Modding VS Being a poor sport

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    Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:58 pm

    Ok, so a while ago I joined the dark side and modded one of my characters. I used a simple save editor and just went to town, though I used Discretion (HP is only 2000 so still beatable) and beefed up some other stats and a few weapons. I ran through the game, having a grand old time killing the world, and I decided I would try invading in Anor Londo.

    Now, when I invade, I set a certain set of rules, especially for my modded toon.

    1. Always Bow or Wave
    2. Drop an item (if possible) to show that I am not here to be an ***
    3. Only Buff my weapon/self once
    4. Never backstab
    5. Never Riposte
    6. Never Divine Blessing
    7. Nothing OP (Fast rolling Havel, Dark Bead Spam, etc)
    8. Fight fair and even.

    Now, if the opponent has a Summoned Phantom in his/her world, then I offer to fight one at a time, if they gang up on me, I will try my best to obey my rules; however, if they start backstab fishing, or spamming WotG, etc, I pop a Divine and all bets are off.

    This isn't the main point here however,

    Yesterday I was invading Anor Londo with my modded toon.

    Shadow Set +5

    Washing Pole +5
    Darkmoon Tali
    Ascended Flame +5

    Ring of Favor
    Dark Wood Grain

    HP ~2000 (Maybe a little less at this time...don't remember exactly but it was around here)

    Sunlight Blade
    Darkmoon Blade
    Power Within

    A decent (and viable) set up.

    I invaded and this guy was nowhere to be found. It took me a good 10-15 min to find him, and he was hiding in the room with the Royal Sentries on the High Balcony by the broken window where you find the Dragonslayer Bow. I led him down to the bridge before the spinning staircase, and bowed.

    Ignoring my bow, he charged me and hit me with Obsidian Greatsword. I flipped away and buffed, then charged. I'm not great at PvP. In fact I am rather terrible, even with a modded toon, and I manage to do very little damage to this man with my Sunlight Blade Washing Pole. My buff fades and now it just vanilla sword and dodge tactics.

    All is going well, until he starts to back stab fish me. I was hit by two, and had practially no health left, so because he decided to chain stab me, I popped a divine and charged again. He was far enough away to pop a humainty and the fight continued. Finally after about 10-15min of on less than par pvp work on my end, I managed to get bs'd to death, and then recieve wave after wave of hate mail from this guy. To which I replied "Why are you so mad? You won O_O"

    What I would like to know is how you feel about the subject.

    Was I in the right for playing that way (albeit besides using a modded toon.) Or should I have held back from using a divine and let him bs me?

    This also bring to mind another question:

    Is it okay to mod so long as you are responsible and doing it to save time as opposed to doing it to make yourself unbeatable?


    Disclaimer:

    I don't typically PvP with my Modded Toon, typically I will invade, toy aaround, drop an item or to, then BSC or kill myself, other than that I help people with bosses like O&S or Quelaag. I also realize that by posting this I run the risk of running into the brick wall that is the annti-modding morals of alot of players....oh well.



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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:07 pm

    Hard to judge without having seen it. I'd wager that you both might have been in the wrong I know you said you used discretion - which I totally believe, but you did DB pop really gets under the skin of some people.

    So I guess what I'm saying is, I would like to reserve judgement on this one.

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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:11 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Hard to judge without having seen it. I'd wager that you both might have been in the wrong I know you said you used discretion - which I totally believe, but you did DB pop really gets under the skin of some people.

    So I guess what I'm saying is, I would like to reserve judgement on this one.

    I completely understand. And I thank you for being fair and honest.

    Though, I've fought plenty of people who DB, and I never really think about it...maybe beacuse I suck at PvP silly


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by Emergence on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:13 pm

    You're opening a can of worms with this. Before this discussion begins, let me remind that it's ok to discuss the context of modding but in no way are people to specify how TO mod.

