Would you consider this cheap?

    Share
    avatar
    Carphil
    Chat Moderator

    Posts : 4921
    Reputation : 90
    Join date : 2012-01-17
    Age : 21
    Location : Brazil

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Carphil on Sun May 06, 2012 9:51 pm

    Nothing is reward for nothing this is PVP, where anything goes, the honour or cheap things are made by duelers and no one else. Invaders and frightened hosts don't care about being honourable as long as they survive. I don't know why From put the "bow" command if no one use it. Thats why I consider everyone who bows before the battle (assuming that bow after battle may seem as a taunt these days) are good players and deserve a clean fight.


    _________________
    It may take a day or ten thousand years, but I will find her. This is a promise.

    I'm not the chosen one, I'm the one who chose to be more.

    Carphil_BR on PSN :bas:
    avatar
    Glutebrah
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1942
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Glutebrah on Sun May 06, 2012 9:58 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:All attacks have set parameters to use and defend. Some may be easier to landthan others but there's no such thing as cheap in a fight. The basis of all martial arts is efficacy first. The reward for a parry, block, dodge or anything is what you make of it. In real life my instructor told me to follow any successful shoulder throw with an arm bar. And then shatter their elbow. All while never allowing them a chance to blink. Sound familiar? Successful combat is oppression plain and simple. Why should it be different digitally?

    There is no defense to a backstab as your character gets up if their timing is correct. So if you are in a martial arts tourbament duel you are going to shatter your opponents elbow???

    I am argueing with a troll... im done.


    _________________
    Chaos Blade is Best Blade

    **NEW**PSN: Glute_brah **NEW**
    SL 55 (Ele) http://mmdks.com/2b2g (Avelyn + WP)
    SL100 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/25vk (Chaos Blade)
    SL100 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2b2h (MSGS)
    SL100 (Pyro) http://mmdks.com/2b2l (FIRE)
    SL120 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2n6r (DGA)
    SL120 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/2n6v (murk) i did it, i sold out
    SL150 (Int) http://mmdks.com/25vm (Velkas + TCC)
    SL149 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2q (Black Knight)
    SL200 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2j (Ornstein)
    avatar
    FruitPunchNinja
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2770
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-03-12
    Age : 28
    Location : East Coast , USA

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 10:01 pm

    Glutebrah i understand you disagree, but try to be respectful. i hope to never see someone say "not sure if trolling or stupid..." again in these forums. we have an overall friendly community here and a lot of recent forums i have been seeing these sarcastic type comments. no offense, ive said many sarcastic disrespectful things on the internet. lets just try to keep that type of behavior on you tube and out of these forums.
    avatar
    DamageCK
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1768
    Reputation : 64
    Join date : 2012-04-15
    Age : 32
    Location : NC

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun May 06, 2012 10:03 pm

    It's also important to note that chain BS's aren't indefensible. I don't want to make an argument for chains, not including the aforementioned circumstances, which personally permit them. But I also can't help but to acknowledge that it's not all that difficult to get out of. Same with any other "cheap" tactic. Not only that, but a lot of that stuff can be punished pretty easily. Look at the parry stories post. A lot of that are about getting parries while the baddies circle around you for a wake up BS.

    In that respect, I think skare's argument has merit. If I were to get a riposte and my next move were to reposition behind you for a BS, an easy counter would be to roll into me to escape. If you don't employ said tactic, it's not the opponemt's fault that you didn't (a) know the method (b) use it.


    _________________
    Like a boss.
    avatar
    Glutebrah
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1942
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Glutebrah on Sun May 06, 2012 10:06 pm

    If you are able to roll to escape the backstab it is because he timed it poorly, not because you prevented it.

    The success of the backstab is in the hands od the back stabber. Obviously you want to roll asap, but that is to limit the window he has to backstab you, not prevent it. There is always a small frame that you cant prevent


    _________________
    Chaos Blade is Best Blade

    **NEW**PSN: Glute_brah **NEW**
    SL 55 (Ele) http://mmdks.com/2b2g (Avelyn + WP)
    SL100 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/25vk (Chaos Blade)
    SL100 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2b2h (MSGS)
    SL100 (Pyro) http://mmdks.com/2b2l (FIRE)
    SL120 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2n6r (DGA)
    SL120 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/2n6v (murk) i did it, i sold out
    SL150 (Int) http://mmdks.com/25vm (Velkas + TCC)
    SL149 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2q (Black Knight)
    SL200 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2j (Ornstein)

    Majikero07
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 152
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-04-29
    Location : Maryland

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Majikero07 on Sun May 06, 2012 10:06 pm

