Extinguish the bonfires. No bonfire run

I just read this entire forum for the last few hours. It's blown every part of my mind and I am so mad I don't have the skill to help you with this. I'm going to try a no bonfire run, though I don't expect much in way of results. I will get a picture of the unstable bonfire if it occurs. I never thought much of Dark Souls until today and now I'm hooked. Less and Rynn, you guys are truly pioneers here. Keep it up.

Also, Less. You had your order backwards if you were going by the opening cinematic. It was Gwyn's bolts, the witches storms and then nito's plague. All ending with Seath's betrayal. Figured I'd throw that out there just in case.

Jorund wrote:But Rynn, didn't you say you saw a very slight change in one of Lautrec's diags in one of your NG7s (maybe not the exact number, but up there) or something?

Fireless, Rynn, let me know if there's anything you need me to test that you guys might be too busy for, either here or in a PM. I'm on summer break and have lots of time to test things out and whatnot, whether it's no bonfire stuff or full bonfire stuff or whatever.

I never listened to Lautrec carefully enough, as this set of dialog apparently gets said every other time, regardless of my character, it had just felt funny that he said "for freeing me again" when we never should have met before then, so I felt it related.

Also I'm generally PvPing via the forest covenant, so if I still have time to PvP, I'd have enough time to do any additional testing I felt like.

Eolan wrote:The point is about ng + is that for each time you finish the game, one of the bonfires will randomly extinguish. If you have already extinguished every other bonfire, then the one that will extinguish should be the ever lasting dragons.

Isn't that a bit too much speculation? However... if a bonfire goes out in each NG+, then I have a question: If I've had no bonfires lit, and a bonfire grows weaker in each NG+, then is it at all possible my actions have no destabilized 3 bonfires?

Darkson wrote:*AHEM*

Rynn? Record your "unstable" bonfires? PLEASE?

I don't want to be demanding, but... yes, actually I do want to be demanding!!!!!!!!!!

I'd love to, but I lack a camera. In addition, I went to the next NG+, and so I have no reason to be certain that my unstable bonfire will not be stable once more when I get back.

Is anyone on this forum also a member of another Dark Souls related forum? We might want to expand this to other eyes... several of them might start a no bonfire playthrough just for the sake of the challenge, and then we might start getting things done faster.

This is great. Everyone. Thanks Rynn for keeping up with us here.

Personally, I think we can keep this to our nice forum here and come out victorious. People can view this and try runs without speaking up, and I am certain that they do. I also don't want to bother with another account and also continue here. It will get hairy to keep it cohesive. If the general consensus is to move the conversation, maybe start a new thread, then I would be okay with that. Thanks again to everyone who is posting, no bonfire running, and in general keeping "the dream" alive.

My name, is Rynn.

I am going to periodically refresh the Edragon death list below. I also want to get some thoughts out. Mostly a recap for new-coming viewers, but also helpful to keep us on point.

At the moment three predominate theories regarding the "Stone (everlasting) Dragon" bonfire are being discussed.
The first is the classic.
1) Kill him using guidance from the introduction and weapon/item descriptions. See List below. I will repost this list periodically. Allowing for us to think about a final build, so to speak.


2) FADE the bonfires over time and NG++etc.. No reason we cant try the first theory if this one is true. Mixed reports here. I agree with Rynn that it does NOT appear that ONE fire extinguishes miraculously in each NG+ (although it would be nice if this was confirmed true). It DOES seem to me that the at least *some* (mainly above the hollow tree) of the bonfires get duller after killing fire keepers. Rynn has previously reported that in an NG++ no bonfire run, he lit the bonfire at the top of the great hollow and it stated something including the words "UNSTABLE" and "BONFIRE" (look at previous posts), and thankfully, the bonfire went back out. This has yet to be confirmed.

3) Meaning of the pendant. The third potential way of killing that Edragon is by understanding the pendant, using it maybe.
AT THE PRESENT TIME, I dont think this is the case. I think its meaning is that the firstborn son of Gwyn tried to go against his father by extinguishing the fires. He went down toward NITO(back in the day) to find the same book in the "annals" that rhea and seath want now. I believe that the book has guidance on both extinguishing the fires AND making permanent the fires. When the firstborn son went down there, a battle thus insued, that led to the "loss of the annals". Seath wants this book, such that he can make permanent the age of fire. That is the meaning of the pendant, in my mind. Understanding the pendant meant UNDERSTANDING THE EXTINGUISH BONFIRE RUN.