    Secondly, this discussion better remain civil. Even though save editing and bb glitching were often used for the same reason (to expedite pvp builds), they each brought about more unscrupulous connotations that were abused by griefers. It's for these negative applications that we have forbidden discussing how to perform them, but discussing the merits of yay or nay are ok.


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:18 pm

    Emergence wrote:You're opening a can of worms with this. Before this discussion begins, let me remind that it's ok to discuss the context of modding but in no way are people to specify how TO mod.

    Secondly, this discussion better remain civil. Even though save editing and bb glitching were often used for the same reason (to expedite pvp builds), they each brought about more unscrupulous connotations that were abused by griefers. It's for these negative applications that we have forbidden discussing how to perform them, but discussing the merits of yay or nay are ok.

    Thank you Emergence, and I have no intention of explaining the How To (honestly, I couldn't say even if I wanted to, as it is my best friend's handy work)

    But yes, all I use this for is to expidite PvP builds and Cosplay builds.


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by LunarFog on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:23 pm

    Emergence wrote:

    Secondly, this discussion better remain civil.

    ... twisted jkjk

    Let's look at the things you both did:

    You:
    1.) Played on a modded character with modded stats
    2.) Invaded a host who might not have wanted to have honest PvP fights
    3.) Healed first
    4.) Buffed(I find it annoying)

    Him:
    1.) Defended himself
    2.) Got mad afterwards


    If you invade you should at least expect a "win-at-all-costs" mindset. If it was me I would have happily backtracked with my shield up until your buff ran out, spammed, and then chain bs'd you until you died. And I would've spammed "Well What is it" until you went back to your world and then sent you a message afterward

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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:27 pm

    LunarFog wrote:
    Emergence wrote:

    Secondly, this discussion better remain civil.

    ... twisted jkjk

    Let's look at the things you both did:

    You:
    1.) Played on a modded character with modded stats
    2.) Invaded a host who might not have wanted to have honest PvP fights
    3.) Healed first
    4.) Buffed(I find it annoying)

    Him:
    1.) Defended himself
    2.) Got mad afterwards


    Yeah...I have been noticing that people don't buff as much as they used to...and when I get BSchained I get pissy so I healed...but in hindsight, maybe I should have just played it off...

    Another question...why don't people buff (or like it when their opponent does) anymore? I have noticed a few of the times I invade and I buff my Uchi with Sunlight Blade (On my non modded DEX/FTH might I stress this fact: unmodded) that the people just turn heel and run.

    Shrug


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:30 pm

    I used to not have a problem with buffs, I would even let my opponent buff and would buff in turn, now it's so looked down upon I don't even know what to do with any of my buff builds anymore because buffing now makes me uncomfortable.

    Heck, even grassing has become a no-no these days.

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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:35 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I used to not have a problem with buffs, I would even let my opponent buff and would buff in turn, now it's so looked down upon I don't even know what to do with any of my buff builds anymore because buffing now makes me uncomfortable.

    Heck, even grassing has become a no-no these days.

    Next thing you know, its going to be straight brawler builds.

    No Rings
    No Active Buffs
    No Upgraded weapons

    Lets do this mideveal style!

    Shield

    Weapon

    Come at me, Broeth!


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:38 pm

    He was being hostile. You were cheating. I think your actions in the fight were completely reasonable except for modding.
    And on the topic of buffing-I find that odd. I'm built as a dark quality spellsword and am best with a CMW straight sword. I often have pursuers and dark bead attuned as well and I do better with my sword. (though I haven't done the apparently deadly pursuers then dark bead while he or she is rolling combo) I've never gotten hatemail for it-actually, ever, in Dark Souls.


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by Rynn on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:23 pm

    2000 HP is over the top. 2000 HP is 65 vitality with a Ring of Favor and Protection.

    I'd be mad too while fighting that.
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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:46 pm

    Wait, you had 2000 HP without mom/FAP???? If so you're cheating very bad. I mean what's your stats/SL?? Then you expect for the majority to be nice while invading...never expect honor in invasions.

