Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:53 pm

    I still like how one reviewer gave the newest Luigi's mansion game a bad score because he said the game was just way too difficult.

    The other reviewers talked about how they thought the game was good but a bit too easy. Seemingly it's a very easy but entertaining game.

    It kind of makes the guy seem like he is just terrible at Luigi's Mansion.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:57 pm

    What if the other reviewers neglected the fact luigi's mansion is made for 3 YEAR OLDS?!

    Flip side to everything winking

    I'm still waiting for the bad reviews of skyrim to come out on the basis of game breaking glitches and outdated gameplay.... Any moment now..


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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:59 pm

    "Alright, time to write my negative review of skyrim...Wait a second. I have an email from Bethesda? Well I've got to see what's inside. Holy **** it's full of child porn what the hell? It's downloading onto my computer and deleting the email what's going on! A knock at the door, oh god its a *** swat team!"
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:17 pm

    Tolvo wrote:"Alright, time to write my negative review of skyrim...Wait a second. I have an email from Bethesda? Well I've got to see what's inside. Holy **** it's full of child porn what the hell? It's downloading onto my computer and deleting the email what's going on! A knock at the door, oh god its a *** swat team!"

    So THATS where the budget goes!


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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by steveswede on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:22 pm

    Tolvo wrote:By the way a small thing in relation to gaming and the travesty that is sexist representations of female leads. One series that was always great about that was Metroid. The fact that Samus was a woman didn't even factor into the equation, a good deal of people didn't even know it. Her gender didn't matter at all. Samus was a bounty hunter and warrior. She wasn't a Woman Bounty Hunter or Woman Warrior. She just was what her job was.

    In recent years she has been totally ruined by developers. I love Nintendo but this is a case where they really need to pay attention to what they are doing. In one of her most recent incarnations, Metroid Other M, she is portrayed as a scared woman that struggles with asserting herself and facing the dangers that men bravely go against. She is submissive to every male character and constantly brings up the idea of motherhood and how she feels empty inside unless she is nurturing children. Note, this in canon is really late in the story. This is after something like five death defying adventures and developing her as a strong person who happens to be a woman. I mean really, I don't understand how female activist groups can get pissed about God of War when this **** exists. Previously Samus almost always wore her armor except perhaps at the end if you beat the game 100%. These days, she seems to be stripping down to her skimpy zero suit whenever. Not to mention she was somewhat masculine in appearance originally but they dolled her up more making her slender and large breasted.

    I just brought this up because I got reminded of Samus and what happened to her and god damn does it always piss me off what happened to that character.

    She wasn't a female role model. She was a role model that happened to be a woman.

    I repeat sexism is the claim or belief that one gender is superior to another. This isn't sexist you just don't like the way the character was developed. In fact I would dare say that if you hate this type of character developing then you may hate real women that are like this.

    All it comes down to is taste. I don't like generic one dimensional meat heads that are the protagonists of games. Does it mean that there's sexist representation of men there? No it doesn't it just taste.

    Honestly some people go out their way to be offended by stuff that isn't even there. If you really want to pick on something then look for stuff that actually pushes ethics, like Super Strip Fighter IV. That game there are actual finishers where you can sexual assault your opponent both male and female.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:25 pm

    Actually steve if you look at what he says- her being submissive to men, feeling empty inside without nurturing children.. at the very least it's stereotyping...

    Though I feel we should be offended by it for wholly undermining her character, IF it is actually that bad (havent played it myself)


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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:30 pm

    I should also mention in the game there is a point where man basically tells you, "It's too dangerous for you the only woman to do this. So I'll be a hero while you go to the easier thing."

    This game portrays all female characters as weak in comparison to male characters, the females also often need to be saved by males.

    Metroid was always about doing everything yourself and exploring a large world/complex, going against various types of danger and surviving through your own skill.

    I'd actually say whoever made the game seems to hate women, or at least has a very low opinion of them if he thinks they are incapable of being strong figures. Samus was originally a very strong character.