It could be a combination of all three ideas. I have expressed this thought earlier. The dragon perhaps weakens, as we grow stronger. I like this idea personally.
It then emerged the idea that we should eat the boss/lord souls?? Still unsure what to do with these bosssouls. Rynn I take it that you been using them freely on weapons and souls?

hey guys all this hype has got my jimmies ruffled and i would like to help if possible. IDK if im pro enough to complete the bonfire less run but I wanna give it a shot so I can see the unstable message. Besides not lighting bonfires what else should I do.

"Nito, the first of the dead
The Witch of Izalith, and her daughters of chaos
Gwyn, the Lord of Sunlight, and his faithful knights
And the furtive pygmy, so easily forgotten
With the Strength of Lords, they challenged the dragons.
Gwyn's mighty bolts peeled apart their stone scales
The witches weaved great firestorms
Nito unleashed a miasma of death and disease
And Seath the Scaleless betrayed his own, and the dragons were no more
Thus began the Age of Fire"

Gwyn. Mighty bolts.
**Sunlight spear** "In the war that marked the dawn of the Age of Fire, Gwyn wielded these rays of sunlight, which remains fierce even as they fade"
reqs: NG+ (Gwyn soul) /Faith 50/ Slot cost 2 / (Warrior of sunlight covenant +1)

Witches weaved great firestorms
**Fire Tempest** "the tempestuous raging flames resemble those summoned by the daughters of chaos"
reqs: fire upgrades / Slot cost 1

Nito. Unleashed Miasma of Death and Disease
**Gravelord sword** "miasma of death exudes from the sword."
something for "miasma of disease"? Toxic and poison mist dont give descriptions going back to the ancient war. I think the "disease" is the poison miasming out of the sword.
reqs: demon titanite/ 24 strength, 13 dext. joining gravelord servants.

Seath the Scaleless "and seath betrayed his own"
**Moonlight greatsword**
"This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, came from the tail of Seath the Scaleless, the pale white dragon who betrayed his own...Seath is the grandfather of sorcery, and this sword is imbued with his magic, which shall be unleashed as a wave of moonlight."
reqs: dragon scales upgrade, 16/10/28/- , cutting the tail of seath

**Crystal soul spear**
"These pale magic spears, sharpened through crystallization, are on par with the armaments of the ancient lords"
reqs: int=44, one slot, buy from logan

**White dragon breath**
"Sorcery developed by Logan during his infatuation with Seath the Scaleless. Emit crystal breath of Seath the Scaleless. Although it no longer causes curses, what madness caused old Big Hat to appropriate this frightful power of the ancient dragons?"
reqs: int=50, 1 slot.

Pygmy
Helped in the battle? Not sure what it used or what it was or if it even matters... Could be priscillas dagger upgraded... It could be our progenitor. Not too worried about this. I simply include it here because I dont want to leave this pygmy "easily forgotten".

matthewm7 wrote:hey guys all this hype has got my jimmies ruffled and i would like to help if possible. IDK if im pro enough to complete the bonfire less run but I wanna give it a shot so I can see the unstable message. Besides not lighting bonfires what else should I do.

Make a female character just in case that's related, and take the pendant as your gift.
Otherwise do whatever you want, as that's all I've done.

Hey Rynn and Fireless,
I was wondering about rynn's lautrec, (the again thing), and was going to try a few things with him, like not invading him at all on a playthrough.
Have you always done the same per playthrough? i.e. kill him and keep the soul or any variety?

I did choose a male character, but female is probably better for testing Rynn's bonfire message. I also choose the pendant. Its rather easy to do this with all the shortcuts the game provides. I dont think there are any other requirements at the moment, other than simply not lighting bonfires. You are allowed to sit and level up at ONLY firekeeper fires. You should kill them when you deem appropriate. I would test it at the same bonfire as Rynn also (top of great hollow). To perform an exact test, you will need NG+ runs.