    I don't care about clean fights anymore, as long as they kill me in a different ways. It makes it more interesting. Wrath of God spam seems rare these days so no comment on that. Everyone else seems content to smash me with Smough's hammer or that giant club thing or some other huge *** weapon. Today was an interesting day at the forest.
    avatar
    FruitPunchNinja
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2770
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-03-12
    Age : 28
    Location : East Coast , USA

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 10:09 pm

    I agree damage. lets be real tho a lot of the counters that people say are "easy" actually have a high rate of failure which is why the original strategy is so op and overused. for example what you described, being able to do a perfect 180 degree turn and parry and time that all correctly is somewhat difficult and easy to mess up. another example would be roll bs to counter wrath. a lot of these depend on a decent connection cause lag can easily make it 10x more difficult to pull off. I do agree that everything has some way to counter it.
    avatar
    FruitPunchNinja
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2770
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-03-12
    Age : 28
    Location : East Coast , USA

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 10:11 pm

    oh and there is another way to counter chain bs that im sure a lot of people learned from PhantomEWGF or w.e his name is. if you just dont press anything(i mean anything you have to be careful) when you rise up you are not able to be bs and the opponent will just land a normal blow.
    avatar
    DamageCK
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1768
    Reputation : 64
    Join date : 2012-04-15
    Age : 32
    Location : NC

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun May 06, 2012 10:13 pm

    It's also important to note that chain BS's aren't indefensible. I don't want to make an argument for chains, not including the aforementioned circumstances, which personally permit them. But I also can't help but to acknowledge that it's not all that difficult to get out of. Same with any other "cheap" tactic. Not only that, but a lot of that stuff can be punished pretty easily. Look at the parry stories post. A lot of them are about getting parries while the baddies circle around you for a wake up BS.

    In that respect, I think skare's argument has merit. If I were to get a riposte and my next move was to reposition behind you for a BS, an easy counter would be to roll into me to escape. If you don't employ said tactic, it's not the opponent's fault that you didn't (a) know the method (b) use it. You can apply this logic to having been BSed in the first place, as well. If you don't want to get BSed, learn the counters. If you don't know and/or use them, it's your fault. And yeah, that's a bummer, but it's also reality. This game is built on tactics and the counters to them. The player who best utilizes them will prevail. The vast majority of the game's mechanics don't factor in things like guilt and fairplay. They are fundamentally optional. However, counters are a part of the mechanic, so USE THEM.

    Okay, think I'm finally done now. Hahaha.


    _________________
    Like a boss.
    avatar
    DamageCK
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1768
    Reputation : 64
    Join date : 2012-04-15
    Age : 32
    Location : NC

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun May 06, 2012 10:14 pm

    Sorry, guys. Meant to edit previous post and accidentally double posted instead. Stupid phone...


    _________________
    Like a boss.
    avatar
    Imarreteet23
    Caffeinated
    Caffeinated

    Posts : 837
    Reputation : 34
    Join date : 2012-03-16
    Age : 21
    Location : The Great Perhaps

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Imarreteet23 on Sun May 06, 2012 10:14 pm

    First of all, for any of you who didn't see my earlier post, I won't be using this riposte/backstab thing. It is cheap and unfair. I won't use it in 1v1s, and not in 3v1s. Never.

    Ok, now for Skare and Glute. If I understand your aurgument correctly, then you are essentially aurguing about the ethinics of fighting, namely Dark Souls PvP? Don't augure about that, because it isn't worth it. On the one hand, it is a video game, and really, as skare said, in a fight, anything goes. On the other hand though, Dark Souls has a strict honor system set up by the players. Amongst these is that chain backstabing really isn't ok. This aurgument cannot be won by anyone, because there is no right answer. It is a stale mate for both sides. Keep it civil, people.


    _________________
    There will usually be a time where I realise that my day simply cannot get any better, that the rest of the day will only get worse. This usually happens while playing Dark Souls


    Stay nerdy, my friends.
    avatar
    Glutebrah
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1942
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Glutebrah on Sun May 06, 2012 10:15 pm

    FruitPunchNinja wrote:oh and there is another way to counter chain bs that im sure a lot of people learned from PhantomEWGF or w.e his name is. if you just dont press anything(i mean anything you have to be careful) when you rise up you are not able to be bs and the opponent will just land a normal blow.

    That is interesting and explains why me and mofo couldnt do chain back stabs the other night to each other... but who wantst stand still to be stun locked my an ultra great weapon?


