't that clearly about any specific god/lord (just Solaire) it's still about miracles (and coop).

On the side of the lords edit: the other beings who got lord souls: Gravelord Servant, Chaos Servant

Idk where to put the Forest Hunter cov, it is all about Artorias, and it's speculated that Artorias betrayed Lord Gwyn, also you can invade also when hollow like in the dragon cov, so yeah, I don't know how to view that cov. Maybe Artorias actually wanted to bring the age of dark? But you know what lol let's just wait for the DLC... Guess that speculating is pointless now in general. Who knows what the DLC will reveal?

But no... anyway, as long as the DLC isn't out I will go on with the belief that the dragon cov is would be the way to go. It is logical just by the lore (that is given). The dragons got defeated and thus began the age of fire, aka we are now in purgatory because of that.

Why is there a bonfire in front of the ash lake dragon that won't go out? Uuuuuuuh... yeah.

Ok now I'm confused actually. Yeah Idk maybe the dragon is waiting for something specific to happen. No wait really it doesn't make sense why should a dragon just sit before a bonfire? :suspect:

Yeah guys very likely I'm on the wrong path

(Maybe I should not join any covenant?)

skarekrow13 wrote:Rhea can turn hollow and be in the cell you find Logan

Actually she's in a cell on the stairs, which requires the extra archives prison cell key, Logan is in the, well everyone knows where he is.

I have been frustrated about having used the estus flask in my run. I never boosted it, but I agree that it carries the fire in it, so its ****.

Re: covenants
I have been afraid that you have to choose the right covenant to do this, or no covenant. I choose sunbros because that is what hideya mayataka said he would have chosen, but maybe he wanted a kindle run and not a extinguish run.

Do the no bonfire run! You will find it easier than you thought, and that it just makes a ton of sense.

I believe that the flames will most easily be extinguished PRIOR to placing the lord vessel. It feels very wrong to place it and feed it souls. I'm looking at taking down the Edragon before placing.

Interestingly, the four kings posses a bequeathed lord soul, which exists in New Londo ruins (where no bonfires exist), is outside the realm of the golden fogs! Flooded by the sealers (one of whom works with Lautrec). I just can't help but connect dots!

Hello everyone! I'm new here and I am aswell interested in the Dark Souls lore and undiscovered secrets.

I have a modded character with max level and unlimited HP so I'm trying to do some runs.
I started with a Deprieved and Pendant as a gift and I'm doing a run without bonfires (only the one in Firelink), no deaths (even if it's impossible because of Seath) and no covenants. On NG+ i'm planning to use no bonfire at all. Also in NG I will go to The Great Hollow to try attacking the Stone Dragon with various weapons. I'm also using the 1.00 version of the game, no updates.
If anyone has any ideeas worth trying tell me.

Praise the Sun!

Use the ring of sacrifice to nulify the death to seath. Other than that you're on the track the rest of us are on. Oh I would suggest letting Lautrec kill anastacia because that way even firelink is extinguished!

Welcome to the forums!

ICEFANG wrote:

skarekrow13 wrote:Rhea can turn hollow and be in the cell you find Logan

Actually she's in a cell on the stairs, which requires the extra archives prison cell key, Logan is in the, well everyone knows where he is.

See that's what i'm not sure about. I'm sure i've had Rhea standing in the parish after looting that body, or by killing her earlier and that body is still there.

Basically I mean no matter what I do to Rhea that body is still there so I really dont think it's supposed to be her; just a maiden that Seath experimented on, etc.

Lautrec killed Anastacia but I don't plan on invading him to get the soul back. Also, I looted no Firekeeper Soul at all. I find it very strange that on that altar Rhea is praying, there is a dead firekeeper and also an iron knight. Maybe he's there to protect the soul, or the altar.
I also tried to aggro Petrus to take him on the elevator to Rhea. Unfortunately, after some hard tries, I managed to get him into the elevator but he just "teleported" back to his normal place. The same thing happened when I tried to aggro Rhea to the elevator back to Petrus. It's clearly that the devs did not want us to get NPCs on that elevator, or maybe it's just a range limit that NPCs cannot pass.

Knight Alundil wrote:

ICEFANG wrote:

skarekrow13 wrote:Rhea can turn hollow and be in the cell you find Logan

Actually she's in a cell on the stairs, which requires the extra archives prison cell key, Logan is in the, well everyone knows where he is.

See that's what i'm not sure about. I'm sure i've had Rhea standing in the parish after looting that body, or by killing her earlier and that body is still there.

