I personally don't think experience has much to do with what is an isn't cheap. The Zwei isn't cheap because even versus a complete nublet it's reasonably difficult to get that first whack off. (We've been dodging Havels Great Club for a long *** time). Greatswords used to be "Cheap" and Curved GS's still are because the accomplish the same effect as the zwei with less counter time for the receiving player and the same basic "1 hit and you're practically dead" effect that you're stating the Zwei is rationalized as cheap for. No amount of skill reduces the cheapness of a tactic, it just means that a more skilled player can handle more tactics efficiently.Saturday-Saint wrote:I have another question about cheapness. The nature of a competitive game is that in order to execute a strategy, you must be better at performing it than your opponent is at countering it. So if your opponent is very good at countering a strategy, it becomes harder to perform. Because of this, does the cheapness of a strategy change depending on how good your opponent is? E.G. Zweihander stunlock is easy to do (mash R1) and hard to counter (you have to roll with specific timing or you get hit out of lag, you also have to know how to use i-frames to avoid getting hit by lag, and you need to learn the swing animation of the Zwei, etc.) for a new player. It also does a lot of damage, a QHander 4-hit stunlock is like 2k+ damage, so it's powerful. Is it therefore cheap? A more experienced player will know how to avoid a Zweihander easily, making the stunlock difficult to land, therefore less cheap. In addition, he will weapon swap out, being hit perhaps only once or twice.
The only rationalization I can come up with is that that Zweihander stunlock is both cheap and not cheap. It is cheap when used against an inexperienced player (easy to perform and powerful) but not against an experienced opponent (difficult to perform and not as powerful).
Once more, cheap doesn't mean it needs removed, or even nerfed.