    It completely underminds pretty much everything about her. There is a good reason a lot of fans of the series don't consider it canon since you're essentially playing as a totally different character in this game.

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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by steveswede on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:36 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:Actually steve if you look at what he says- her being submissive to men, feeling empty inside without nurturing children.. at the very least it's stereotyping...

    None of those are sexist and so what if it's stereotyping, so is creating an old man with a walking stick, is that supposed to be ageist?

    Serious_Much wrote:Though I feel we should be offended by it for wholly undermining her character, IF it is actually that bad (havent played it myself)

    She has not been undermined, it's a path her design when in, some people like it, others don't. Everyone will have at least several characters from TV, films, games where the creative decision was to change someone and you hate it. It's taste nothing more.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:40 pm

    You understand Sexism is merely the act of treating someone differently based on their sex?

    Which they do constantly in the game?

    Said sexism is often treated as a good thing in game.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:42 pm

    I don't know what your definition undermining is, but mine certainly includes taking a character with a significant amount of history, then making a total U- turn that completely contradicts her personality that has been laid down over generations of games..

    I think I could actually provide that in the dictionary as an example it fits so well.


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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:44 pm

    It basically means to ruin the basics of the character, or their strongest characteristics.

    Samus' strongest characteristic was essentially that she was a powerful bounty hunter that is independent.

    In Other M she is a scared woman who feels sad that she isn't a mother and constantly has to listen to the men around her and do exactly what they say. She even mentions how she likes to be bossed around by Adam and how it makes her feel good to just be ordered around.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by steveswede on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:02 pm

    Tolvo wrote:I should also mention in the game there is a point where man basically tells you, "It's too dangerous for you the only woman to do this. So I'll be a hero while you go to the easier thing."

    Need more context. Only woman? What is she like the last woman? Does he do it because he rather have his life be sacrificed? Is he saying his value is less than her? Show video please.

    Tolvo wrote:This game portrays all female characters as weak in comparison to male characters, the females also often need to be saved by males.

    Show me every single female in game compared to the weakest man. Also is the ratio of male greater that female? if so how many? It wouldn't make sense for Samus to save everyone now.

    Tolvo wrote:Metroid was always about doing everything yourself and exploring a large world/complex, going against various types of danger and surviving through your own skill

    Resident Evil was about survival horror but ended up being a 3rd person shooter. Stuff doesn't always stay consistent

    Tolvo wrote:I'd actually say whoever made the game seems to hate women, or at least has a very low opinion of them if he thinks they are incapable of being strong figures. Samus was originally a very strong character.


    Anyone that would hate women who most likely wouldn't bother making them look nice, give them a personality, create a world around them. In fact I would expect them to not feature any women and to even turn the likes of Samus into a man. Making a character less strong doesn't mean that the director hate's the character. Usually characters are done like this to make them more human, flawed, so people can relate to them. A bit like the X-Men instead of the 1930 super heroes where everyone of them is the perfect roll model. Also you mention Samus being scared all the time, well does she do mission that's she's scared to do? If so then that's the bravest thing someone can do, unlike having no fear because having no fear isn't brave. How many real soldiers can relate to being scared in war? That to me is very human, something most people can relate to and is strong character development.

    Tolvo wrote:It completely underminds pretty much everything about her. There is a good reason a lot of fans of the series don't consider it canon since you're essentially playing as a totally different character in this game.

    It comes down to taste and I totally get why people get upset over it. People have it in there mind who Samus is and when it's not to their taste can't relate to her.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by steveswede on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:12 pm

    Tolvo wrote:You understand Sexism is merely the act of treating someone differently based on their sex?

    Which they do constantly in the game?

    Said sexism is often treated as a good thing in game.

    Sexism is the claim or belief that one gender is superior to another. Everyone can be treated differently, I would treat my kids differently from other kids, I treat family members differently from strangers is this somehow discrimination? You're blurring the lines here there's a big difference from that to thinking or claiming your sex is better than the other.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:14 pm

    http://youtu.be/lh897zov1Aw

    Adam is willing to go himself alone to save Samus so that she doesn't have to do the tougher mission. He was willing to sacrifice every single male squad member of his up to that point, in fact at that point there are three characters left alive. A female Doctor, another Female Doctor, Samus, and Adam.