    I understand DB healing after surviving chain bs, I don't know which one is worst. But DB while being ganked by a bunch of noobs is cowardice. I know it's 3vs1 but your breaking the game by DB healing where there are, although not many, options for survival. Having such a strict code for invasion you should add DB healing vs modders/hackers and DB healers, not bs fishers, spell spammers, gankers. Those are just part of the game, DB healing isn't. Is ironic don't you think? Don't be afraid to use any means to kill the host, but do so by following the game code (no glitches) is the most fun way imo.


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by Maneater_Mildred on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:59 pm

    I have been out of the game for to long it seems and am out of date with accepted code of conduct.

    But I still believe healing in a fight is not on, even if he bs you, no need to sink lower by healing.

    As to the modding.... I don't think I will go there.

    So to sum up... Even if you think the other player is being cheap, you should have your own honor to think about. Find what you think is right and stick to it no matter what.


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by lextune on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:07 pm

    You asked for opinions, but I'll give you some facts instead....

    ....playing online with a modded toon is cheating. Not debatable.

    Unless he was also cheating you are in the wrong in every way.


    Last edited by lextune on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:07 pm

    @Rynn: Naturally, but its not unstoppable. Just a little more time oriented. Granted some builds in DS are time sensitive (POwer Within Builds, Sorceres, Pyros...any casters really) but I can still be toppled. Though I understand what you mean.


    WyrmHero wrote:Wait, you had 2000 HP without mom/FAP???? If so you're cheating very bad. I mean what's your stats/SL?? Then you expect for the majority to be nice while invading...never expect honor in invasions.

    Save mods allow you to change your stats without altering your SL, so those numbers really don't mean much in this case.

    But no, I had 2000 with FAP. I listed what I had equiped. (Max hp in the game with Max VIT + Mom Mask + FAP + Tiny Ring = 2565

    VIT 99 = 1900

    +35% (Ring of Favor, Mask of the Mother, Tiny Being Ring)

    So yeah, My hp technically would have been viable, though at a higher SL (I believe the guy I invaded was around SL65? Not too sure...) So I can see where his anger came from...

    Honestly though, I think this has massively changed my mind about how I mod my saves...I don't think I will ever mod my stats again...items are another story as I don't want to spend several hours trying to get a +15 Uchi...

    WyrmHero wrote:I understand DB healing after surviving chain bs, I don't know which one is worst. But DB while being ganked by a bunch of noobs is cowardice. I know it's 3vs1 but your breaking the game by DB healing where there are, although not many, options for survival. Having such a strict code for invasion you should add DB healing vs modders/hackers and DB healers, not bs fishers, spell spammers, gankers. Those are just part of the game, DB healing isn't. Is ironic don't you think? Don't be afraid to use any means to kill the host, but do so by following the game code (no glitches) is the most fun way imo.

    I disagree here. I find DB healing is more a part of the game than gankers, spammers, and BS fisherman. I mean, they are going out of their way to employ cheap tactics to win...so why can't I employ cheap tactics to survive?

    This is all opinion based, and I really appreciate people posting honestly big grin


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:10 pm

    lextune wrote:You asked for opinions, but I'll give you some facts instead....

    ....playing online with a modded toon is cheating. Not debatable.

    Unless he was also cheating you are in the wrong in every way.

    Thank you for your opinion, and yes, I am starting to agree with this mindset; however, I feel that adding items via external influences (either given to you by another player or by a mod) is something that doesn't break the game, only allows you to not have to spend hours and hours of farming to obtain.



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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by Rynn on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:13 pm

    That being said, you're on X-box...
    Mind getting me some +15 dragonslayer arrows?
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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:13 pm

    Maneater_Mildred wrote:I have been out of the game for to long it seems and am out of date with accepted code of conduct.

    But I still believe healing in a fight is not on, even if he bs you, no need to sink lower by healing.

