Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

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    Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by gateslol7 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:17 am

    Hey guys,

    I've noticed a trend in the opinions on STR builds.

    They are viable of course, but real talk... they get outperformed by DEX builds, because the STR weapons are so damn heavy!

    Why not let STR add to equip burden? Maybe 0.25 per point. With 40 STR that's 10 extra equip weight, which would make up for the weight difference in most weapons but not be overpowered or a reason to pump STR. You could still use a lighter weapon and enjoy the slight bonus, or use the "STR weapons" and not get screwed on weight.

    Nobody is going to pump STR for the equip bonus, it would merely be a way for heavy STR users to use their weapons without having to gimp on armor/offhands/secondary weapons.

    STR weapons are -already- a trade-off without even taking weight into account: power instead of speed. You swing slow, and get punished easily, but you can stagger better, and have more range. I think it's unnecessary to have the STR weapons ALSO be prohibitively heavy.

    Good idea? Bad idea?
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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:22 am

    Depends on if you want str users to be able to flip around.

    Oh wait, they already do that. *shrug*

    I personally believe str builds should be heavy armor, heavy weapon, heavy damage. But the speed of these weapons should be a liiittle bit faster, IMO.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by russiannightmare on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:26 am

    Strength weapons can be at a disadvantage but I find that when I come up against people using DEX weapons against my greatsword they'll roll in for a quick strike then roll away again so its just about timing your swing to land when they come out of their roll and if your lucky and they are under the 53 poise break you'll stunlock them. Now about the STR adding to equip burden I've thought about it too but the endurance stat works just fine and the bonus of STR weapons having better stunlock is the trade off for a slower swing speed.
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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DamageCK on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:47 am

    Stunlock is the only bonus they need. If you're having a wieght issue, modify your build. Move some gear around, consider lighter shields. I love the Heater, and at two pounds and 100% phy damage resistance, you're not really losing out on much.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by Reaperfan on Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:50 am

    Not equip burden, but weapon swing speed. We have plently of Str builds who are able to flip around like monkeys, the biggest problem with them is that they are so easy to counter with backstabs due to their slow attacks. So if Str upped the speed with which you swing weapons I feel it would make them more viable. And as an extra precaution, this would only be going off of base strength, not 2-handing. So having 20 strength while 2-handing would still only give you a swing speed bonus equal to 20 strength, not 35. This would provide incentive to push strength to higher levels and not just "the base reequirement to 2-hand the weapon."


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DamageCK on Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:40 am

    That would make stunlocking SOOOO easy. Hell, it's not that difficult as it is. I can appreciate the idea of giving some bonus to high a strength stat, but I think we're headed in the wrong direction. I don't think things like equip burden or swing speed need to be tweaked at all. They're strength weapons, theyre supposed to be slow and heavy. It's also why they hit hard and stunlock.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:52 am

    I'd like to see DWGR changed so that you have to have 25% burden instead of 50%. That way, at least at the lower SL's, 80 or 120 range that most play pvp at now, your poise is low enought to be stunlocked and have less defense via armor if you want to be below 25 and flip.

    Also like to see backstabs only give critical hit damage if used with daggers, would reduce some one hit kills etc. Buuuut this is all sorta off topic and I'm just voicing my opinion, think it would make pvp better. happy at least for me lol

    Also think rock music should play when you invade people, and creepy violins and piano when you get invaded. But, ya know.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by Reaperfan on Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:58 am

    DamageCK wrote:That would make stunlocking SOOOO easy. Hell, it's not that difficult as it is. I can appreciate the idea of giving some bonus to high a strength stat, but I think we're headed in the wrong direction. I don't think things like equip burden or swing speed need to be tweaked at all. They're strength weapons, theyre supposed to be slow and heavy. It's also why they hit hard and stunlock.

    I'm not saying they should be as fast as katanas or anything lol, they'd still be the slowest weapons. Besides, maybe it's just me, but the only Strength weapon I remember getting stunlocked with was a Zweihander, and even then it was only for 1 extra hit. I've always seemed to be able to escape Great Hammer and Greataxes fairly easily after the first hit :|


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by russiannightmare on Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:08 am

    DamageCK wrote:That would make stunlocking SOOOO easy. Hell, it's not that difficult as it is. I can appreciate the idea of giving some bonus to high a strength stat, but I think we're headed in the wrong direction. I don't think things like equip burden or swing speed need to be tweaked at all. They're strength weapons, theyre supposed to be slow and heavy. It's also why they hit hard and stunlock.

