Curb Farming

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    Curb Farming

    Post by Buggy Virus on Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:45 am

    Something I would really like to see is FROM curb the benefits of farming areas for souls.

    A simple system could be put in play where after you kill an enemy in an area, if you revive the enemy again by using the bonfire, but not by dieing or don't challenge the boss, the next time you kill said enemy the souls drop a certain amount. And the souls you receive from mobs you revive would drop somewhat every time you rested in the bonfire without attempting to complete the area.

    Could do something similar with invaders to curb ganking.

    Later post that better explains myself:
    steveswede wrote:
    Buggy Virus wrote:Something I would really like
    to see is FROM curb the benefits of farming areas for souls.

    A
    simple system could be put in play where after you kill an enemy in an
    area, if you revive the enemy again by using the bonfire, but not by
    dieing or don't challenge the boss, the next time you kill said enemy
    the souls drop a certain amount. And the souls you receive from mobs
    you revive would drop somewhat every time you rested in the bonfire
    without attempting to complete the area.

    Could do something similar with invaders to curb ganking.

    What's
    the point to this unnecessary system? Does anyone really think ganking
    can be curbed with it? You also punish players for "playing well"
    which is against the rewarding system the Souls series has. If you want
    to stop ganking, or at least reduce a lot of it, place multiple spawn
    points all over the place and program a system where dark spirits spawn a
    decent distance away from the host or phantoms.

    Multiple spawn points won't really affect ganking. It's annoying when
    players gank spawn points, but the larger problem is players who sit in
    an area with two phantoms. In the forest, gankers generally don't even
    bother with spawn points, just sitting near Alvina instead, and just
    rely on the fact that there are two of them.

    I don't think that killing phantoms should yield gradually reduced souls
    if you haven't clear the area or aren't attempting to, rather, if you
    have a phantom present the yield of souls from defeated phantoms will
    gradually reduce. And it will reduce even faster if you have two
    phantoms. This means if you have phantoms with you, you will still
    receive decent souls for maybe the first two invaders you defeat, but
    the focus will stay on trying to clear the area and kill the boss, not
    on ganking.

    And if you want to quickly acquire souls, you could kill a few invaders
    in one area with your phantom, clear it, then move to the next one,
    which would also increase the diversity of areas pvp is possible since
    players will move around more to host.

    And again, I would make it so that lone hosts suffer no penalty.

    Acarnatia wrote:That's a good idea for ganking. I hope they DON'T do that for regular enemies.

    If it was in place for normal enemies you would see more people
    co-oping, or trying to beat new areas, instead of just sitting in the
    forest.

    Slarg232 wrote:Why would we hate farming, anyway? I don't honestly
    see alot of people farm, unless it's NG+ and you're trying to get the
    last five or six levels.

    This wouldn't reduce farming, in the idea of doing things only to gain
    souls, but it would make players pursue different venues of farming.
    Instead of ganking, lone hosting would be more beneficial. Instead of
    doing a soul farming run that you have done a billion times, you need to
    co-op. Basically, it would encourage the more interesting parts of the
    game.

    DE5PA1R wrote:From has a history of purposefully putting in places
    where farming is easy. I doubt we'll see the end of farming, and I don't
    see the point of not including it.

    This wouldn't reduce farming, in the idea of doing things only to gain
    souls, but it would make players pursue different venues of farming.
    Instead of ganking, lone hosting would be more beneficial. Instead of
    doing a soul farming run that you have done a billion times, you need to
    co-op. Basically, it would encourage the more interesting parts of the
    game.




    Last edited by Buggy Virus on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Acarnatia on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:40 pm

    That's a good idea for ganking. I hope they DON'T do that for regular enemies.


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by steveswede on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:34 pm

    Buggy Virus wrote:Something I would really like to see is FROM curb the benefits of farming areas for souls.

    A simple system could be put in play where after you kill an enemy in an area, if you revive the enemy again by using the bonfire, but not by dieing or don't challenge the boss, the next time you kill said enemy the souls drop a certain amount. And the souls you receive from mobs you revive would drop somewhat every time you rested in the bonfire without attempting to complete the area.

    Could do something similar with invaders to curb ganking.

