For the Glory of Alvina

I have a name.....thanks to DLC rumors.....Forest of Darkness

Tolvo wrote:Alright, so I have a new weapon recommendation for forest hunters after doing some testing with it myself.

Murakumo: It is somewhat slow swinging and the damage isn't exactly spectacular, but the dead angling and huge arc of this weapon is great for Farmers. Now here is a heads up, this weapon is pretty easy to parry, if you suspect a parry go with a jumping strike, it will wreck them, possibly stagger, and open a window to hit. I use a Chaos Variant due to how I screwed up my character's stats, but I imagine +15 with a buff is actually very devastating, I'll do around 360-420 damage with each hit usually. If you are facing someone who looks like they are BS fishing switch this one out, because it is somewhat easy to punish. Now then, if you are against someone using a great shield this weapon is excellent. A particular tactic I love is causing them to funnel onto the bridge then I start with the dead angling, and destroy them with one Stamina Bar, it also can outright kill a decent amount of farmers with a BS when using the hornets ring, however I typically take the wolf ring with this sword. The reason being that to dead angle with it there will be a small window where you will take a hit, but just accept it. The fast that they are hitting you spells doom for them, because once you turn and start tearing in you will deal a massive amount of damage to them. It does eat up a lot of stamina, so I suggest at least a Glor, Child, or Grass Shield in the mix, or eating grass. For duels I find this weapon though to be very poor, due to how easy it is to punish and the fact that duellists are more likely to parry given their skill level as opposed to farmers.

I'm going to test this weapon out in the forest some more, if anyone wants to know about weapons and how they fair against farmers I'll equip it and test it out, mind you my character can't wield everything. I'm limited to 30 STR and 22 Dex, given how much I screwed up. But i find that certain weapons both have positives and negatives with the survival and group damage focus found in the forest, as well as the focus on critical hits getting in.

So as I said, I'll test weapons for people who are interested.

Tolvo - my primary weapon is a +15 Normal Murakumo. So far I have been invading with it for the last 4 weeks and it is devastating weapon. So far I have only been parried once and that was against a mod toon who had infinite health. Even though this weapon is slow - if you get in just one hit on anyone with less than 53-55 poise - they are pretty much stun-locked. Even if the toon has high enough poise and since my poise is high enough to take one hit from a greatsword class weapon I have killed a farmer (he had BKGA) by just trading blows with him. Now when you add a buff (CMW, poison, SLB) this weapon can OHK (except poison of course) most toons - I like using poison on the Murakumo because most people will turtle and let me get 2-3 hits in - they are so suprised when the poison effect kicks in (and they don't have antidote grass quick slotted). Plus the wide swinging arc in conjuntion with unlocked fighting style and you can kill two toons at one time if they don't watch their spacing (like on the bridge).

Also the running jumping attack is fantastic - since you can punish a host who is just hanging back plus the possibility of being parried with this attack is almosted reduced to zero (when a see a host using a greatshield I really go to town on them). I never use the stong attack because it's so slow - but you don't need that with this weapon (plus you may get killed). I realized the Murakumo was for me when I fought a couple of hosts using it and one of my hunters comrads simply got stun-locked into oblivion! I immediately knew this weapon was for me - I call it my equalizer in the forest. Also the strength requirement is what keeps most people from using it so you don't see it much which helps me greatly since most farmers don't know what it is capable of.

Throw in stamina grass, Child's mask, and Grass crest shield and you have the stamina to get in that final slash on your opponent when they have run out steam themselves.

It is a pretty great weapon, I'm glad to see someone with more experience give some tips with it, I wasn't sure entirely about the stun locking but if that is the case this is indeed an incredibly powerful weapon. Do you typically one hand or two hand it? I find myself almost exclusively two handing it for maximum damage when dead angling and for some reason the animation seems faster to me.

I'm going to dedicate a whole day trying to get a Channeler's Trident - will problably use it as my secondary weapon so I can throw a in mass buff for my hunter brethren (and the environmental enemies and NPCs) during invasions.

In regards to the name of the event - I don't really have an opinion the name (having a good ring to it would be nice) but I am willing to assist anyway possible to kick this thing off. We need to choose a date (maybe a full Saturday) to do our mass forest invasion. I am going to checking the Book of the Guilty (on XBOX) and send PMs to all hunters and GLs on the list to see if they want to participate. We need to get the word out to the hunters not to attack GLs during this period to give them an opportunity to create some black phantoms in the forest.