    _________________
    Chaos Blade is Best Blade

    **NEW**PSN: Glute_brah **NEW**
    SL 55 (Ele) http://mmdks.com/2b2g (Avelyn + WP)
    SL100 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/25vk (Chaos Blade)
    SL100 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2b2h (MSGS)
    SL100 (Pyro) http://mmdks.com/2b2l (FIRE)
    SL120 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2n6r (DGA)
    SL120 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/2n6v (murk) i did it, i sold out
    SL150 (Int) http://mmdks.com/25vm (Velkas + TCC)
    SL149 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2q (Black Knight)
    SL200 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2j (Ornstein)
    avatar
    Glutebrah
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1942
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Glutebrah on Sun May 06, 2012 10:18 pm

    Imarreteet23 wrote:First of all, for any of you who didn't see my earlier post, I won't be using this riposte/backstab thing. It is cheap and unfair. I won't use it in 1v1s, and not in 3v1s. Never.

    Ok, now for Skare and Glute. If I understand your aurgument correctly, then you are essentially aurguing about the ethinics of fighting, namely Dark Souls PvP? Don't augure about that, because it isn't worth it. On the one hand, it is a video game, and really, as skare said, in a fight, anything goes. On the other hand though, Dark Souls has a strict honor system set up by the players. Amongst these is that chain backstabing really isn't ok. This aurgument cannot be won by anyone, because there is no right answer. It is a stale mate for both sides. Keep it civil, people.

    Im bored at work so i am having fun happy any i would use it in a 3v1,, if your able to with out the other 2 rushing you.

    Also comparing dark souls to real life is stupid.


    At the end of the day you gotta realize this, its a game. If you have fun 1-2 shotting people in a way they can not fight back, go for it.

    Me personlly i play the game to have fun not win at what ever cost possible. So i never use tatics that i find make it to easy. Win or lose, i had more fun then the kid who killed you with 1 hit hornets ring crit.


    Last edited by Glutebrah on Sun May 06, 2012 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    Chaos Blade is Best Blade

    **NEW**PSN: Glute_brah **NEW**
    SL 55 (Ele) http://mmdks.com/2b2g (Avelyn + WP)
    SL100 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/25vk (Chaos Blade)
    SL100 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2b2h (MSGS)
    SL100 (Pyro) http://mmdks.com/2b2l (FIRE)
    SL120 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2n6r (DGA)
    SL120 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/2n6v (murk) i did it, i sold out
    SL150 (Int) http://mmdks.com/25vm (Velkas + TCC)
    SL149 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2q (Black Knight)
    SL200 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2j (Ornstein)

    Majikero07
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 152
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-04-29
    Location : Maryland

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Majikero07 on Sun May 06, 2012 10:19 pm

    Isn't that still bad? If you survive the first killer stab, a normal blow will likely kill you so isn't that a moot point?
    avatar
    DamageCK
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1768
    Reputation : 64
    Join date : 2012-04-15
    Age : 32
    Location : NC

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun May 06, 2012 10:23 pm

    Majikero07 wrote:Isn't that still bad? If you survive the first killer stab, a normal blow will likely kill you so isn't that a moot point?

    Not if the alternative is another BS. Lesser of two evils kind of thing.


    _________________
    Like a boss.
    avatar
    FruitPunchNinja
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2770
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-03-12
    Age : 28
    Location : East Coast , USA

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 10:32 pm

    depends on the weapon. like glute said if its a greatsword your kinda out of luck. if its a dagger however it is very much worth it. a bandits +5 lightning doesnt do that much dmg with its normal R1 and thats very common to use for crit dmg.

    as for being dead after 1 backstab. Vit is very important which is another topic of what is cheap. I personally used to think people with a lot of vit were cheap.after i really started getting into making builds and mini maxing trying to get the best build i could i realized its not cheap is just part of making a good build. For me 50vit is the minimum for my normal builds i might go 40-45 if the build has something powerful up its sleeve to make up for it. Vit builds are very common lots of people use only elemental weapons and just go crazy with vit, but i think 50-60 is the most you should really ever consider for a lvl120 build. I bet a lot of people think i put WAY too much into vit while others agree or think elemental vit builds are better.
    avatar
    DamageCK
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1768
    Reputation : 64
    Join date : 2012-04-15
    Age : 32
    Location : NC

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun May 06, 2012 10:37 pm

    I always add plenty of vit to my builds. It's a huge factor in PvP. Nowadays my favorite builds skip intel and faith so I can stack vit/end/str/dex, and I've been markedly more successful with them.


    _________________
    Like a boss.
    avatar
    FruitPunchNinja
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2770
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-03-12
    Age : 28
    Location : East Coast , USA

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 10:49 pm

    dude damage me and you are on the same page. my newest build has fast become my favorite and it has 9int and 9faith. http://tinyurl.com/7wbz34r idk if you can see that on your phone. god do i wish the pyro flame could parry in while equipped in your left hand.

    edit:sometimes i switch pyro for something that can parry depending on my mood. i was at lvl 119 and i noticed putting 1 point into end allowed me to wear havels gauntlets and leggings and flip. perfect.