    What's the point to this unnecessary system? Does anyone really think ganking can be curbed with it? You also punish players for "playing well" which is against the rewarding system the Souls series has. If you want to stop ganking, or at least reduce a lot of it, place multiple spawn points all over the place and program a system where dark spirits spawn a decent distance away from the host or phantoms.
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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Slarg232 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:12 pm

    Why would we hate farming, anyway? I don't honestly see alot of people farm, unless it's NG+ and you're trying to get the last five or six levels.


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by DE5PA1R on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:18 pm

    From has a history of purposefully putting in places where farming is easy. I doubt we'll see the end of farming, and I don't see the point of not including it.


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Onion Knight on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:30 pm

    Farming for souls? That's what Co-op and PvP is for. Don't need to farm.

    They've massively reduced the need to farm upgrade materials, which was my only major complaint with Demon's Souls.

    Pure Bladestone. That is all.


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:18 pm

    Onion Knight wrote:Pure Bladestone. That is all.

    +1, brother.....+1
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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Onion Knight on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:22 pm

    Back Lot Basher wrote:
    Onion Knight wrote:Pure Bladestone. That is all.

    +1, brother.....+1



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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:06 pm

    steveswede wrote:
    Buggy Virus wrote:Something I would really like to see is FROM curb the benefits of farming areas for souls.

    A simple system could be put in play where after you kill an enemy in an area, if you revive the enemy again by using the bonfire, but not by dieing or don't challenge the boss, the next time you kill said enemy the souls drop a certain amount. And the souls you receive from mobs you revive would drop somewhat every time you rested in the bonfire without attempting to complete the area.

    Could do something similar with invaders to curb ganking.

    What's the point to this unnecessary system? Does anyone really think ganking can be curbed with it? You also punish players for "playing well" which is against the rewarding system the Souls series has. If you want to stop ganking, or at least reduce a lot of it, place multiple spawn points all over the place and program a system where dark spirits spawn a decent distance away from the host or phantoms.

    Multiple spawn points won't really affect ganking. It's annoying when players gank spawn points, but the larger problem is players who sit in an area with two phantoms. In the forest, gankers generally don't even bother with spawn points, just sitting near Alvina instead, and just rely on the fact that there are two of them.

    I don't think that killing phantoms should yield gradually reduced souls if you haven't clear the area or aren't attempting to, rather, if you have a phantom present the yield of souls from defeated phantoms will gradually reduce. And it will reduce even faster if you have two phantoms. This means if you have phantoms with you, you will still receive decent souls for maybe the first two invaders you defeat, but the focus will stay on trying to clear the area and kill the boss, not on ganking.

    And if you want to quickly acquire souls, you could kill a few invaders in one area with your phantom, clear it, then move to the next one, which would also increase the diversity of areas pvp is possible since players will move around more to host.

    And again, I would make it so that lone hosts suffer no penalty.

    Acarnatia wrote:That's a good idea for ganking. I hope they DON'T do that for regular enemies.

    If it was in place for normal enemies you would see more people co-oping, or trying to beat new areas, instead of just sitting in the forest.

    Slarg232 wrote:Why would we hate farming, anyway? I don't honestly
    see alot of people farm, unless it's NG+ and you're trying to get the
    last five or six levels.

    This wouldn't reduce farming, in the idea of doing things only to gain souls, but it would make players pursue different venues of farming. Instead of ganking, lone hosting would be more beneficial. Instead of doing a soul farming run that you have done a billion times, you need to co-op. Basically, it would encourage the more interesting parts of the game.

    DE5PA1R wrote:From has a history of purposefully putting in places
    where farming is easy. I doubt we'll see the end of farming, and I don't
    see the point of not including it.

    This wouldn't reduce farming, in the idea of doing things only to gain
    souls, but it would make players pursue different venues of farming.
    Instead of ganking, lone hosting would be more beneficial. Instead of
    doing a soul farming run that you have done a billion times, you need to
    co-op. Basically, it would encourage the more interesting parts of the
    game.


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by DE5PA1R on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:08 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:From has a history of purposefully putting in places
    where farming is easy. I doubt we'll see the end of farming, and I don't
    see the point of not including it.