    As to the modding.... I don't think I will go there.

    So to sum up... Even if you think the other player is being cheap, you should have your own honor to think about. Find what you think is right and stick to it no matter what.

    Hm...to be honest I have thought of this, but when something like my invasion happens, I find myself getting caught up in my anger at certain things, and end up lowering myself to their level by healing or what-have-you.

    I should really keep my cool and be honorable...

    Keep Calm



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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by lextune on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:14 pm

    If a character can actually be built in the game normally, and you don't grief with him, then you can make the argument in my opinion. (I don't want to farm chunks anymore either).

    ....but changing your hp or stamina or soul level in any way is total crap.


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:16 pm

    lextune wrote:If a character can actually be built in the game normally, and you don't grief with him, then you can make the argument in my opinion. (I don't want to farm chunks anymore either).

    ....but changing your hp or stamina or soul level in any way is total crap.

    Agreed, and it is something I will never do again. (I am going to keep this toon so I can troll. Invading someone with Chameleon and just being an annoyance is too much fun to pass up)


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by Rynn on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:17 pm

    One thing I did with modding once was I lowered my int, attunement, and faith to 0, then removed the SL's I lost from my stats.

    I liked that character. I never used it to PvP.
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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by NPCWhiteMage on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:20 pm

    Rynn wrote:One thing I did with modding once was I lowered my int, attunement, and faith to 0, then removed the SL's I lost from my stats.

    I liked that character. I never used it to PvP.

    Clever.

    My friend and I are devising a way of using the mod to make things a bit more interesing.

    - Using dice rolls to determine starting equipment / spells / items / sould

    - Making the game harder to provide more of a challenge (2 Calamity Rings and lower than normal VIT

    - Etc

    We also found out we have access to a few things that we have vowed to never use...

    Infintie Darkmoon Blade
    Escape Death

    May my pride as a human being be shattered should I ever touch those...


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:21 pm

    I disagree here. I find DB healing is more a part of the game than gankers, spammers, and BS fisherman. I mean, they are going out of their way to employ cheap tactics to win...so why can't I employ cheap tactics to survive?

    It isn't, you can't get DBs in anyway other than glitching/hacking/trading from previous glitcher. Cheap is subjective, the most experienced you get at the game the less cheap things become. However glitching will always be cheap because it isn't part of the game.


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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by densetsushun on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:21 pm

    What you end up doing is your business, so I won't judge you for what you did. Whether or not it's to be frowned upon to make a character that's real and viable through modding is not something I'll go in on, but if you're modding your HP without changing your vit to be the equivalent to it, you're unfairly displacing the balance in your favor, not to mention you're warping the game past its limits. In my opinion and from my perspective, you should not be playing competitively with that toon. If it's a realistically feasible toon but you used the mod to cut the time down from 20+ hours to 1, that's something different.


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    Rynn
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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

    Post by Rynn on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:24 pm

    NPCWhiteMage wrote:
    Rynn wrote:One thing I did with modding once was I lowered my int, attunement, and faith to 0, then removed the SL's I lost from my stats.

    I liked that character. I never used it to PvP.

    Clever.

    My friend and I are devising a way of using the mod to make things a bit more interesing.

    - Using dice rolls to determine starting equipment / spells / items / sould

    - Making the game harder to provide more of a challenge (2 Calamity Rings and lower than normal VIT

    - Etc

    We also found out we have access to a few things that we have vowed to never use...

    Infintie Darkmoon Blade
    Escape Death

    May my pride as a human being be shattered should I ever touch those...
    I'd be facinated to have 10 copies of DMB for a Darkmoon knightess build for PvP. Also I've somewhat wished to have escape death for forest hosting before.

    One thing I've considered using a modding device for is to give myself a maximum HP of 6. (So that i can equip a symbol of avarice to lower HP to 1.)

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    Re: Modding VS Being a poor sport

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