"Advanced" tier weapons.

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    Animaaal
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Animaaal on Wed May 08, 2013 12:11 am

    Also, I upvoted post 88 and stand by it.

    There have been way worse things said in this forum.

    And, I HAVE a "retared" kid and was ZERO offended.

    Spears are the best weapon<---it's true...wtf?!?!?! Look Skyward

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    Rynn
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Rynn on Wed May 08, 2013 12:48 am

    Jansports wrote:Overpowered:

    Adjective


    1. Smtn. that obtained more power than needed

    2. Smtn. possessing too much power

    First non World of Warcraft specific definition.

    I don't think spears, along with everything else as viable as they are in pvp, have "too much power" they have an appropriate amount of power, as you admit there are different but equally powerful options
    Spears and Katana's both rest above all other weapons on a spectrum of power. We can only compare weapons to each other, and if spears and katana's are better than all other weapons, than they are possessing too much power: which is better known as advantaged, which is better known as overpowered.


    Thankyou for helping me make my point.

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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Animaaal on Wed May 08, 2013 12:55 am

    Rynn wrote:...Spears and Katana's both rest above all other weapons on a spectrum of power...

    They do not.

    There is no tier 2.

    Tier 2 would be comprised of weapons from different weapon categories, thereby making spears stand as a dominate weapon selection.

    Katanas would, if the bleed couldn't be canceled, but even then I'm not sure. The Leo is too powerful.

    Proof of this would be the patch before last I believe. Stamina consumtion was increased when blocking and attacking. Did it affect anything? Not really.

    A spear does everything required to attack effectively in Dark Souls, and is looonger.
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Tolvo on Wed May 08, 2013 12:57 am

    Hey Animaal.

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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Animaaal on Wed May 08, 2013 12:59 am

    Hey, ya I'm loggin off. Good advice Tolvo, thanks bud. Sorry again.

    I :heart: spears.
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Tolvo on Wed May 08, 2013 1:02 am

    Aw man.

    You were supposed to say "what?"

    Then I'd go, "Chicken Butt."

    And hopefully it would have dissolved all tension.
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Emergence on Wed May 08, 2013 1:20 am

    *Reads OP*
    *Reads 8 pages of discussion*
    *Wonders why the hell no one answers the op's question and instead choose to argue spears*


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    Tolvo
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Tolvo on Wed May 08, 2013 1:24 am

    I want to with the Murakumo, but frankly my memory is very fuzzy and I'm just not as sharp of a tool with PvP as I used to be. Not to mention someone might consider the Murakumo a very easy to use weapon, which I can see.
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed May 08, 2013 1:25 am

    Emergence's reading glasses=OP; pls nerf.

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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Jansports on Wed May 08, 2013 2:25 am

    Emergence wrote:*Reads OP*
    *Reads 8 pages of discussion*
    *Wonders why the hell no one answers the op's question and instead choose to argue spears*

    Couldn't find my post about how every weapon is advanced?

    And What about the Falchion, Zwei, Great Scythe, BSS, large club, composite bow, claymore, Rapier/Estoc, Broadsword, MLGS, Halberd, ect. ect. That are commonly used? Most if not all of these will fare better than a spear (THE spear, such as the lightning one found in sens) I mean spend an afternoon hosting the burg. From personal experience I can almost garuantee you'll see more Falchions buffed than you'll see SKSes. Real people who really want to win are choosing many other things than spears and kats. In my experience when something is overpowered people migrate to it until everything is just a blur of MagSentStorm (MvC2) Metaknight(brawl) or Death Knights (season 5) But I do not see this with weapon selection in dark souls, sure I see some weapons more than others, but I still see a pretty wide selection over the course of a pvp session.

    I still also contest my mental faculties, I'm not mentally disabled.

    @Animaaal While I would never want to diminish your son's personal validity in not taking offense, but I hold my right to be offended
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by kazumoshi on Wed May 08, 2013 2:41 am

    So while all of you dance around the argument of who is right and who is wrong, will one of you please just post whether spears are an accessible weapon or an advanced weapon?


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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed May 08, 2013 2:42 am

    Accessible.

    end thread/

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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by hey its andres on Wed May 08, 2013 2:50 am

    I wouldn't consider them as accessible in pvp. This would be because, quite simply, they drain too much stamina for people who do not know how to use them *turtle* correctly. Most of us know how to handle turtles, and most of the turtles I run into are new players who think that hiding behind a shield is the greatest thing ever. Now the people who really know how to use spears can use 'em to get really nasty hits on people, the kind where you are 5 ft away. I wouldn't consider them "accessible," and if anything they are falsely so.


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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Wed May 08, 2013 2:58 am

    Honestly now, about accessibility.

    Think about it this way.