Basically I mean no matter what I do to Rhea that body is still there so I really dont think it's supposed to be her; just a maiden that Seath experimented on, etc.

I've thought this from the beginning, what with the pisaca being maidens turned to creatures by seath. That coupled with the fact that I never knew rhea went to archives till about a month ago, lol.

so i too have been lurking long enough…and this thread has inspired me to finally post something.

i'm going to start a fireLESS run (pun hahaha, i'm so clever) both for the challenge and to see if i can come up with anything interesting as well.

my plan is to run through as a Sunbro, use all seven Firekeeper Souls to boost my Estus in the 1st playthough. i'm also going to fully kindle each of the Firekeeper bonfires (Firelink, Anor Londo etc.) before putting them out, while not touching any other bonfire. i'm going to kill lautrec in Anor Londo as well. as far as Rhea goes, i'm going to save here, buy everything (i want the miracles) and let Petrus kill her. oh, i'll be playing through as a Cleric with the pendant as a starting gift btw.

the ash lake bonfire will be a problem though (surprise) but i don't think the secret to extinguishing it is in figuring out how to kill the E Dragon. i don't think it is a firekeeper. my reasoning is simple, it does not accept firekeeper souls to upgrade your estus, unlike every other firekeeper. my thinking is that there is a firekeeper in Ash Lask somewhere, but the E Dragon is not it.

on a side note, in my experience Rhea shows up when you enter the Depths and moves to the Tomb of Giants after ringing both bells, whether i saw her at Firelink or not. the body in the Dukes with the maiden's armour and the ring is not Rhea, it is a different maiden. that corpse is always there no matter what state Rhea happens to be in.

i also believe that the empty chest in Gwyn's Tomb does contain something, but only if we find a way to trigger the right event. how? i have no idea. but it's not there to just be empty…i'm sure of that.

I'm glad we are getting more no bonfire runners. It's the only way we will get to the bottom of this. If anyone sees anything different please be sure to post an get our opinions. Posting what you plan on doing before running is also a good idea.

Considering that it is the opposite of fireless, I am also interested in fully
Kindled runs. I personally prefer to end the age of fire, but has anybody tried that? Obviously someone must have tried this.

Yes, I tried a NG+ fully kindled bonfires, but nothing at all happens.
But really, that maiden in the Duke's Archives is not Reah? Then we absolutely need to buy all of her spells and then find her in another place. I belive she drops the Pendant so that you can use it in NG+ to find her. So if you have the Pendant in NG, then I belive she doesnt need to die, so you can find her again in your NG. I just rescued her so I'm buying everything because I have the Pendant.
On the side, doing a no death run on ver. 1.00 of the game is impossible. I died when I dropped in Nito's hole. Is that even supposed to happen? I just walked there, no jump, no run.
Also about the no bonfire: should we kill all the firekeepers, and not place the Lordvessel so that no bonfire is lit? But this implies killing the Stone Dragon too.

fireLESS wrote:I'm glad we are getting more no bonfire runners. It's the only way we will get to the bottom of this. If anyone sees anything different please be sure to post an get our opinions. Posting what you plan on doing before running is also a good idea.

Considering that it is the opposite of fireless, I am also interested in fully
Kindled runs. I personally prefer to end the age of fire, but has anybody tried that? Obviously someone must have tried this.

I've heard of a couple people doing full kindle runs! Not much in the way of differences though. I think we're all just missing a simple trigger. This game is full of them! Solaire helping with Gwyn its a normal event tree till we come to killing the maggots, I would've never thought to do that. Siegmeyer and his whole quest seems to be like this too. I just feel like there's a small thing were missing that is required to finally trigger the change.

Welcome to the hunt, Nybbles!

Chr0m3 wrote:Yes, I tried a NG+ fully kindled bonfires, but nothing at all happens.
But really, that maiden in the Duke's Archives is not Reah? Then we absolutely need to buy all of her spells and then find her in another place. I belive she drops the Pendant so that you can use it in NG+ to find her. So if you have the Pendant in NG, then I belive she doesnt need to die, so you can find her again in your NG. I just rescued her so I'm buying everything because I have the Pendant.
On the side, doing a no death run on ver. 1.00 of the game is impossible. I died when I dropped in Nito's hole. Is that even supposed to happen? I just walked there, no jump, no run.
Also about the no bonfire: should we kill all the firekeepers, and not place the Lordvessel so that no bonfire is lit? But this implies killing the Stone Dragon too.

