Hardcore mode

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    Infighter
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    Hardcore mode

    Post by Infighter on Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:53 pm

    So, you think DKS2 will be easy, well I have an idea here that From could kinda implement if they wanted to.

    I love ARPG Games Diablo 2, Path of Exile and so on, they have a unique mode that challenges the players that find normal mode easy.

    A Hardcore mode, when you die you lose everything, and have to start over.

    Now imagine this mode being in the game after you completed NG or NG+ and so on.

    After your character dies, he becomes hollow, a part of this world a black phantom, and when your new character will enter the same place where your previous character died, that previous character invades as BP, drops souls humanity etc, and random piece of equipment.

    A hardcore mode, would be just as normal mode (which should be hard, even harder than Dark Souls, or even Demon Souls) just for more replay-ability and for hardcore players, PvP doesn't count as hardcore death, or should it?


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Aevun on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:09 pm

    I'm very much against the notion of game modes chosen from a menu. If there is a "one life" system, it needs to be integrated into the gameplay. I'm imagining an optional boss, or several, that could kill you, permanently. Great risk, but also a great reward at the end. Would need to be balanced, but hey, that problem already exists.

    EDIT: Now that I think of it, this idea could be realised via an end-game ring that, once equipped, cannot be removed and stops you from resurrecting at a bonfire. Can only be equipped at the start of NG+ and yields a reward once the final boss is defeated.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Infighter on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:22 pm

    I think it could be hidden by From, in later parts of NG's, a special ring indeed, or special consumable item or something


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by cerealaire on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:56 am

    this should be an option i like the idea but then whats going to happen to the bonfires? also if the ring of sacrifice is in the game or "hardcore" part of the side what will happen?


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Infighter on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:23 am

    There could be no rings of sacrifice unless, there is boss like Seath, you couldn't kindle bonfires for max estus only roll with 5.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by crbngville2 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:18 am

    To the Op:

    Not just no, but hell no. Part and parcel of the Souls series is that there is no difficulty slider. That should not change, ever.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by twigsterxd on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:10 am

    I say no as well. Without farming for souls, losing them all together would be a nightmare. Since the cost of souls go up everytime you level, imagine needing 1 mil souls to boost 1 level. Way too annoying. Also, if you want the game harder, just use a weapon at base. Having a difficulty setting in souls is NOT the way souls work.
    Also, your guy starting where you died? No game that I know of does that. Makes no sense. If you suck at PvE, it wouldn't matter if you died 100 times. You would just die closer to the end of that stage. Where's the challenge in that? You get invaded, die, invaders gone, and you start in same spot like you rage quit and reloaded game.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by skarekrow13 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:58 am

    Hardcore mode? No one....and I mean no one.....has apparently taken me up on my version of the Dark Souls hardcore mode (I know I haven't done it).

    Beat the game with no equipment except for the broken sword hilt. But wait, before you hit any enemies with it, you must bash it against a wall until it's durability is zero. That's right, I'm talking about the:

    Broken Broken Sword Hilt challenge.

    So I'm also a no on any "mode" to make it harder. We can impose any degree of difficulty we desire already.

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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by StiffNipples on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:50 pm

    I think a few of you misunderstand what Hardcore Mode means. It has nothing to do with a difficulty slider for making the game harder by making enemies have more HP, do more damage, etc.

    It just means that when you die your character becomes unplayable.


    People already do hardcore play throughs where upon death they delete their character save, this would just be a mode that forces this restriction upon people that choose it (and also gives you a way to prove what you've accomplished without streaming/recording the whole playthrough).


    Honestly I think it would be really cool, however it would also be a little at odds with the way Souls games have worked. But I believe FROM could easily make it work.

    In saying that, I would really like the option to select a Hardcore Character when you make your character, all it needs to be is a little tick box or a certain starting gift (with a clear description) or something.

    If it was done like Diablo/PoE/Etc where the Hardcore mode Players are on a server of their own it would be best. That way you won't get griefed by Normal players in PvP.

    They would also need to make it that if you die in PvP (whether as a host or invader) your character becomes void (to make it fair, otherwise everyone would just invade), unless you battle in a place like the Battle of Stoicism where a death just kicks you from the Arena.  

    This would be great for Twitch streamers too, as the bragging rights that comes with having an alive/active Hardcore PvP character would be attractive to many, and the intensity of the fights would be palpable.


    I think if implemented right this would be a cool addition to the Souls games, however the Hardcore league would need to be separate from the Standard league in the same way as other games that have this mode have done, and it would need to be available from the very start, not after completing a playthrough (which imo is against the Souls ethos).


    EDIT: It would also be cool that when a player dies in hardcore mode their current death state character becomes a wandering black phantom (for the area they died in) in a random standard mode players game, much like a vagrant, where they drop a large amount of souls (15k, 30k, or whatevers balanced) and some humanity (or equivalent).


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Animaaal on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:22 pm

    I don't see the appeal, but I've been putting of getting new glasses for about a year now. Shrug 
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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by StiffNipples on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:41 am

    The appeal is pretty much e-peen size for most.

    It's great for streamers and those that want the extra pressure of not being allowed to stuff up. It's also cool that you can screenshot somewhere end game and say "I did the game without dying, here's proof" rather than having to stream/record the entire thing.


