Modding VS Being a poor sport

WyrmHero wrote:

I disagree here. I find DB healing is more a part of the game than gankers, spammers, and BS fisherman. I mean, they are going out of their way to employ cheap tactics to win...so why can't I employ cheap tactics to survive?

It isn't, you can't get DBs in anyway other than glitching/hacking/trading from previous glitcher. Cheap is subjective, the most experienced you get at the game the less cheap things become. However glitching will always be cheap because it isn't part of the game.

1 Run through the game will net you a total of...7 or 8 DB's. Using anymore than that can be called as being "shady"

But you have to figure

3 from starting gift
3 from sen's
1 from Rhea
and I think snuggly gives you 1 or 2 for a ring...

densetsushun wrote:
What you end up doing is your business, so I won't judge you for what you did. Whether or not it's to be frowned upon to make a character that's real and viable through modding is not something I'll go in on, but if you're modding your HP without changing your vit to be the equivalent to it, you're unfairly displacing the balance in your favor, not to mention you're warping the game past its limits. In my opinion and from my perspective, you should not be playing competitively with that toon. If it's a realistically feasible toon but you used the mod to cut the time down from 20+ hours to 1, that's something different.

That is what I'm going to be doing from now on. I mean sure, crushing enemies with Full havels and insane stats is fun...but when it comes to PvP...it gets unfair for everyone involved. I end up cheating the opponent of any chance of winning, and I end up having a boring fight

Rynn wrote:
I'd be facinated to have 10 copies of DMB for a Darkmoon knightess build for PvP. Also I've somewhat wished to have escape death for forest hosting before.

One thing I've considered using a modding device for is to give myself a maximum HP of 6. (So that i can equip a symbol of avarice to lower HP to 1.)

Why a low HP? Any specific reason?

I understand where you're coming from, but in my opinion its just wrong, most don't use this and bust their *** to get +15 weapons and get their sl high enough to get their stats. Also by changing stats to not match your sl you're robbing people of a souls return, if I'd beaten someone with 2000hp and got a souls return that didn't match I'd be uber pissed. At least just give yourself a bucket load of souls or 99 great hero souls to make vit/so match the HP. Frankly I don't blame the guy but how did he know you modded?

I also think I'd use a modding device to give myself like... 100 attunement slots for a real chaos witch of izalith build.

A max HP of 6 because I wanted to do a low life challenge run.

AnCapaillMor wrote:I understand where you're coming from, but in my opinion its just wrong, most don't use this and bust their *** to get +15 weapons and get their sl high enough to get their stats. Also by changing stats to not match your sl you're robbing people of a souls return, if I'd beaten someone with 2000hp and got a souls return that didn't match I'd be uber pissed. At least just give yourself a bucket load of souls or 99 great hero souls to make vit/so match the HP. Frankly I don't blame the guy but how did he know you modded?

He BSed me several times with Obsidian Greatsword and added up the damage before I healed, it must've been at around 2k which is why he said I was cheating. I don't really know, but he was a pissy little bugger.

Rynn wrote:I'd be facinated to have 10 copies of DMB for a Darkmoon knightess build for PvP. Also I've somewhat wished to have escape death for forest hosting before.

One thing I've considered using a modding device for is to give myself a maximum HP of 6. (So that i can equip a symbol of avarice to lower HP to 1.)

I don't think you can even mod to 100 slots O_o at least I hope to god not.

A realistic run through would be fun but damn I don't think it would be possible...there are a few parts where you need to drop and if you do it wrong (or in the Nito / Stray Demon fight) you die...

Simple solution available for that actually. I don't drop down at one HP.
This is the other reason for having more then 1 HP.

Rynn wrote:Simple solution available for that actually. I don't drop down at one HP.
This is the other reason for having more then 1 HP.

Touche, Rynn.

Also, I'll add your Gamertag tonight when I get home. I've love to see some of your builds first hand

@NPC lol C'mon, the items aren't intended for PvP because you can't farm them. Anyone who sees you DB healing will auto think you're a glitcher. You can use them and naively think but I got 7 in this playthrough it's all fair!!! But the other guy won't think so.

I don't get you. You can't just half-*** being honorable and a troll. If you're going to mod, you might as well go all the way and have your fun.

LunarFog wrote:I don't get you. You can't just half-*** being honorable and a troll. If you're going to mod, you might as well go all the way and have your fun.

I understand where you are coming from, but we will have to agree to disagree~

Also, my profile on XBL:

"I regenerate health quickly, but am suceptible to fire."

That is the troll description from Skyrim...I thrive on being a Troll in game.

I.E. Running around turning into a pot via Chameleon and dropping Dungpies to confuse the invader or host....fun tiemz.

@WyrmHero

...Touche... You have me beaten...I never thought of it that way...Well now, I think you just talked me out of using DB's in pvp. (Unless I'm sunbro-ing...boss fights can get tricky and I don't like having to rely on host to heal me.)

As for your HP... yeah, 2000 still isn't a lot. Earlier today I -almost- killed this hacker that had 4700 HP on 3 different invasions.