    This wouldn't reduce farming, in the idea of doing things only to gain
    souls, but it would make players pursue different venues of farming.
    Instead of ganking, lone hosting would be more beneficial. Instead of
    doing a soul farming run that you have done a billion times, you need to
    co-op. Basically, it would encourage the more interesting parts of the
    game.

    Interesting is subjective.

    Also, offline players would be pretty alienated. From has a strong history of offline support - remember how Cov items were available offline?
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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:16 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:
    DE5PA1R wrote:From has a history of purposefully putting in places
    where farming is easy. I doubt we'll see the end of farming, and I don't
    see the point of not including it.

    This wouldn't reduce farming, in the idea of doing things only to gain
    souls, but it would make players pursue different venues of farming.
    Instead of ganking, lone hosting would be more beneficial. Instead of
    doing a soul farming run that you have done a billion times, you need to
    co-op. Basically, it would encourage the more interesting parts of the
    game.

    Interesting is subjective.

    Also, offline players would be pretty alienated. From has a strong history of offline support - remember how Cov items were available offline?

    I thought about that, and that would be the main problem with this.

    I don't generally see it as very sporting personally to level very high to defeat the PvE offline, as I think you can do it at any level, but that is my opinion, and this is a valid point.

    Perhaps supply random co-op options with AI partners for those playing offline. Like a randomly generated player with reasonable varying stats and equipment, who during such a session can be invaded by other AI beings of similar builds.

    It would be lackluster, but still better than having players doing soul farming runs. And the AI would need to be quite good.

    Although it would always make for a good laugh playing with AI co-opers when they do something really dumb.


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by steveswede on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:37 pm

    Buggy Virus wrote:Multiple spawn points won't really affect ganking. It's annoying when players gank spawn points, but the larger problem is players who sit in an area with two phantoms. In the forest, gankers generally don't even bother with spawn points, just sitting near Alvina instead, and just rely on the fact that there are two of them.

    Your argument here is one area, an area that is unique to others in that it has a covenant invasion associated with it (unless you count dark Anor Londo). If you don't like what happens here, don't invade there.

    You say multiple spawn points won't affect ganking, but areas like Kiln, Anor Londo, Oolacile township, Undead burg, area before centipede demon, the Depths, would greatly benefit if gankers have to keep looking around for you. Gives you time to prepare, or black crystal out.

    Buggy Virus wrote:I don't think that killing phantoms should yield gradually reduced souls if you haven't clear the area or aren't attempting to, rather, if you have a phantom present the yield of souls from defeated phantoms will gradually reduce. And it will reduce even faster if you have two phantoms. This means if you have phantoms with you, you will still receive decent souls for maybe the first two invaders you defeat, but the focus will stay on trying to clear the area and kill the boss, not on ganking.

    And if you want to quickly acquire souls, you could kill a few invaders in one area with your phantom, clear it, then move to the next one, which would also increase the diversity of areas pvp is possible since players will move around more to host.

    And again, I would make it so that lone hosts suffer no penalty.

    So now you're saying on top of what you said before that farming normal enemies should reduce every time you revive them, apart from when you die or complete the boss (silly idea because people would just suicide and collect their bloodstain instead of going back to a bonfire), but with dark spirits you receive the same souls every time apart from when you have a phantom/phantoms present which would reduce with every invader. Good luck trying to implement that pointless convoluted system.
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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:52 pm

    steveswede wrote:
    Buggy Virus wrote:Multiple spawn points won't really affect ganking. It's annoying when players gank spawn points, but the larger problem is players who sit in an area with two phantoms. In the forest, gankers generally don't even bother with spawn points, just sitting near Alvina instead, and just rely on the fact that there are two of them.

    Your argument here is one area, an area that is unique to others in that it has a covenant invasion associated with it (unless you count dark Anor Londo). If you don't like what happens here, don't invade there.

    You say multiple spawn points won't affect ganking, but areas like Kiln, Anor Londo, Oolacile township, Undead burg, area before centipede demon, the Depths, would greatly benefit if gankers have to keep looking around for you. Gives you time to prepare, or black crystal out.

