Extinguish the bonfires. No bonfire run

Very fair, Rynn. Take 5. Or all day. Heck, you've already contributed so much. Thank you!

Just beat O&S, all firekeepers are dead. Should I turn the lord vessel in to kaathe or frampt. I ask cause were extinguishing and it seems appropriate to turn it into kaathe, all things considered.

MudoRH wrote:Just beat O&S, all firekeepers are dead. Should I turn the lord vessel in to kaathe or frampt. I ask cause were extinguishing and it seems appropriate to turn it into kaathe, all things considered.

I always just jump down the hole and turn it into noone, I'm obviously serving myself.

I've actually never spoken to Kaathe; does he ever say anything about going against the gods, extinguishing, etc?

Sorry for copying off the wikidot wiki. But they just have all the dialogues perfectly.


First meeting:

Greetings Undead Warrior
I am the Primordial Serpent Darkstalker Kaathe
I can guide thee, and illuminate the truth.
Undead Warrior, conqueror of the Four Kings, is this not your wish?
To know the truth of men, and the Undead?

Yes:

A wise choice, Undead warrior.
Prove you must, that the truth becomes you.
Seek Anor Londo.
And claim Gwyn's heirloom, the Lordvessel.
Now go, Undead warrior.
Show the world that the truth becomes you.

No:

… Very well.
Warriors as yourself are few. I will be patient.
But I cannot wait forever…

----

What is it?
Perhaps you have changed your mind?

Yes:

Ahh…
If you wish, I shall grant the art of Lifedrain,
the legendary power of the Dark Lord.
It can preserve your humanity while Undead,
and cast off the shackles placed upon your brethren.

Talk:

Undead warrior.
To speak now is premature.
It begins with your retrieval of the Lordvessel.

Bringing the Lordvessel to Kathe:

Hmm… You are astonishing.
The truth I shall share without sentiment.
After the advent of fire, the ancient lords found the three souls.
But your progenitor found a fourth, unique soul.
The Dark Soul.
Your ancestor claimed the Dark Soul and waited for Fire to subside.
And soon, the flames did fade, and only Dark remained.
Thus began the age of men, the Age of Dark.
However…
Lord Gwyn trembled at the Dark.
Clinging to his Age of Fire, and in dire fear of humans,
and the Dark Lord who would one day be born amongst them,
Lord Gwyn resisted the course of nature.
By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans,
Gwyn has blurred your past, to prevent the birth of the Dark Lord.
I am the primordial serpent.
I seek to right the wrongs of the past to discover our true Lord.
But the other serpent, Frampt, lost his sense, and befriended Lord Gwyn.
Undead warrior, we stand at the crossroad.
Only I know the truth about your fate.
You must destroy the fading Lord Gwyn, who has coddled Fire and resisted nature,
and become the Fourth Lord, so that you may usher in the Age of Dark!

No:

Fool... you could not be the Dark Lord.
Enough of this... and farewell to you.
I shall return to the Abyss, and await the true Lord of Men.

Yes:

Very well
I shall now guide you to Gwyn's Prison
Be still. Entrust thine flesh to me.

After being transported to Firelink Altar:

This is Gwyn's prison.
Now, place the Lordvessel upon the altar.

---------

What is it? Place the Lordvessel upon the altar.

After placing the Lordvessel:

Very well.
Once the vessel is filled with souls, the gate to Gwyn shall open.
Seek Gravelord Nito, the Witch of Izalith, and the traitor Seath the Scaleless.
Fill this vessel with their souls.
Then, the gate will open… so that you may kill Gwyn.
…
Are you ready?
Then, let us return to the Abyss. Entrust thine flesh to me.

Greeting (when the Lordvessel is placed)

What is it?
I'm your guardian.
Go on, state your wish.

When leaving:

Farewell.

Talk Option (when the Lordvessel is placed):

They failed me, every last one of them.
They were strong, but saw not the truth.
I am certain that you will prove different.

When attacked or after placing the Lordvessel for Frampt:

Fool… You could not be the Dark Lord.
Enough of this… and farewell to you.
I shall return to the Abyss, and await the true Lord of Men.

Something like that. Kaathe wants the rise of the dark lord and considering the endings I thought kaathe may be the way to go. I'll give kaathe a try if not I'll go through it once more and turn it in myself. Also, am I leaving Lautrec alive. I didn't invade him before O&S cause I was reading what you guys were saying about his survival maybe contributing to the no bonnie cause.

After reading Kaathe's dialogue (thank you, Darkson) I started thinking: maybe the true age of men only comes when ALL the fires are out. I mean, sure, we have the Dark Lord ending, but... I don't know, I'm only speculating. Would just be interesting if the "truth" Kaathe is always referring to is the extinguishing of ALL the fires.

Jorund wrote:After reading Kaathe's dialogue (thank you, Darkson) I started thinking: maybe the true age of men only comes when ALL the fires are out. I mean, sure, we have the Dark Lord ending, but... I don't know, I'm only speculating. Would just be interesting if the "truth" Kaathe is always referring to is the extinguishing of ALL the fires.

Lore indicates that once we kill the lord of cinders and don't light the flame, that all the other flames slowly die, bringing the age of man. Killing all the fires before killing the lord of cinders would just speed the process up.

Lautrec is definitely on a run like ours. He gave me the idea to do it in the first place. The reason I DO kill him, is because of the fire-keeper souls. He kills the firelink shrine keeper after you get 2 or 3 firekeeper souls. This tells me there is some significance to them.

Im glad I did kill him. Im also glad that others are not going to kill him. It is good, however that we note the differences between our runs. That way we get an answer, either way.

I also jumped down the hole, ignoring both serpents. They are liars, I wouldnt weigh too much into what they say.