Personally, I think it takes a lot of guts to get on here and ask these questions.

I have zero doubt you were honestly trying to either find support or criticism.

I dont believe you were trying to justify something you knew was wrong (like almost EVERYONE on the internet lol).

I think you were seeking advice and guidance.

"The wisest men ask the most questions"-someone smart

kudos to bravery

PS-Imo you were wrong.

PSS-So you killed or didn't kill someone in Dark Souls.

See, it's the discussion of the impossible that irks me. Modifying and proliferation of gear and stats that one cannot obtain under any normal circumstances, and that is impossible without the modding has zero place in the game and is really no different thatn bb glitching to grief at low lvls with op gear. The moment that makes its way into online interaction, it cheapens the game and vision and creates distension and imbalance. The same way the Burg became basically unplayable online for newbies due to the bb glitch.

The next game needs to have a build mode, because all these loopholes in the name of fast building are a cumulative pandora's box.

Definitely needs something like punkbuster that detects edited data.

Emergence wrote:See, it's the discussion of the impossible that irks me. Modifying and proliferation of gear and stats that one cannot obtain under any normal circumstances, and that is impossible without the modding has zero place in the game and is really no different thatn bb glitching to grief at low lvls with op gear. The moment that makes its way into online interaction, it cheapens the game and vision and creates distension and imbalance. The same way the Burg became basically unplayable online for newbies due to the bb glitch.

The next game needs to have a build mode, because all these loopholes in the name of fast building are a cumulative pandora's box.

Agreed. And I know for the system I used it was giving me options that aren't viable.

Chaos Bows with Lighting Arrows
Buffable Boss Weapons
Dark Hand +15

and other various options that have no place in the game...

Though looking at the bows...that could explain how I was 2shot in the forest once by a bow user...

Back on topic though: I agree, there should be a build mode. Everytime I come up with an idea for a build and load up my game, I am faced with this gauntlet I have to run through to even gain 1 part of the build. That could be a weapon, or a Tite Slab, or maybe a piece of armor, and this isn't to mention souls required for stats.

It makes trying new things impossibly time consuming, and as someone with a daughter and a full time job (not to mention online classes) I don't have time to play Dark Souls all the way through several times just to get a series of upgraded items to use.

In this respect I hope DkS2 is a bit different, allowing fewer requirements for upgrading a weapon/armor would be a BIG improvment in the game as a whole. Because if you need to go out of your way and gain souls to go back to buy something that allows you to move forward just so you can kill things to gain souls so you can eventually trade it all in for your desired weapon, that means that it instantly involves farming...and in the words of a famous woman and saint.

Ain't nobody got time fo dat!

Oh no, i'm glad the BB glitch is fixed. i'll try to list some things:

1- at the same time you could make builds extremly fast, you lost an important part of Dark Souls: farming. Yes it can be a pain in the ***, but when you have your character ready to go, you'll remember all the hard work and time you put there and its worth it.

2- we have mugenmonkey now

3- (in my opinion) There absolutely no fun about having maxed out equipment at level 1 ONLY to screw up other people online, being an invader or one shotting bosses. If that happened to me on my first playthrough I'd have probably sold dark souls long ago

4- Infinite items that you can't farm (divine blessings, elizabeth murshoms) The main diference about DkS and Demons PVP is that on Demons you had grass, and fights could last much longer, at the point of you suiciding for getting bored (again, this is me). Besides, a person who have 99 Eliz Shooms has much more chance to beat anyone who is playing without it, and are no different from lvl 1 griefers

Carphil wrote:Oh no, i'm glad the BB glitch is fixed. i'll try to list some things:

1- at the same time you could make builds extremly fast, you lost an important part of Dark Souls: farming. Yes it can be a pain in the ***, but when you have your character ready to go, you'll remember all the hard work and time you put there and its worth it.

2- we have mugenmonkey now

3- (in my opinion) There absolutely no fun about having maxed out equipment at level 1 ONLY to screw up other people online, being an invader or one shotting bosses. If that happened to me on my first playthrough I'd have probably sold dark souls long ago

4- Infinite items that you can't farm (divine blessings, elizabeth murshoms) The main diference about DkS and Demons PVP is that on Demons you had grass, and fights could last much longer, at the point of you suiciding for getting bored (again, this is me). Besides, a person who have 99 Eliz Shooms has much more chance to beat anyone who is playing without it, and are no different from lvl 1 griefers

1 - I can't agree that an important part of DkS is farming... I have played so many games in my life, and so many of them required farming that I just can't justify it anymore. To me it is jut a shamless way of adding hours to a game that don't need to be added. Call is angst against current game design stratagems and tactics, but I just can't justify spending the time on something that really doesn't add anything to the game except for the ability to get souls faster...

2 - Mugenmonkey can only go so far...I actually want to play the build I design

3 - I agree

4 - I also agree, but I still think they have their use in PvP, though anything that gets abused become irritating and eventually frowned upon.