Several of us have beaten NG, some others NG+ doing a no bonfire run where we have successfully extinguished all bonfire except lord vessel altar, and the stone dragon. The goal here is to trigger a change. I began the extinguish theory because every single thing in the game seems to point that we are trying to let the flames die if we are to bring the age of man. So basically it is all based on the "Lore", and the lore is all speculation for the most part. This is why I predict that the more extinguish runs we try, the more likely we will find the event. It is probably some ridiculously small thing, perhaps a specific order of completion. I fear it could even go so far as to depend on starting classes/covenants chosen. From Software is notorious for their cruelty, that's partly why we all love them.

Personally, I think the stone dragons firekeeper needs to go down before placing the vessel. In other words, the game might be beatable before the endings we are used to. Gwyn losses his power if we extinguish the flame, no need to fight him.
I also highly doubt that using glitches will be the answer. A glitch is a glitch, what we re looking for is something else.

I really thought that the maiden there is Rhea! Not the normal one that's always there, but the one with the Ivory talisman that you fight because she's a hollow. she's only there if you save Rhea by killing Petrus, or so I thought. In my current NG+, I am keeping her in thoroland by not entering the depths (for as long as I can).

Seeing as we were all talking about Lautrec before this seems relevant here.
I was watching an old epicnamebro lore video and he stated no one knows why he's locked up in the parish at the start of the game. I never realized how similar Lautrec is to the player character.

He starts each ng+ back locked up in a cell and is released by a random passer by.
Edit: Also, you can imagine the player character telling lautrec about the quest Oscar tells you about, and saying about the bells, also similar to your release.

He uses firelink firekeeper as long as he needs her until killing her for her firekeeper soul and moving on, just like the player character does with the other two. The only reason we don't do it at firelink is because of the attachment we have to firelink as some sort of a "home base".

The way he stands with two other summons in Anor when you invade him is very similar to many player characters. Perhaps this area is where From predicted most ganking would happen through the Darkmoon covenant as opposed to the current situation as it is in the forest, and Lautrec seems like the kinda **** that would gank to me.

Food for thought.

fireLESS wrote:I really thought that the maiden there is Rhea! Not the normal one that's always there, but the one with the Ivory talisman that you fight because she's a hollow. she's only there if you save Rhea by killing Petrus, or so I thought. In my current NG+, I am keeping her in thoroland by not entering the depths (for as long as I can).

I think the one we fight is Rhea, I'm not convinced that the body we find the maiden set is Rhea, though.

Interesting points, Alundil! I gave the idea that Lautrec is "like us" a little while ago, but with such limited info I didn't give it any deeper consideration. You've rekindled that idea in me, !

Knight Alundil wrote:Seeing as we were all talking about Lautrec before this seems relevant here.
I was watching an old epicnamebro lore video and he stated no one knows why he's locked up in the parish at the start of the game. I never realized how similar Lautrec is to the player character.

He starts each ng+ back locked up in a cell and is released by a random passer by.
Edit: Also, you can imagine the player character telling lautrec about the quest Oscar tells you about, and saying about the bells, also similar to your release.

He uses firelink firekeeper as long as he needs her until killing her for her firekeeper soul and moving on, just like the player character does with the other two. The only reason we don't do it at firelink is because of the attachment we have to firelink as some sort of a "home base".

The way he stands with two other summons in Anor when you invade him is very similar to many player characters. Perhaps this area is where From predicted most ganking would happen through the Darkmoon covenant as opposed to the current situation as it is in the forest, and Lautrec seems like the kinda **** that would gank to me.

Food for thought.

Sorry, but things keep popping up in my head.

Thinking about what i've said about how similar Lautrec is to the player character, and what people have said before about just missing some key thing to get the ball rolling with a storyline ingame or whatever, this is what I was thinking;

Miyazaki said in an interview when asked about fighting Gwyn with Solaire that Solaire still has to make the choice of lighting the flame or walking away in his own world in his own time. Now, what if this is the same for Lautrec and we need to find a way to help him throughout the game to summon him for Gwyn so when he makes his choice in his own world and we both go into NG+ into our prospective cells and.... I dono that's as far as my thought goes.

Knight Alundil wrote:

Knight Alundil wrote:Seeing as we were all talking about Lautrec before this seems relevant here.
I was watching an old epicnamebro lore video and he stated no one knows why he's locked up in the parish at the start of the game. I never realized how similar Lautrec is to the player character.

He starts each ng+ back locked up in a cell and is released by a random passer by.
Edit: Also, you can imagine the player character telling lautrec about the quest Oscar tells you about, and saying about the bells, also similar to your release.