Jorund wrote:After reading Kaathe's dialogue (thank you, Darkson) I started thinking: maybe the true age of men only comes when ALL the fires are out. I mean, sure, we have the Dark Lord ending, but... I don't know, I'm only speculating. Would just be interesting if the "truth" Kaathe is always referring to is the extinguishing of ALL the fires.

That's obviously what everyone is talking about in this thread.

Okay Rynn, makes total sense, but then what could be so significant about these no bonfire runs? I'm on your side, just trying to make sense of this...

Jorund wrote:Okay Rynn, makes total sense, but then what could be so significant about these no bonfire runs? I'm on your side, just trying to make sense of this...

We are extinguishing the flames and bringing on the age of man.

fireLESS wrote:
We are extinguishing the flames and bringing on the age of man.

Sounds so ******* epic man!!

But when you take the Dark Lord ending, you bring on the age of man, too.

Firekeeper souls are somehow important. They come from firekeepers. The ones that we find that are not around bonfires are probably firekeepers that have died or had their fires go out.
Personally, I think we should get all 7 on every game.

These words are written on the firekeeper soul for firelink shrine: "Was the Ash Maiden locked in this dark prison for some transgression, or by her own will?" I believe she has spoken to another keeper. Thus, she is ashamed and mute.

Jorund wrote:But when you take the Dark Lord ending, you bring on the age of man, too.

I dont think so. Thats just you becoming the recipient of the linked fires. Sort of like the new Gwyn in town. The serpent is a liar. (just my opinion.)

In Dukes Prison harvesting humanity. I have not killed Seath yet, but I have freed Logan and bought his spells. This spot in the game reminds me of the painted world. You dont have a fire and you are forced to respawn at that location with only 1 flask. I bet you could go for seath from here, instead of New Londo, but after harvesting humanity for awhile, I racked up a ton of souls.
I dont think I will risk them on a run to take seath out.
I am now about to make a run all the way from the prison to the lord vessel, just to use a bonfire.
Ha, this is fun.

I agree with fireLESS and Rynn that the serpents may be inconsequential or decievers, but the fact remains that each represents the only two paths in the game. Link the fires or extinguish the fires. I think the endings may be a taste of what true endings there are. Extinguish all fires and choose to become dark lord or fully kindle all fires and choose to link them. All speculation of course, but rings of truth, .

So far I've killed all fire keepers and haven't lit one bonfire. Killed booby lady and am sitting at frampt contemplating who to give it to. I'll continue my run after lunch!

MudoRH wrote:I agree with fireLESS and Rynn that the serpents may be inconsequential or decievers, but the fact remains that each represents the only two paths in the game. Link the fires or extinguish the fires. I think the endings may be a taste of what true endings there are. Extinguish all fires and choose to become dark lord or fully kindle all fires and choose to link them. All speculation of course, but rings of truth, .

So far I've killed all fire keepers and haven't lit one bonfire. Killed booby lady and am sitting at frampt contemplating who to give it to. I'll continue my run after lunch!

I know, it rings of truth! The more you play without lighting the bonfires, the more you see that they echo the real truths. I stressed this point earlier. A fully kindle run is the opposite run of the fully extinguish.
In essence: Rhea vs Lautrec.

The game was almost called "Dark race" and was later changed because of the obvious negative connotations.

You are much better than me at this game, to be making this much progress!

Yup ive been thinking its reah vs lautrec...

The only troubling thing for you mate, is that maybe your just doing another gods bidding...

Fina


You should wear lautrec's armor as well...

What if you also need to have the 'Dark Lord' platinum achievement ??

Does anything change when you have all achievements and do the 'bad' ending?

fireLESS, I just opened the elevator shortcut back to firelink. Keeping the firekeeper soul is good, yes? Just want to know if I'm able to reinforce my estus flask.

fireLESS wrote:

MudoRH wrote:I agree with fireLESS and Rynn that the serpents may be inconsequential or decievers, but the fact remains that each represents the only two paths in the game. Link the fires or extinguish the fires. I think the endings may be a taste of what true endings there are. Extinguish all fires and choose to become dark lord or fully kindle all fires and choose to link them. All speculation of course, but rings of truth, .

So far I've killed all fire keepers and haven't lit one bonfire. Killed booby lady and am sitting at frampt contemplating who to give it to. I'll continue my run after lunch!

I know, it rings of truth! The more you play without lighting the bonfires, the more you see that they echo the real truths. I stressed this point earlier. A fully kindle run is the opposite run of the fully extinguish.
In essence: Rhea vs Lautrec.

The game was almost called "Dark race" and was later changed because of the obvious negative connotations.

You are much better than me at this game, to be making this much progress!

I simply play far too much, . Upgrading is what's getting to me, .

Anywho, about to start up again. I believe I'll keep Lautrec alive, seems pretty legit, but I am curious about wearing his armor. Demon's Souls had an event triggered by equipment so maybe dark souls does too!

So I was just reading about siegmeyer's quest line and he ultimately ends up at the bonfire after the great hollow. There's got to be a reason he's there.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Cynic wrote:fireLESS, I just opened the elevator shortcut back to firelink. Keeping the firekeeper soul is good, yes? Just want to know if I'm able to reinforce my estus flask.

I wouldnt use them. I havent boosted any flasks, and I have not spent any firekeeper souls, because I do not know the significance of them. AT THE MOMENT, I think actually do have significance. Simply because Lautrec kills her after you get 2 or 3 of them, and because he does keep anastacia's. So I am sort of, collecting them, the way Lautrec does.

Rynn and MudoRH seem to be less concerned with these. They are letting Lautrec live and in doing so, he receives one of the firekeeper souls. This may, or may not matter. I like the idea of keeping him alive since he is on the same mission as we are. I think we dont really know yet.

Perhaps you could use them as estus boosts without any effect whatsoever.