Probably just a coincidence, but ya know the alter which we place the lordvessel on? It looks like a tree trunk.

baby_beavis wrote:Hey Rynn and Fireless,
I was wondering about rynn's lautrec, (the again thing), and was going to try a few things with him, like not invading him at all on a playthrough.
Have you always done the same per playthrough? i.e. kill him and keep the soul or any variety?

My first playthrough I killed him at the first meeting in the parish, because I need his ring for my build. Every other playthrough I've never bothered to even invade him, I just let him live and keep her soul every other time, because I don't need it.

Rynn wrote:

baby_beavis wrote:Hey Rynn and Fireless,
I was wondering about rynn's lautrec, (the again thing), and was going to try a few things with him, like not invading him at all on a playthrough.
Have you always done the same per playthrough? i.e. kill him and keep the soul or any variety?

My first playthrough I killed him at the first meeting in the parish, because I need his ring for my build. Every other playthrough I've never bothered to even invade him, I just let him live and keep her soul every other time, because I don't need it.

Im on my first game. I let him kill her, then I invaded and acquired the firekeeper soul. Just in case the firekeeper soul has some significance. I currently carry all 7.

So, on my first ever run, Firelink Shrine never had it's bonfire die. I kept it as a hub for the entire playthrough.

Any builds that ease this process? I'm willing to give this a go with everyone, especially after this whole "unstable" thing. Also, the idea is to keep all bonfires extinguished and use the firekeepers to level? I should extinguish the firekeepers right before I kill gwyn? Am I looking to kill the stonedragon? Thanks for the info. I don't have the best ability to record, but am still able to so, so anything I find will be recorded and posted.

I'm definitely not the most knowledgeable person regarding this topic. I'm sure this has been suggested before... haven't seen it mentioned recently.

Dragonslayer spear?

I think the earlier you extinguish the bonfires, the better.
Much like how in Seigmeyers quest, you can do it "late" by not talking to him in Sens, but if you do, it takes him 2 real life hours to go to Anor Londo, then 2 Real Life hours to go to Firelink, then 2 real life hours to go to the Izalith, then 2 hours to get to Blight Town... then 30 minutes to get to Ash Lake....

So I'd kill them as soon as you see them... might help.

i just realized how annoying BOC is gonna be using only bonfires manned by keepers. any advice or tips

Pull out a bow and snipe it.
Alternatively, exit to the menu after hitting each piece

And keep the daughter of chaos bf litted until you kill boc. Give her 30 humanities to open the shortcut to lost izalith.
Well that's what I would do.

Seems like the best thing for new researchers to do would be to go through as many New Games as is necessary to maximize the strength of your estus flask, open the Shortcut to Izalith and ascend your Pyromancy flame as soon as possible. If you extinguish a bonfire that you would auto-revive at, like the one at Anor Londo, do you still re-appear next to it with all of the estus flask reinforcements from prior games?

if you respawn at a bonfire, even if it is out, you'll get as many flasks as you would have gotten if it's not out.

Rynn wrote:Every other playthrough I've never bothered to even invade him, I just let him live and keep her soul every other time, because I don't need it.

I think this an important point here dude.
For one, we need him to extinguish that bonfire. Two, he calls us a moth and stupider than we look when we invade him. He is actually helping us here. Maybe that's why you got "again" in his dialogue? He still knows you in the previous ng or something?

I definitely think a key point here is leaving Lautrec alive, due to much of what has been mentioned by Beavis. I mean, Lautrec is obviously sort of on the same quest as us. "This firekeeper has served me well, but I'm finished with her" or something along those lines is something he says.

Just like you guys keep the firekeepers around when you need to level and stuff--but eventually you're done with them and kill them.

Wouldn't it be crazy if you save Lautrec in every NG and something drastic changes--like he realizes you're on his side? Rynn, what's your progress in your new NG now?

Jorund wrote:I definitely think a key point here is leaving Lautrec alive, due to much of what has been mentioned by Beavis. I mean, Lautrec is obviously sort of on the same quest as us. "This firekeeper has served me well, but I'm finished with her" or something along those lines is something he says.

Just like you guys keep the firekeepers around when you need to level and stuff--but eventually you're done with them and kill them.

Wouldn't it be crazy if you save Lautrec in every NG and something drastic changes--like he realizes you're on his side? Rynn, what's your progress in your new NG now?

Oh, I've made no progress. I'm forest hunting on the char and enjoying PvP right now.