LunarFog wrote:...Let's look at the things you both did:

You:
1.) Played on a modded character with modded stats
2.) Invaded a host who might not have wanted to have honest PvP fights
3.) Healed first
4.) Buffed(I find it annoying)

Him:
1.) Defended himself
2.) Got mad afterwards
...

He also hid for 10-15 minutes without signing out and presumably without even trying to challenge the boss. And obviously at that point had no clue what he was up against. So he's just being a jerk in a likelihood. I'm not cool with the modding, hiding, using DBs, or chaining. If I were watching a match like that on youtube, I'd be rooting for someone else to show up and clean house.

NPC: A lot of people get mad when you won't stand out in the open and let them BS fish/chain you. It's completely ridiculous, but there are plenty of people I fight who will constantly run at me trying to get my back. But, if I back up against a wall... they back way off and won't try any sort of attack and just try to pull me away from the wall. He probably sees nothing wrong with this and really lost it when you hit the DB. You either used an incredibly rare item randomly against this guy or you glitched/modded it. As far as I know, there hasn't been a way to glitch it in some time. So, that pretty much just leaves modding.

Anyway; if you don't mod you can ignore any messages like his with a clear conscience or if you feel like it tell him to fly a kite.

I basically want to say what Pendant said in your signature. I believe anyone who mods a character and brings it into online play is cheating others out of their experience of the game.

I believe your opponent deserved something dirty to compensate for his actions, but I don't think it justified modding.

Complaining about 'honour' yet has modded stats. lolwht?

Onion Knight wrote:Complaining about 'honour' yet has modded stats. lolwht?

Was never "complaining." As is said in the OP I was just looking for opinions. Since the majority seems to think taking a modded character into Competetive online play isn't fair, then that's the opinion I am going to relate to.

Will I still mod my save? Yes

Will I use my modded saves to gain an advantage in a true PvP match? No

More to the point, modding does not a bad person make. So I can still mod and have honor. In fact I intend to.

Either way, I have got what I wanted from this thread, and I thank everyone who gave me an honest opinion.

I personally hate modders IF they play Multiplayer. Want to make yourself an unkillable tank? Sure go for it, but if you ever invade then you lose my respect. I know you were still killable, but you had SO many advantages so he had to chain BS you to even thr playing field then you had to heal... i think you were the one in the wrong here NPC

lextune wrote:
....playing online with a modded toon is cheating. Not debatable.

I hate how the bottomless box glitch has been replaced with "soft" modding. Either for builds or armor or what have you. "It's ok if I cheat as long as I don't have infinite hp!!!"

It's not ok...it's still cheating...period.

personally i dont care if someone mods, its all part of the game. people will always find a way to cheat. what matters is what you do with it. if i played on PC i would mod my characters to be pvp ready as soon as i made them, because im @ the point of the game where thats all i do any more.

i though it would be neat to mod the crap out of a character and invade people worlds with a sorta "old Kind dorian" type thing. go easy on them and if they can take you down give them slabs and whatnot then Black Crystal out.

anyone the point im trying to get @ is it depends on the person. a character thats barely modded i could really care less about because its just gonna be the difference between a low sl fighting high sl via dark wraithing, its gonna come down to skill.

now when someone is grossly modded, infinate hp, ninja flipping in blatently heavy armor with twin DGM or Havel Hammers, thats when i start to have a problem with it, but i dont hatemail. ill suicide, if i live long enough to, and just report them as a cheater. weather anything comes out of it i dont really care, but i did my part.

Phoenix Rising wrote:

lextune wrote:
....playing online with a modded toon is cheating. Not debatable.

I hate how the bottomless box glitch has been replaced with "soft" modding. Either for builds or armor or what have you. "It's ok if I cheat as long as I don't have infinite hp!!!"

It's not ok...it's still cheating...period.

Can't disagree more.

The only difference between using a save mod to give myself a +15 Uchi and playing to get a +15 Uchi is hours of playtime. I don't find hours of play time a worth while investment for something that is practically required for certain builds.

For example. Lets say I want to make a silver knight build, and I play through the game until my stats are right where I want them, then I save mod to give myself the Silver Knight Set (Including Straight Sword and Shield) the only difference is that instead of going to Anor Londo / having a friend drop them for me as well as farming forever just to be able to upgrade them.

I mean here is how I look at it:

You go to a store and see a gift you want to ppurchase, but the merchat is a crude seller, and wants a bottle of wine instead of money. So you run across the street and try and buy some wine, but the grocer wants a Baby Doll (no one asks why) and you run across town to the toy store to buy this baby doll only to find that there are hundreds of unpacked boxes that may or maynot have baby dolls in them. The owner gives you a crowbar and wishes you luck as you proceed to open box after box hoping for a baby doll. When you finally find one, you run back to the wine, then take the wine to the store so you can buy that one item you wanted.

All in all your trip took you a few hours.

The alternative is say "No." at the very begining "Ain't nobody got time for day." and just take the gift, and leave.

Some people refer to this as stealing...I then tell them that is a metaphor and to not dwell on it, but the message stands true.

Personally I don't have time to farm for the things I need to make the items I want...so does that mean I have to go without PvP?