    Samus went on the mission willingly for cash, she's been through far more dire of situations and the thing she ended up terrified of Ridley, she has fought and killed around three-five times up to that point depending on whether certain games are canon. Each time she fought and dispatched him without even gasping since she always expects him to come back since the space pirates always bring him back. He's in nearly every Metroid game in some fashion.

    Metroid Other M is an action game with FPS, the original Metroid was a sidescroller shooter, Metroid Prime and its series were FPS platformers. I'm not complaining about any of those changes between the series. Switching between FPS, Sidescroller, and action, those are all fine things that are generally done well. Other M did not get the first person mode down as well as in Metroid Prime and its Sequels though.

    Samus herself is saved by Adam, Anthony, a random General, and also an entire squad of men.

    The only assertive female character turns out to be a robot. She is also the main villain in the end and has been using her guise as a helpless woman to trick everyone.

    The third female is a scientist that was too weak to challenge the male scientists when they did questionable things.

    Samus never actually saves a single person in the whole game. In fact she nearly gets anthony killed and is a burden to him at times. At one point she could have possibly saved Anthony, but its actually shown the creature attacking him was no threat as it just kills itself for no reason.

    The weakest man in the game would have to be Lyle the Space Marine, he's afraid of bugs. As a part of a squad he saves Samus.

    Its also very sexist towards men in that it seems in game that every man has to either be an idiot, or some sort of white knight rescuing women.

    It also seems towards the end to make the more important character be Adam while you just do small side things as he accomplishes the big objectives. It also undermines his character. The AI in Metroid Fusion that has his intelligence uploaded is very cold towards Samus and rude to her like Adam is in other M. Except the AI was like that because it wasn't acting like Adam, when it does it is helpful, intelligent, and even warm towards her in a strictly friendly manner.

    Sexism is treating someone differently based on their gender.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sexism
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexism
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:19 pm

    Tolvo wrote:You understand Sexism is merely the act of treating someone differently based on their sex?
    Hetero- or homosexuality is sexism because you are refusing to have a romantic relationship with somebody based on their sex.

    Tolvo wrote:Adam is willing to go himself alone to save Samus so that she doesn't have to do the tougher mission. He was willing to sacrifice every single male squad member of his up to that point, in fact at that point there are three characters left alive. A female Doctor(1), another Female Doctor(2), Samus(3), and Adam(4).

    Tolvo wrote:in fact at that point there are three characters left alive.


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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:23 pm

    One of the female doctors is a robot and not technically living.

    In the loosest sense yes that is technically sexist.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by steveswede on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:27 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:I don't know what your definition undermining is, but mine certainly includes taking a character with a significant amount of history, then making a total U- turn that completely contradicts her personality that has been laid down over generations of games..

    I think I could actually provide that in the dictionary as an example it fits so well.

    Have you read the wiki article on the development of Samus

    Before Other M's
    development, Sakamoto did not think too much about "what kind of person
    Samus Aran was and how she thinks and her personality", particularly
    because the games tried to depict Samus as a mysterious person. Sakamoto and Team Ninja put much focus on backstory in the game to present Samus as an "appealing human character" something important for future installments, as players would get further interest in Samus' adventures. Hayashi said that one of the development team's goals was to have the
    player "connect with Samus as the story and action develops". Sakamoto also said the game would "bring everyone up to the same level
    of understanding in the Metroid universe", and would not only introduce
    the series to new players but also create new challenges for fans. The chronological setting between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion
    was chosen because Sakamoto considered the period "so critical that
    without addressing it, we wouldn't be able to make new games that show
    Samus' adventures that take place after the events of Metroid Fusion"

    Like I said she wasn't undermined, her character wasn't even really developed to begin with.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:30 pm

    Tolvo wrote:One of the female doctors is a robot and not technically living.