He uses firelink firekeeper as long as he needs her until killing her for her firekeeper soul and moving on, just like the player character does with the other two. The only reason we don't do it at firelink is because of the attachment we have to firelink as some sort of a "home base".

The way he stands with two other summons in Anor when you invade him is very similar to many player characters. Perhaps this area is where From predicted most ganking would happen through the Darkmoon covenant as opposed to the current situation as it is in the forest, and Lautrec seems like the kinda **** that would gank to me.

Food for thought.

Sorry, but things keep popping up in my head.

Thinking about what i've said about how similar Lautrec is to the player character, and what people have said before about just missing some key thing to get the ball rolling with a storyline ingame or whatever, this is what I was thinking;

Miyazaki said in an interview when asked about fighting Gwyn with Solaire that Solaire still has to make the choice of lighting the flame or walking away in his own world in his own time. Now, what if this is the same for Lautrec and we need to find a way to help him throughout the game to summon him for Gwyn so when he makes his choice in his own world and we both go into NG+ into our prospective cells and.... I dono that's as far as my thought goes.

Oh I like this! Unfortunately for us our second interaction with Lautrec outside of summons is as a spirit of vengeance. There has to be something before Lautrec takes out anastacia. Its hard to imagine that were to simply ignore him.

Also, fireLESS do you happen to have links to the interview(s)? I always hear folks talking about them, but I've never read through them, .

speaking of Lautrec's adventures…where the frell does he go?

every once in a while, after i return to Firelink, Lautrec will have buggered off somewhere without killing the Firekeeper. which i think only occurs if you nab the firekeeper soul found in blight town or after you have rung both bells…but before that happens, Lautrec pulls a vanishing act only to appear back in Firelink a little while latter?

sorta like Patches' appearing in the Catacombs if you go down there before Rhea shows up in Firelink, perhaps Lautrec moves to a new location that we have yet to find? perhaps if we can find this other location, we can figure this out?

EDIT…Lautrec and Solaire might also have a connection because for the first bit of your play through, the two of them are usually found pretty close together (Parish and then Depths) and perhaps Lautrec gets the sunlight medal he gives you from Solaire?

Nybbles wrote:speaking of Lautrec's adventures…where the frell does he go?

every once in a while, after i return to Firelink, Lautrec will have buggered off somewhere without killing the Firekeeper. which i think only occurs if you nab the firekeeper soul found in blight town or after you have rung both bells…but before that happens, Lautrec pulls a vanishing act only to appear back in Firelink a little while latter?

sorta like Patches' appearing in the Catacombs if you go down there before Rhea shows up in Firelink, perhaps Lautrec moves to a new location that we have yet to find? perhaps if we can find this other location, we can figure this out?

You know, I've never noticed this! I always just grab the firekeeper soul before gargoyles and then go to kill quelaag and he's gone. I should start a new no bonfire, but just leave all fire keeper souls then, before ringing the second bell go and talk to him. Maybe there's something different there.

If u kill gwyndolin and extinguish all the fires (bar the e dragon) and THEN invade lautrec maybe he wont be hostile?

Great thread. Odd thought popped into my head. Has anyone tried invading lautrec and dropping a fire keepers soul in his world before crystalling out?

Yes sir, I just tried it yesterday. I also dropped the Pendant a couple of times but nothing happens.
Personally, I belive that in order to trigger the undiscovered events, we don't have to drop items in various places because no other trigger works like that.
Making a no-death run with no bonfire at all and killing all the Firekeepers and not placing the Lordvessel seems like a more plausible situation to make something to happen, as I don't think anyone made a no-death run until the Lordvessel.
I'm also intrigued by the "Gravelord Servant" boss found in the text dump.
Well, I belive the DLC will give us many answers, and if not, the PC version will probably be hacked 'till the roots in order to find stuff that hasn't been discovered in the game.

Chr0m3 wrote:I'm also intrigued by the "Gravelord Servant" boss found in the text dump.
Well, I belive the DLC will give us many answers, and if not, the PC version will probably be hacked 'till the roots in order to find stuff that hasn't been discovered in the game.

i had found a "gravelord event" within the game a long time ago, if you play offline when you go to the painted world for the first time, their are black phantom mobs everywhere. i never was able to find a gravelord sign though. and this only happened while offline so it was definitely not a multi-player event (i was disconnected from my ISP at the time)

oh…and this only happened to me during my pre-patch play through and after not finding a gravelord sign, i just killed Pris, left and never went back that play through. i have no idea if this event still occurs post-patch or not, i've never tried to duplicate it in 1.5. maybe i'll do that during my fireLESS run.