    Those of you who put a lot of time into dark souls know that every weapon just takes practice. The hard part about some of the "advanced" weapons is that they are either uncommon, or not "desirable". Therefore you will not have as much practice with them making them harder to use for yourself. As far as general players go most people don't go into an rpg thinking "i want to be a spear kind of guy" they go in thinking "big sword ****yeah!" or "powerful mage *air guitar heavy metal solo*". So weapons like the spear, the whip and knives often go untouched making them again, less accessible.

    If you don't believe me try it yourself. Make a whip build, or a painting guardian sword build or something. Beat the game with it once and do some pvp. Pretty soon you'll kick *** with it.



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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by hey its andres on Wed May 08, 2013 3:21 am

    Exactly, spears are not "good" enough for most players needs. I used the lightning spear I found in Sen's on my first play through (When lightning was OP silly ) because it did a lot of damage and was easy to use. Now though with the reduction of damage, the lightning spear sucks (at least for the sake of this argument).

    I take accessible to mean easy to use with little practice, and honestly most of the weapons that are accessible take a lot of skill to use against experienced players because they've likely fought hundreds of people with the same weapon and techniques. Honestly guys, how often does a rampaging zweihander stun lock you? But, this is another debate entirely.


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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Wed May 08, 2013 3:25 am

    Most weapons don't take much practice to use though.

    I mean think about it, given that the weapon is upgraded appropriately within 10-20 min of using it the first time you'll be killing most enemies without much more trouble than you would usually have.


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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by ICEFANG on Wed May 08, 2013 3:26 am

    Why does everyone say things about the Lucerne but the Halberd is common place? I consider the Lucerne to be almost the exact same. The timing for that Scythe slash is like .05 seconds faster (I tested once, but I can't remember, its really about the same) than the Halberd's attack. They have very little different.


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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Jansports on Wed May 08, 2013 3:28 am

    Halberd + Leo

    Scythe is a good weapon, but I just don't see it as often as quite a few other things, and I've always wondered why.
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Wed May 08, 2013 3:31 am

    Lucerne deals thrusting damage.

    Isn't Lucerne's 2H R1 way slower than Halberds? Also the animation is a chop instead of a thrust. Off the top of my head those are the two things I'd say make it not as good as Halberd, but I've not used either extensively.


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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Rynn on Wed May 08, 2013 3:59 am

    In PvP, advanced weapons are as follows, in my opinion.

    Scythe Class Weapons:
    While overused, it takes far more skill than most weapon classes to use well.
    Small Hammers and Small axes:
    Less is more with these weapons. Extremely unvaried in attacks animations, which makes them, while easy to learn, definitely the hardest to master.
    Daggers:
    Except for backstabbing, I consider a dagger to be the weakest weapons in the game, and anyone that even does a good chunk of my HP with one wins a lot of my respect.

    The Lucerne and the whip also have unique feelings to them, and are difficult to learn.
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Wed May 08, 2013 4:16 am

    the lucies advantage over the halberd is that ALL its moves are leo compatible where as the halberd only has one leo compatible attack, the regular r1, where as the lucerne's r2's running r1's and rolling r1's all are leo compatible, also the r2 move set of the lucerne is identical to the halberd,
    however because of howmuch the whiff animation effects the lucernes swings i'd qualify it as an advanced tier weapon because its a beast in the right hands but requires more practice than most leo weapons.


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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by ICEFANG on Wed May 08, 2013 4:44 am

    Saturday-Saint wrote:Lucerne deals thrusting damage.

    Isn't Lucerne's 2H R1 way slower than Halberds? Also the animation is a chop instead of a thrust. Off the top of my head those are the two things I'd say make it not as good as Halberd, but I've not used either extensively.

    No this is why I am confused. Perhaps I remember incorrectly, but in the interest of finding a Halberd class weapon I most liked, I tested the attack speed. All of the halberds that swing (like the Lucerne, Scythe, and G Halberd), all attack at the same speed, and even very very (insignificantly) faster than the normal Halberd.

    I also like the Halberd, but I think the Lucerne is almost 100% better. Little lighter, almost same damage, fully Leo. So I am surprised when people say that the Halberd is a good weapon, but the Lucerne is an advanced weapon.


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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Tolvo on Wed May 08, 2013 4:47 am

    I just tested it, roughly all the same with the Lucerne being the slowest to hit, however they have similar overall animation speeds. The halberd deals damage the fastest, but has a decent recovery time after. The two hand of the Lucerne was fairly slow.
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Jansports on Wed May 08, 2013 7:33 am

    Does the Lucerne or Scythe stunlock like the halberd? To me, excluding whiffs, I've always felt the halberd to be faster with it's R1s compared to the scythe
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    Re: "Advanced" tier weapons.

    Post by Dibsville on Wed May 08, 2013 7:45 am

    Scythe stunlocks the same as Halberd and Lucern.


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