    In the loosest sense yes that is technically sexist.
    It bothers me so much that you responded to my points in reverse order. It bothers me almost as much as how this forum inserts random linebreaks into your posts or how the text-entry box uses black text on a dark grey background.

    Seriously who made this skin, it's *** inhumane.


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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:31 pm

    "Remember how in every other game you just faced danger and dealt with it? Well get ready to start crying when seeing old enemies!"

    If it was a reboot I wouldn't mind the undermining qualities. Some things are still sexist in portrayal, but crying to Ridley could make sense if it is the first time fighting him. He killed your parents, but that was at least over three fights ago.

    Now it seems that people think I just see sexism in everything, I don't.

    That whole God of War scandal, that wasn't sexist. It was an achievement about how a male character betrayed his mother to help you.

    Tomb Raider, the supposed **** aspect didn't bother me during development. It was how the developers talked about it and how they made it seem like the character needs to be saved because she is a woman. I was against how the developers talked about it, not the idea of a woman being raped in a game.

    I just feel like I should mention this because lately people seem to be taking that attitude towards me when it couldn't be further from the truth.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Saturday-Saint on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:38 pm

    Tolvo wrote:I was against how the developers talked about it, not the idea of a woman being raped

    I'm sorry, but I'm having fun.


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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:40 pm

    I know you are.

    But I'm fine with such dark events in a game as long as they handle them right. I don't think anytime soon we'll get a Triple A game with a woman **** a man and that being shown as an awful thing because of how the cultures of the world are. Still, maybe some day a man being raped will be treated as seriously in a game as it should be.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by steveswede on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:14 am


    I will have to check out the whole game at some point to really get the full idea of the character development but what I've seen in that video isn't sexism in any way. In fact there was tones of respect for each other, both of them feeling responsible for each other.

    So Samus can't freeze the Metroids to destroy them or something so Adam comes in to do something about it by self destructing the ship with him inside it. He does this because he feels responsible due to him being credited as the creator of the Metroid military program. He then tells her to do the next mission to stop Ridley because unlike her, he can't and isn't a galactic survivor and is human. Samus at that point in time is weakened so he wants her to gain her strength back. She tells him that she can deal with the Metroids because she believes that she can freeze them but he isn't prepared to take that risk by letting the only person he knows that can stop Ridley to perish. She is devastated because they really cared for each other, she had massive respect for him as did he for her and was like a father figure to her.

    Honestly how on earth is this sexist or even poor representation of a woman. The character development is great it is beyond me where the issue is.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by Tolvo on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:22 am

    They don't know that the metroids can't be frozen. They also don't know what Ridley is even up to or whether he's even a concern to the mission at this point. He was also willing to sacrifice literally everyone but Samus, though he has just as long of a relationship with some of them, in fact considering she hasn't been around for a while he would be closer to the others.

    At this point he also thinks Anthony is dead, meaning his death could just as easily cause Samus and the other female(s) to become scapegoats since there were no military personnel left to explain what happened. Members of the team were killed using similar tech to what is found in her arm cannon making her a suspect in the murders of military personnel.

    It just doesn't add up. Now I will say it's entirely possible that him saving her because she's a woman might not have been intended by the developer in this instance. However due to the various plot holes, it ends up being one of the few reasons Adam would actually make this choice since the in game explanations don't make sense.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by steveswede on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:30 am

    Unfortunately this can be a problem with Japanese games, sometimes translation can really mess up the context of a game.

    Like I said I could do with playing the whole game to get the whole context but from what I've seen, the character development is amazing with a lot of respect for each other.
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    Re: Is "gamer girl" a derogatory term?

    Post by bunnywink on Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:54 am

    I only read up to page four of this thread, but knowing off-topic's tendency to go... well, off-topic, I think that's enough.



    Personally, I don't find it offensive.

    It doesn't matter anyway because I could still probably whoop your *** in most games. :roll:


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