As I said before I can set-up a chat (for non-US participants) and voice bridge (for US based participants) so we can coordinate our assualt - command and communications will be key to this operation.

I am really stoked on doing this!

I know whatever the day is I'll be joining in, though to be fair I'd probably be hunting on that day anyway haha.

Nothing else pisses off a farmer quite like dancing on their dead body, I love doing that. That is reason enough for a Trident Broke, I wish you luck in getting one!

I was also wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the idea of maybe a costume for the event, to show those who are and aren't participating?

@Brokewilly: Great ideas regarding the PMs and voice bridge.

@Tolvo: I'm open to outfit suggestions. However, I'm likely to try dragonoid form at least part of the time (see my post in the general discussion about using Havel's Shield R2 to make dragonoids more viable). Perhaps a gesture or a certain action would work.

Regarding the date and name of the event, I like twinkly's suggestion "Forest of the Damned." Having the event on the 17th or the 24th will give us enought time to publicize it and prepare. Any preferences between the two?

I'm not entirely sure about the two dates, since that means we'll be competing with Fight Club for participation, and I like to participate in Fight Club. Though if it isn't a weekend getting people to join in will be just as hard, a tough call I say.

For sets I have ideas, Shadow, Wanderer, Bandit, Elite Knight, Leather+Pharis, Eastern, and Stone Knight. Thinks found in or relating to the forest?

Tolvo wrote:It is a pretty great weapon, I'm glad to see someone with more experience give some tips with it, I wasn't sure entirely about the stun locking but if that is the case this is indeed an incredibly powerful weapon. Do you typically one hand or two hand it? I find myself almost exclusively two handing it for maximum damage when dead angling and for some reason the animation seems faster to me.

Well 1H or 2H the Murakuma depends on the situation. For instance, this morning I got a quick invasion in and the camper had a GSoA, Crimson Robes (0 poise) and Black Knight Shield. I knew the GSoA is a weapon which takes a lot of stamina to swing and this host was not 2H (I always 2H the GSoA when I use it) so I knew I could handle one hit from the weapon. He tried to summon a phantom so I knew the clock was ticking til I had a 2v1 on my hands - so I 2H the Murakumo and went to town. I took him down to an inch of his life even when he was blocking (plus I had poision applied). So he rolled back, flasked and that was his fatal mistake - I WoG'd him (since he did not have any poise he was thrown to the ground) then I went to town again - he got in one swing but by that time I had him stun-locked and he died a beautiful but lonely death. His Sunbro buddy came in (as the host was dying) and I gave him a look like "you are too late to save him".

If your opponent is using a low-stun locked weapon (katana or any regular size weapon) then I recommend you 2H since you can easily overwhelm him because your poise should protect you from any possibility of stunlock. If your opponent has a greatsword class weapon or above I would recommend 1H until you figure out his fighting style. If you opponent is a spell user (with low poise) then I recommend 2H since you will be able finish them very quickly. When its all said and done 2H the weapon will usually allow you to finish the fight quickly - if your opponent has greatsword class weapon then 1H until you get that opening to finish them with 2H attacks.

I live and die by my Murakumo - won't trade it for the world. If possible in the future you definitely want to make a +15 normal version of this weapon. A dex build with the minimum STR requirements can do some serious damage with this weapon plus the buff potential makes it fantastic tool of destruction.

Check out this video of guy who has mastered the Murakumo fighting style in the forest - his style is very impressive - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlfoWIGEjt0

Most of the video I spent saying to myself, "Why the hell aren't you parrying!" Then I remembered they're farmers, so they probably don't know how to in PvP for the most part haha.

That guy is really great, and I can see the stagger lock in effect. As well I see him using Falchion for a lower poise stagger lock that can destroy, usually I switch to that or a Shotel against low poise targets since it will decimate and can easily kill a person with a go from one stamina bar.

I'm definitely going to mess around more with the Murakumo, I actually found some videos of someone else using it. His are more slow paced, but it shows him being very patient which I think though is less entertaining shows that with a level head you can easily kill the farmers.

Here they are, by the way the video's have some great music, gives that old western good, bad, and hunters vibe to it. Idea for the event, "The Lords, the Farmers, and the Hunters."
https://youtu.be/1J07WDo9Yzk
https://youtu.be/22PQ-qEoRXY
https://youtu.be/TR7EFVcpJYs

I was invaded in the burg by someone using the Murakumo. It was brutal. I tried to parry it with my target shield but even with 60+ poise got stunlocked on the first swing and from there it went downhill fast. Usually I can get at least a partial block, but the murakumo swings are weird and deceptive so I think I tried to parry too quickly.

