Do you want a hard mode?

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    Do you want a hard mode?

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    Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by GrinTwist on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:05 am

    Yes, this a direct spin off of RenegadCop's "Do you want an easy mode?", but it just came to my mind while I was watching ENB's Easy Mode video, that what if we had the option have accessing a hard mode.

    It's a bit self explanatory, the hard mode would basically be NG+ but you would be able to select it from the beginning of the game if you wanted to start off with more of a challenge.

    So would you be in support of starting off on a "hard mode"?


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:25 am

    Yes, I'd want it. But it doesn't need to be a NG+ right off the bat. Perma-black phantoms will do just fine.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Fossil on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:28 am

    I almost posted something like this in that thread. If there was an "easy" mode it should just be what normal mode is now, and then hard/normal mode would just be... harder.

    I don't particularly care if there is a hard mode though as long as the game is as challenging as the previous ones.

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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Acarnatia on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:35 am

    I prefer to avert modes altogether. I much prefer a hard mode over an easy mode, though.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:46 am

    Yep. Start in NG+.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Myztyrio on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:44 am

    I want everyone's mode to be the same. The skilled players should be rewarded. The CODscrubs should be warded off. silly


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by ChizFreak on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:55 am

    I want a "every enemy is a black phantom mode, and also there are more enemies" mode. Perma Gravelord it's easy because it just adds a few black phantoms close to (or sometimes even instead of) common enemies. If every enemy would be black phantom and also there were more enemies, that would be cool.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by ChizFreak on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:57 am



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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Soris Ice Goldwing on Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:00 am

    I think can all benefit a better mix of Demon and Dark Souls difficulty in the next game. I agree with Myztrio about the skilled players being rewarded, something that really challenges us right from the start.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:14 am

    I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Having a hard mode simply gives them an excuse to put in easy mode, which is bad in my opinion. Also, the difficulty in souls is meant to be organic as possible, if you want hard mode, how about you just do an SL1 run, or don't upgrade your weapons?

    In my opinion, there's no real point in a hard mode, and it will corrupt the whole one difficulty fits all banner that's become a signature of the series


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Onion Knight on Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:43 am

    This is going down the road of artificial difficulty, which is equally as bad as adding an easy mode.
    Also it would turn into the Dragon's Dogma scenario except the opposite way round.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:12 am

    Serious_Much wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Having a hard mode simply gives them an excuse to put in easy mode, which is bad in my opinion. Also, the difficulty in souls is meant to be organic as possible, if you want hard mode, how about you just do an SL1 run, or don't upgrade your weapons?

    In my opinion, there's no real point in a hard mode, and it will corrupt the whole one difficulty fits all banner that's become a signature of the series

    But Sl1 blind playthrough with black phantoms and NG+?


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:09 pm

    Buggy Virus wrote:
    Serious_Much wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Having a hard mode simply gives them an excuse to put in easy mode, which is bad in my opinion. Also, the difficulty in souls is meant to be organic as possible, if you want hard mode, how about you just do an SL1 run, or don't upgrade your weapons?

    In my opinion, there's no real point in a hard mode, and it will corrupt the whole one difficulty fits all banner that's become a signature of the series

    But Sl1 blind playthrough with black phantoms and NG+?

    I wouldn't call that 'hard' as much as 'stupid', but whatever you wanna try.

    Honestly I'd get bored doing that, everything would take way too long on a playthrough like that..


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Seignar on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:27 pm

    Amazing how 1 word can change everyone's understanding. I don't think you all understand that since the Souls series only has 1 difficulty, it is, by default, also the hardest one. Hence, it is already a "hard mode".

    If you would put in a "hard mode" option in the game, then "Normal" mode would just be the equivalent of "easy" mode and Hard mode would be "Normal mode". Half of you just said "yes" to what you would have otherwise said "No" to just because of a change in words.

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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by eminusx on Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:51 pm

    . . . dont fanny about with the formula too much is what I think, its beautiful as it is, and the inability to choose just emphasises that its about triumph over adversity, there is no choice, either you persevere and learn how to play the game, or you go home!


    . . .unless youre already home, which you probably will be 🇳🇴




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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by ChizFreak on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:41 pm

    Seignar wrote:Amazing how 1 word can change everyone's understanding. I don't think you all understand that since the Souls series only has 1 difficulty, it is, by default, also the hardest one. Hence, it is already a "hard mode".

    If you would put in a "hard mode" option in the game, then "Normal" mode would just be the equivalent of "easy" mode and Hard mode would be "Normal mode". Half of you just said "yes" to what you would have otherwise said "No" to just because of a change in words.

    Em... No. I want the series' difficulty to remain the same, but I also want an option to have an EVEN HIGHER challenge than the normal-already-difficult experience. SL1 as Serious said, it's plain stupid, as it would be boring because of how long it takes to kill everything.

    I just want a way to make all the monsters stronger and also that more monsters appear. But I don't want any modification to the original formula, neither I want an easier mode.

    Let's say, something like this: You beat the game, then when you create a new character, you have the choice of "Enable Dark Mode", that causes every enemy to be a black phantom, even bosses. That doesn't modify the original formula, doesn't make it easier, but gives the chance to veterans to test even further their skill without recurring to ridicolous self-imposed limits like SL1 runs.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by tinypantha on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:36 pm

    Or you know we can just keep it the way it is...
    It isnt inventie but it is the better route.
    hmm... Dark souls hard mode starts in NG+? wouldnt that technically make normal NG- in a sense?
    Also it would be a wonderful Troll move.
    Imagine sumoning a easy mode nub to a NG+++++ boss fight XD


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Aevun on Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:47 pm

    The thing with NG+ is that it's just an arbitrary change in difficulty rather than an organic one, if that makes sense. The only difference is that enemies have more health and they do more damage. The whole NG+ system needs to be revamped if that's what hard mode is going to essentially be. Enemies in different places, enemies that only appear in NG+, better AI for enemies etc. and not just a few numeric values being changed.