    Majikero07
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 152
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-04-29
    Location : Maryland

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Majikero07 on Sun May 06, 2012 10:55 pm

    Is using the ring of fog cheap? I use it to stalk people in the forest. It works quite well sometimes. I originally planned to mess people with a bow. Too bad I couldn't use the dragon bow.

    Is it bad that I'm having too much fun messing with people like that? My invasions usually last quite a while.
    avatar
    Glutebrah
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1942
    Reputation : 102
    Join date : 2012-01-18

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Glutebrah on Sun May 06, 2012 10:58 pm

    Majikero07 wrote:Is using the ring of fog cheap? I use it to stalk people in the forest. It works quite well sometimes. I originally planned to mess people with a bow. Too bad I couldn't use the dragon bow.

    Is it bad that I'm having too much fun messing with people like that? My invasions usually last quite a while.

    I dont think there is such a thing as a cheap piece of armor, weapon or spell. Some spells can be abused but that is cheap tatics.

    Ring of fog is fine imo


    _________________
    Chaos Blade is Best Blade

    **NEW**PSN: Glute_brah **NEW**
    SL 55 (Ele) http://mmdks.com/2b2g (Avelyn + WP)
    SL100 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/25vk (Chaos Blade)
    SL100 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2b2h (MSGS)
    SL100 (Pyro) http://mmdks.com/2b2l (FIRE)
    SL120 (Str) http://mmdks.com/2n6r (DGA)
    SL120 (Dex) http://mmdks.com/2n6v (murk) i did it, i sold out
    SL150 (Int) http://mmdks.com/25vm (Velkas + TCC)
    SL149 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2q (Black Knight)
    SL200 (Cos) http://mmdks.com/2b2j (Ornstein)
    avatar
    DamageCK
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1768
    Reputation : 64
    Join date : 2012-04-15
    Age : 32
    Location : NC

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun May 06, 2012 10:59 pm

    I would kill to be able to parry with it. I like having simplified builds. Keep pyro, skip miracles and sorcery. Pyro and target shield in offhand. Chaos Blade and shotel in right hand slots, and I keep the spear one slot down for menu toggling when someone is using a spear. I'm generally more conscious of what I'm doing. I know what I need to do in a given situation, and it's like a reflex now because everything is so simple.

    I dig the build, by the way. Looks a lot like mine would at 120. I went to 225 so I could join the 225 FC. I'm psyched.


    _________________
    Like a boss.
    avatar
    FruitPunchNinja
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2770
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-03-12
    Age : 28
    Location : East Coast , USA

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 11:00 pm

    lol majikero i can relate with that. i dont do it a lot but i was using ring of fog and dragon bow the other day and i felt like people thought i was being cheap. I love when people actually do something different especially if it draws the fight out, as long as its in a fun way. people who hide and are really good at it can be annoying. this one guy i barely ever caught a little glimpse and he was gone so i just blast crystal out. a lot of people do this and some message me and i just say "i dont feel like playing hide and seek".
    avatar
    DamageCK
    Hollowed
    Hollowed

    Posts : 1768
    Reputation : 64
    Join date : 2012-04-15
    Age : 32
    Location : NC

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun May 06, 2012 11:03 pm

    Majikero07 wrote:Is using the ring of fog cheap? I use it to stalk people in the forest. It works quite well sometimes. I originally planned to mess people with a bow. Too bad I couldn't use the dragon bow.

    Is it bad that I'm having too much fun messing with people like that? My invasions usually last quite a while.

    Now that it can be toggle locked, it's kind of a wasted slot. I mean, if you want to make it a little harder for me to see you, that's fine. Once you get within striking distance, the difference is basically negligible.


    _________________
    Like a boss.

    Majikero07
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 152
    Reputation : 4
    Join date : 2012-04-29
    Location : Maryland

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Majikero07 on Sun May 06, 2012 11:05 pm

    If I see only one guy and I'm sure he's not gonna run to the gate to summon, I swap out the fog ring to boost my pyro and then we duel. It was cool till some guy with a fog ring BS the host. Then I just back off till the host wins.
    avatar
    FruitPunchNinja
    Revived
    Revived

    Posts : 2770
    Reputation : 106
    Join date : 2012-03-12
    Age : 28
    Location : East Coast , USA

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun May 06, 2012 11:13 pm

    keeping your menus clean and easy to navigate is a very good strategy. Its like a behind the scene strategy that really isnt obvious but ends up being one of the more powerful tactics. I really like the pierce and spiked shield. they actually scale very well with str and dex and i can get 150dmg on the average person. if if i 2h it i can get 300. my build is based around pure physical dmg i love it. i have to thank rant because he was the one who got the idea in my head to do a str dex build. he sacrificed more vit then i did tho so he could 40/40 im still debating which i would have preferred .

    Sponsored content

    Re: Would you consider this cheap?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:06 am