I've also seen it used much better than in those videos, that guy seems to hang it up on walls a lot. Plus he annoys me by using obnoxious gestures, and turning on blue phantoms for no reason heh

befowler wrote:I was invaded in the burg by someone using the Murakumo. It was brutal. I tried to parry it with my target shield but even with 60+ poise got stunlocked on the first swing and from there it went downhill fast. Usually I can get at least a partial block, but the murakumo swings are weird and deceptive so I think I tried to parry too quickly.

I've also seen it used much better than in those videos, that guy seems to hang it up on walls a lot. Plus he annoys me by using obnoxious gestures, and turning on blue phantoms for no reason heh

Yeah I do believe the Murakumo is a bit difficult to parry - since the one time I was parried the mod toon tried like 3-4 times before he got me. In most situations if your opponent is willing to make 3-4 unsuccessful parry attempts (or partial blocks) from a Murakomo (or any greatsword class weapon) you can probably get a stun-lock on him before he could ever get a successful one. The Murakumo does swing kind of funny - not really vertically or horizontally but kinda of diagonally like so this is why I think its hard to parry.

This is truely my blade of choice!!

Given that morale can be tough to maintain against the farmers sometimes, I wanted to post this funny video for those who haven't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3d94pxVRQU&NR=1&feature=fvwp

I remember that video, I'm always glad to see anything bring some attention to Dark Souls, it's pretty funny as well. My only complaint would just be that I think it ends very abruptly.

Time for a little armor suggestion. The Eastern Set, I've been messing around with it lately. Using some of the millions of souls from Forest Hunting, I've decided to start buying Twinkling and upgrading various armors and weapons and testing them.

Now then, the Eastern set, this is possibly the greatest armor in the game if you ask me when it comes to deal with bleed enemies. It is light weight for the defense it gives, and against bleed weapons which are almost always slashing it has great defense. It's elemental is pretty good though if I remember correctly with magic it is somewhat lacking. A Crest shield can help mitigate that though. Now then, if you are fighting farmers that are using bleed weapons to kill single targets by constantly stacking up bleed using a bloodshield with this will give you a great window to be prepared. As well with the bleed dodging trick it gives you an extra window to prepare for the dodge, so if you are low on stamina you can let it regenerate a bit due to extra seconds you are afforded. With this I do love that it is an armor set actually related to the hunters, being worn by Shiva and it being found on the cliff. Now, I will say until this armor is max upgraded it is pretty lack luster. I'd say defenses wise it is close to the Elite Knight Set, while being lighter. It also has a total poise of 36, higher than the Elite Knight set, in certain circumstances.

I will also be doing armor recommendations like this along with weapons and tips, I just want to make sure I don't post too much too fast and burn out on this thread haha. Mind you the eastern set is best against slashing bleed weapons, that is what it is the perfect counter for. Katana's especially.

That is some good stuff Tolvo. The bloodshield definitely helps and you can 2hd with it on your back. I am really bad at timing the bleed negating roll, so I carry a lot of red moss and eat it ahead of time if I see katana guys coming.

I sometimes throw replenishment in there too. With ring of the sun princess and sanctus, you're up to like 14 hp/sec regen which can help particularly if the fight includes chases.

might also allow free use of the life hunt scythe?

I haven't killed Prisc myself so I cannot test that weapon with it, but I imagine the combo would be very devastating given how much you can take and dish out. I typically go with a grass shield when using the set but if I do see heavy bleed people I do switch out for a blood shield while moving. As well this is a set that the wolf ring works quite well with, since with it equipped you can survive a great sword strike without stagger, I think an ultra as well but I tend to not get hit by them haha. In fact if you are using a light enough weapon and offhand like a rapier and small shield, or uchi and dagger you can actually get to 25% or less weight which is very nice, depending on your endurance of course. I have 40, the full set is only 22.5 pounds after all. The lag can be a bit brutal sometimes with that bleed negate, but there is a trick I do with it. Though the hit deals no damage if you roll through it a bleed effect still applies, using this you can force your bar to fill by rolling into a bleed weapon's swing causing the effect to hit while you are currently rolling. The trick is to get hit at the start of your roll and have the effect hit while you are still flipping through the air. Mind you I've only tested this with the DWGR, so I'm not sure on the timing for the 25% and under roll.