    I'm on the fence with hard mode. I certainly prefer it over the addition of an easy mode, but I kind of dislike the idea of having modes in general. Maybe when you start a save (if you've already beaten the game on NG) you could choose what NG+ to play on, but again, it needs to be a more balanced and generally better system to work.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:12 pm

    Where's the I don't care about it at all choice?
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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:29 am

    ChizFreak wrote:

    Em... No. I want the series' difficulty to remain the same, but I also want an option to have an EVEN HIGHER challenge than the normal-already-difficult experience. SL1 as Serious said, it's plain stupid, as it would be boring because of how long it takes to kill everything.

    I just want a way to make all the monsters stronger and also that more monsters appear. But I don't want any modification to the original formula, neither I want an easier mode.

    Let's say, something like this: You beat the game, then when you create a new character, you have the choice of "Enable Dark Mode", that causes every enemy to be a black phantom, even bosses. That doesn't modify the original formula, doesn't make it easier, but gives the chance to veterans to test even further their skill without recurring to ridicolous self-imposed limits like SL1 runs.

    Actually chiz, I was referring to black phantom mode as dumb, whether you do an sl1 run or normal with black phantoms it will be stupid either way. You're just dressing up essentially the same turd of a solution in two different jackets, while suggesting one is better than the other.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by DemonRider909 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:42 am

    I'd prefer no modes whatsoever in a Souls game, be it sequel or prequel. What I do want though, is for it to be harder. Subsantially harder. If they do end up making difficulty settings, then they'd better put something for "Very Hard" or higher, and give you access right from the beginning big grin. Otherwise, I'm not buying. But in truth, difficulty settings will break the online in quite a few different ways. If they want to expand on the online component, then keep difficulty out. Again, just make it HARDER twisted.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by Seignar on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:55 am

    Instead of debating whether we need a "Hard" mode selection or not, why can't we just debate on ways on how to improve NG+? You know, the game's hard mode that we already have?

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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by eminusx on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:59 am

    Seignar wrote:Instead of debating whether we need a "Hard" mode selection or not, why can't we just debate on ways on how to improve NG+? You know, the game's hard mode that we already have?

    makes perfect sense to me!

    personally, NG+ could be improved by:

    - varying enemy positions and adding in extra weight in numbers (tactfully & strategically though! dont just pepper the place with enemies, design failure indeed!)
    - including some items only attainable through NG+, but only a few rare items, 3 rings, 3 weapons, 3 shields, 3 armour etc light and heavy. . .
    - including some NPC interactions only available via NG+, maybe they would divulge more of the lore etc
    - some areas only accessible in NG+. some might argue against this, why is it not in 'normal' mode etc but as you progress further into NG+ etc a chief mechanic is personal achievement, you keep moving forward and achieving more, achievement is its own prize, but it would be nice to have some rare acknowledgement of how far you have travelled and be able to flash your spoils at your fellow journeymen!
    - slight variation in enemies, even if its just a tarted up colour scheme, armour etc. it would add an extra dimension.

    these are only really cosmetic additions I know, but we all enjoy reaching out for that something new!


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by ChizFreak on Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:44 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:

    Em... No. I want the series' difficulty to remain the same, but I also want an option to have an EVEN HIGHER challenge than the normal-already-difficult experience. SL1 as Serious said, it's plain stupid, as it would be boring because of how long it takes to kill everything.

    I just want a way to make all the monsters stronger and also that more monsters appear. But I don't want any modification to the original formula, neither I want an easier mode.

    Let's say, something like this: You beat the game, then when you create a new character, you have the choice of "Enable Dark Mode", that causes every enemy to be a black phantom, even bosses. That doesn't modify the original formula, doesn't make it easier, but gives the chance to veterans to test even further their skill without recurring to ridicolous self-imposed limits like SL1 runs.

    Actually chiz, I was referring to black phantom mode as dumb, whether you do an sl1 run or normal with black phantoms it will be stupid either way. You're just dressing up essentially the same turd of a solution in two different jackets, while suggesting one is better than the other.

    No, because Black Phantoms have increased health and attack power, you can still develop your character in any way you want, but beating enemies is way harder. While in SL1 yourself have decreased attack power (thus increasing fights' length), and you are limited to your character development, because of this everyone "equals" a Black Phantom as most things will kill you in 1 hit. They are not the same thing AT ALL.

    And my suggestion is not equal to NG+, because NG+ sends your already existing character that just beat the game to the start of the game but with everything harder, what I'm saying, it's that once you beat the game with any character, every time you CREATE A NEW CHARACTER, you are given the option to start in the "Dark Mode" which is already harder from the start.


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    Re: Do you want a hard mode?

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:47 pm

    There should be a "standard" difficulty, which is the same as DKS, and an "experienced" difficulty, which is for people who have been playing Soul's games for a while and know the formula well enough that it ain't hard anymore. Experienced difficulty cuts out almost all allowance for errors, but still follows the same formula as the standard mode.


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