    But mostly it's just bragging rights/extra pressure.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by steveswede on Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:07 am

    I wouldn't mind seeing a curse ring or a curse eye item to fill your world with black phantoms for a bigger challenge.  This to me is far better than having sliders as you could give the extra challenge more depth.  Imagine you curse your world to farm for bigger souls and to farm super rare items that can only be obtained from black phantoms, curse your world and set black phantoms on you enemies using undead rapport and curse your world to spawn black phantom bosses. This to me is more fun.
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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Dibsville on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:01 am

    I don't see why we would need this...

    What's wrong with the traditional "Quit out and delete your file if you die" method?


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:09 am

    Hardcore mode? I personally am against the notion of difficulty choices on souls- doesn't suit the game.

    The game on itself is on hard mode- a cruel, but fair system that punishes your mistakes, punishes you lack of familiarity and punishes you well, just for being there.

    If you need a hardcore mode, make it yourself- no shield, fist weapons, bows only, no magic, low level, no armour, scavenger only, no bonfire and everything in between. The beauty of souls in it's organic difficulty is the simple fact that the way you approach the game is whether it is easy or not. Sure any seasoned pro will be able to fight his way through NG no prob with a regular build, but would he do so with a lefty build? would he be able to beat the game if he had no armour and used fist weapons? Probably, but it would be incredibly hard for him.

    The fact is, Dark Souls hardcore mode already exists. It's only by neglecting the various crutches and easier paths through the game that this idea comes into light. 'Hardcore mode' isn't a setting, it's done by approaching the game with a different plan, a different method and a different setup that makes the game's punishing creations come into their own.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by StiffNipples on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:33 am

    Look Skyward 


    This isn't about a difficulty slider, Hardcore mode just means you can't die, as when you die the character becomes unplayable.  
     
    The game is exactly the same, no extra difficulty to the enemies or bosses, it's just Perma-death mode.

    Dibsville wrote:What's wrong with the traditional "Quit out and delete your file if you die" method?

    Nothing, when doing it for your own satisfaction, but a designated mode would make it a lot easier to prove to randoms on the internet that you did it (because some people need verification, and I know I don't believe everything I read on the net). Currently the only way to prove you never died is by recording the entire play through, and I know I don't have that HDD space.

    It would also get more people to try it, which would make for better players all around imo and make for another new part of the community, which would also be cool.

    Generally in games with HC mode there are two metas, one for Standard and one for HC, it's just a cool mode that is easy to implement that essentially doubles the fun/depth/community/etc of the game.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:44 am

    My point was more the fact we can have an uber hard playthrough without the need of any sort of mode. I referred to personal sets of choices to increase difficulty. Why would simply deleting a character if he dies once not be included in that set of choices?

    You could have a 'perma death' mode simply by choice without the need of another setting.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:45 pm

    To me, a more appropriate hardcore mode would simply be to bring back the weight restrictions of Demon's Souls.  We weren't allowed to haul around a dump truck full of gear, and had to choose our goodies with care.
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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Walter_White on Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:51 am

    and bring back wt and ct for even more challenge
    ...oh wait there are rumors about a DeS2 - let DeS2 handle that


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:08 pm

    I personally think wt and ct were good ideas, but terribly handled. Online manipulation was annoying, lack of ways to change tendency sucked... If they use it again there needs to be more in depth manipulation and rewards and sidequests from it too, so it's more worthwhile


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Undiscovery on Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:21 pm

    Back Lot Basher wrote:To me, a more appropriate hardcore mode would simply be to bring back the weight restrictions of Demon's Souls.  We weren't allowed to haul around a dump truck full of gear, and had to choose our goodies with care.

     I agree. You could really only care around what you used, something like this would get rid of those quick-menu-switching arses, since they wont be able to carry around equip for EVERY situation like batman. As someone who has in the past, Menu-switching isn't even skillful and I get peeved when I see people praising it, it's just muscle memory of the controls, not genuine gameplay skill. And honestly, it's just silly for someone to be switching rings etc. in the middle of a riposte or backstab.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by GrinTwist on Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:19 pm

    If only there was a ring that increased damage taken when equipped.

    On a serious note; I think the difficulty, in general, in Dark Souls is fine. Sure we have a few unfair moments for the player but for the most part the difficulty isn't an issue. The punishments for making a mistake aren't unreasonable either.

    I myself just want a few harder bosses that are on par with Manus or the Four Kings and BP's in my world.


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    Re: Hardcore mode

    Post by Undiscovery on Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:58 pm

    GrinTwist wrote:If only there was a ring that increased damage taken when equipped.

     Haha, I know right? 

    The difficulty is artificial anyway. Ignorance produces difficulty in these games, second playthroughs are usually 1/3rd the time and difficulty of the first. So a hardcore mode to me would be redundant, in a game the almost forces death a one-death character would also be silly and goes against the mythology of the game.

    Surprise kills/traps are my only thing, they are hilariously frustrating and I'm not sure if there's not enough, too many, or not done well enough. For example not knowing a bridge would collapse under my feet if I don't sprint it, how the hell am I suppose to know that bridge would be any different than the last? You don't, which makes me love to hate it, every new step is a fresh one.

    ..Maybe traps should be randomly generated so they're never the same way for anyone anywhere.. Or perhaps that would just be evil. devil


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