I have done some testing with that as well and it can be handing with sanctus especially if you are having to do a lot of hitting and running. I keep a heal on hand just in case since I don't care for using up my humanity, but that is pretty risky business to cast even if surrounded by mobs of the forest. My only issue with the replenishment tactic is if you spawn near to the farmers you more than likely won't get the cast off without risk of being obliterated. As well a lot of them will try to kill you with a stagger lock so you'll never have a moment where while taking damage you can even regenerate health.

However like all things, all of these are case by case. There are moments where the Eastern set really isn't all that greater, full on casters with enchanted and magic/magic buffed weapons come to mind in that regard. Crystal Magic Weapon destroys this set.

EDIT: By the way though it is incredibly rare to see in PvP, the Eastern Set also has pretty good poison resist. Just thought I'd mention that.

sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:might also allow free use of the life hunt scythe?

I think you're generally right, although I have not tested it much. I'd figure it can at least prolong your use, although a lifehunt guru would know better. My experience on the receiving end is that folks seem to two hand the scythe with the bloodshield on their back, so swapping sanctus in there may just be trading initial resistance for a slightly better heal effect on the back end. Not sure that's worth it. But replenishment + ring should help.

Can you roll through your own bleed effect from your own lifehunt scythe?

I cannot get the life hunt since I'm keeping Prisc alive, so I cannot test this. But if anyone else would like to feel free and give back the results, that would make that weapon ridiculously overpowered haha, but I have no doubt it will work. I don't see why the origin of the bleed would change the dodge through. By the way I can actually link a video that shows off this trick, by a Dark Wraith against a modder/hacker on the Xbox no less haha.

Start at about 5:30 in and you'll see some examples.

https://youtu.be/XQg1raJ8I7Y

I am an avid Lifehunt user so maybe I can be of assistance here. Using just the bloodshield, your opponent will almost always bleed before you do, assuming they aren't hitting you with a bleed weapon as well. The eastern set will give a good buffer but the best combo is the shield and the bloodbite ring. I used to use this with a mobility setup (all gold hemmed set) and my bleed resistance was over 700 I believe. I also used this combo with a heavy armor setup (bloodbite and havel's ring), two handed the scythe and ripped apart a LOT of bosses. If you can stagger your opponent with the R1 attack (one or two handed) you can get at least four or more hits in without repercussion (more with good stamina). Unless you're aggressive, bleed in PvP is more of a psychological tool to get your opponent to play into your real attacks. I like bleed because it makes most opponents come in more cautiously or roll a lot which plays into the R2 attack of the scythe. Insider tip for my tree bros, if you see a Dragon, wait to get that first hit in but when you do ALWAYS use the R1 attack as they are always staggered and susceptible for more R1 fun. I have an extra Priscilla's soul that I could turn into a scythe if any committed player wants in on this strategy. I'm not sure about the bleed dodge and if this is an effective counter but I've yet to see too many farmers good enough to worry about the strategy. And even if they are good enough to do this you are still making them modify their attack to fit yours which is still in your favor. I have noticed the R2 sweep and it's ridiculous hitbox have some great forest applications.

Some tips I have posted elsewhere but work well here include:
1. Little discussed fact, you can change the elevation of your swing which is more dramatic with this weapon due to the long sweep. I.e. If you look down, you will scrape the ground, look up and your apex can be over your head. So....hide under the Pharis wannabe cliff and swing up unexpectedly or down from higher ground. I was in a 2 on 2 and the host lost his phantom. The other tree bro boxed him into the area near the steps (artorias gate area) and I went up the steps and swung down at the guy from behind.

2. The blade can wrap around obstacles better than traditional farming weapons. I was being chased by a Havel and a Dragon with the Havel being aggressive. I circled trees which prevented his lightning zwei from hitting me. The dragon had to flush me out as they realized almost too late that the same tree was not blocking my Lifehunt.

3. Sometimes you'll meet warriors who are prepared for bleed or assume you can't afford to be aggressive due to self bleed and moderate stamina use for this weapon and approach you quite persistently. If you don't have a suitable backup plan (I used to use Priscilla's dagger but am not great with riposte or backstab) have a suitable backup technique to get them to make a mistake. I like a heavy shield which makes many fighters backstab fish. I love the mirror game which usually results in rolling. R2 about halfway through the roll for a nice chunk of damage. The hitbox is crazy wide on this weapon and I have hit people from ALL angles following a roll, including behind me.

4. The range for scythes is ridiculous (great scythe is better than lifehunt) and have made my fair share of greatsword and black knight great ax users learn to keep some distance. After a couple of side rolls resulting in easy hits I typically start seeing my opponents roll away to avoid playing into my fight.