    I agree spawn point ganking is a problem in plenty of areas, and it should be fixed by adding more spawn points, or adding random spawn points, or causing players to spawn a certain distance from host/phantoms. However, I find the larger problem with ganking in general is players who will sit in an area with a phantom or two, never attempt to complete the area, and just frustrate invaders who constantly find themselves up against a force that never leaves.

    So changing spawn points is an imperative good idea, but I think other measure can be made aswell to make ganking less attractive, and encourage jolly co-operation.

    Buggy Virus wrote:I don't think that killing phantoms should yield gradually reduced souls if you haven't clear the area or aren't attempting to, rather, if you have a phantom present the yield of souls from defeated phantoms will gradually reduce. And it will reduce even faster if you have two phantoms. This means if you have phantoms with you, you will still receive decent souls for maybe the first two invaders you defeat, but the focus will stay on trying to clear the area and kill the boss, not on ganking.

    And if you want to quickly acquire souls, you could kill a few invaders in one area with your phantom, clear it, then move to the next one, which would also increase the diversity of areas pvp is possible since players will move around more to host.

    And again, I would make it so that lone hosts suffer no penalty.

    So now you're saying on top of what you said before that farming normal enemies should reduce every time you revive them, apart from when you die or complete the boss (silly idea because people would just suicide and collect their bloodstain instead of going back to a bonfire), but with dark spirits you receive the same souls every time apart from when you have a phantom/phantoms present which would reduce with every invader. Good luck trying to implement that pointless convoluted system.

    I thought about the suicide fact, and I couldn't think of anything to counter it, but I would say something that encourages co-op over farming, even if not perfect, is better than nothing.

    And yes, I believe that players shouldn't host co-op players merely to fight 2v1 duels in which they have the upper hand.
    Invaders shouldn't have a penalty as invading is their perogative, and it tends to be a 1v1 fight. Although the invader has the world to aid him, the host has healing, and the chance to summon a co-op partner to aid him.

    This would encourage players who are co-oping to do so to beat the area, not consistently push invaders into unfair fights. Reasonable souls would still be rewarded for the first two-three invaders, but it would begin to dwindle and push players to actually finish the area. And if you take too long in an area co-oping, and continued to be invaded, you would find that there would not be as great a reward, which would add tension to finish areas quickly when co-oping.

    It's convoluted yes, but I wouldn't say pointless.


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Animaaal on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:17 pm

    This is definetly one of the better ideas I've heard to curb farming. Pushing players to ng+ or even ng+++ is a great idea.

    If going through multiple playthroughs was really the only way (without spending countless hours of farming) to get to say sl 120, it would increase the amount of summon signs available and decrease the wait time for being summoned at just about every soul level. It would also increase the amount of "phantom helper" builds at higher soul levels. Having a helper build past soul level 60, doesn't see near as much action compared to a lower soul level build.

    Granted sl 120 continues to be the prefered meta soul level.

    Seeing summon signs in a consistent fashion at soul level 60 in the parish for example, would be a good thing regardless of how you look at it.
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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by steveswede on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:13 pm

    @Buggy Virus

    Invading comes at the risk of being ganked, otherwise there would be no system to summon people to help. You want to cripple this system so you can honor duel when you should just use the dragon covenant if you want honor 1v1 PvP. Join the dragon covenant, put your sign down in areas like the forest, Oolacile township and just wait to be summoned. Problem solved.
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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:35 pm

    steveswede wrote:@Buggy Virus

    Invading comes at the risk of being ganked, otherwise there would be no system to summon people to help. You want to cripple this system so you can honor duel when you should just use the dragon covenant if you want honor 1v1 PvP. Join the dragon covenant, put your sign down in areas like the forest, Oolacile township and just wait to be summoned. Problem solved.

    Well invading comes at the risk of invading a team co-oping, and that's reasonable. I think invading should be for invading, hunting players that are trying to complete areas while using the benefits of humanity.

    I think dueling should be supplemented with something like the battle of stoicism, but much better, and much more comprehensive.


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    Re: Curb Farming

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:41 pm

    I want invading to be for invasions, and people actively seeking to just fight other players with no other goals or distractions to be its own insular thing.


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