Some very good info Skarecrow, if you have more ideas like that with weapons and armors go on and post them and help the hunters out.

A little advice though, I would not suggest the golden hemmed set due to fast acting stagger lock weapons. The Falchion comes to mind, if a person connects with that against you they will outright kill you since you have no poise, just thought I'd give the heads up on that. But you've probably already experienced that before, I tend to like to keep enough poise to avoid small weapon threats.

Lol....Definitely not a PvP recommended set these days. That was more PvE so I could use different rings (think greedy) as the Great Shield of Artorias is more than adequate for most beings. For PvP I was using a combo of that and Havel's which gave good results but ended up with Black Iron Chest and Gauntlets upgraded, Wanderer's hood and Channeler's waistcloth. Still need Havel's to fast roll but allows me greater weapon/shield flexibility. With that setup I very rarely get staggered. I tried light armor for awhile as my PvE technique is usually bait the attack then move just out of range but even a small amount of lag means broken guard, even with a heavy shield.

I actually have a tip to aggravate/beat farmers that I used a couple times in the Kiln.
Step1: Drop a white sign near the steps/entrance

Step 2: Wait to be summoned by a farmer

Step 3: Pretend you are there to help

Step 4: Don't

This takes a summon slot away form the host and, in my opinion, is very funny when they realize you are leaving them to die. Bonus points for bowing to the invader.

This led to another idea that we can do for an organized night(s) of forest hunting. Anytime you get a hate message you reply with a stock message, like a slogan for the forest hunters. For example...."Forest Hunters just made you leaf." Or....something good

I like to go with full sets, Paladin, Eastern, Elite Knight, Knight, Warrior, Shadow, Favour, Painting Guardian, and chain mail. Then again I'm a goofy person, so I would not recommend it because doing so will easily get you killed.

I tend to do that when I invade and end up as a phantom through that bug/glitch. I just wait and watch, or I join in the fight in a way hosts probably don't even know is possible. Did you know summons can parry the host, they just can't riposte? So I have parried the host as a hunter was about to strike leading to a riposte, or saved a hunter from a devastating attack by parrying the host away. It's pretty funny to do and boy do you get hate mail. Hate mail that can be worn as a badge haha.

For the possible Gravelording event I've been farming Eyes of Death to give out to gravelords when I invade their worlds, to keep it going. Boy is this tedious to do though.

strangejoy wrote:@Brokewilly: Great ideas regarding the PMs and voice bridge.

@Tolvo: I'm open to outfit suggestions. However, I'm likely to try dragonoid form at least part of the time (see my post in the general discussion about using Havel's Shield R2 to make dragonoids more viable). Perhaps a gesture or a certain action would work.

Regarding the date and name of the event, I like twinkly's suggestion "Forest of the Damned." Having the event on the 17th or the 24th will give us enought time to publicize it and prepare. Any preferences between the two?

Well either Saturday, March 17th or 24th would be good to me. I can definitely have the voice conference bridge and chat functionality up by either of those dates. Also, I am going through the Book of the Guilty (on XBOX) so I can PM all hunters and GLs I find to let them know an mass invasion like this is going to occur in the near future. Will also provide them a link to this thread - so they can get some background info and ask any questions they may have. From a new hunter perspective this would be the perfect opportunity to level-up in the covanent and I know some of the newer hunters still want to get a RoF so their chances to get one should be higher than any other time.

I was finally able to get my hands on one of those Channeler's Tridents so I am ready to do some mass buffing for my fellow hunters during the event. Also, it appears the Trident does relatively good phy/mag damage with my stats so it may serve as pretty good secondary weapon for me - just need to test it out in battle.

I'm ready and willing to do my part to get this thing going.

skarekrow13 wrote:I actually have a tip to aggravate/beat farmers that I used a couple times in the Kiln.
Step1: Drop a white sign near the steps/entrance

Step 2: Wait to be summoned by a farmer

Step 3: Pretend you are there to help

Step 4: Don't

This takes a summon slot away form the host and, in my opinion, is very funny when they realize you are leaving them to die. Bonus points for bowing to the invader.

This led to another idea that we can do for an organized night(s) of forest hunting. Anytime you get a hate message you reply with a stock message, like a slogan for the forest hunters. For example...."Forest Hunters just made you leaf." Or....something good

lol! I've thought about doing that trojan horse summoning tactic, but the catchphrases take it to a whole new level.

"You're barking up the wrong tree."

"Cat got your tongue?"

"Make like a tree and get outta here."