    I too used to think the swing speeds needed tweeked for the greatswords and especially the ultragreatswords but that would render the Dex swords useless if a claymore or even scarier yet a zweihander:affraid: could swing as fast as a katana.



    Oh how many people would use them, it'd become Giants/havels armor, flip ring, hornet ring, and giant sword for every build ever to be competitive. Oh to the variety of builds that would eliminate:(
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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DamageCK on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:05 am

    Making DWGR only work for builds at or under 25% burden is going too far, if you ask me. I understand why people don't like it, and I'm fine with that. What I've got an issue with is having essentially useless stuff in the game. Definitely make the equip burden max lower, but why the same weight as fastroll? So you equip the ring for another kind of fastroll? That doesn't make any sense.

    And yeah, it gets a handful of additional i-frames and you roll a little further, but taking up a ring slot makes the difference damn near negligible. We don't need more items like the Tiny Being's ring. It needs to be nerfed, if anything, not made useless.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:09 am

    DamageCK wrote:Making DWGR only work for builds at or under 25% burden is going too far, if you ask me. I understand why people don't like it, and I'm fine with that. What I've got an issue with is having essentially useless stuff in the game. Definitely make the equip burden max lower, but why the same weight as fastroll? So you equip the ring for another kind of fastroll? That doesn't make any sense.

    And yeah, it gets a handful of additional i-frames and you roll a little further, but taking up a ring slot makes the difference damn near negligible. We don't need more items like the Tiny Being's ring. It needs to be nerfed, if anything, not made useless.

    Well make it 35% or 40 or something. Just an idea, doesnt mean its not adjustable, just think a change is def needed. At least to make things better for me happy


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:12 am

    Guys this isnt a discussion about the DWGR. Its about str weapons and the str skill.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DamageCK on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:16 am

    I was also thinking somewhere in the thirties. Thing is, no matter where you set it, people are going to find some way to stack poise and stay under weight. We'd just be changing the way they do it. Probably just see MoF replacing MoM everywhere.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DamageCK on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:17 am

    But, Dough, it's always about the DWGR. Haha.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:20 am

    Thats the problem lol, every thread turns into a discussion about it! :x


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:21 am

    DamageCK wrote:I was also thinking somewhere in the thirties. Thing is, no matter where you set it, people are going to find some way to stack poise and stay under weight. We'd just be changing the way they do it. Probably just see MoF replacing MoM everywhere.

    Your prob right lol. No worries officer Dough happy , we are done with the dwgr talk


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DoughGuy on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:36 am

    Mission Accomplished. If anyone needs me Ill be out fighting crime.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DamageCK on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:39 am

    Billy clubbin' various degenerates.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:51 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Mission Accomplished. If anyone needs me Ill be out fighting crime.

    lol, world can always use more crime fighers happy

    So back on topic, I def dont like the idea of speeding up swing speed with Str. and I use the zwei ALOT. It would make pvp more unbalanced, bunch of super fast zweis.... would be funny to see, but thats about it


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DamageCK on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:54 am

    Yeah, it'd be like the weapon swap glitch that makes GS's and UGS's swing like short swords. I can't handle that. Haha.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by Reaperfan on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:02 am

    Maybe you all are over-visualizing how much it would improve swing speeds. In my head, it'd only be by a few frames, no faster than a third to a quarter of a second improvement from no increase to most increase. Or heck, just make it reduce the cooldown animations after an attack instead of the starting animations. If you all are scared of Zweis being swung with the speed of a Longsword I don't think that's what anybody who advocates this idea had in mind, because of course that would be stupidly broken! All I'm imagining is just enough swing speed to, with a large enough stat investment, either hit twice with a Great Hammer before they are able to roll away or not be as ridiculously punishable by backstabs.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by WyrmHero on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:33 pm

    Str builds are a pain in the @$$ to make, specially hybrids. I'm trying to make one right now and because of the ridiculous weight of the DGM I have to spend +50 points on endurance, and can't even have enough poise. Fap ring Vit bonus is just too good to pass up, and having to rely on Havel's Ring makes Str build even less powerful with low Vit. Dex get all the perks, high poise, fap ring, high HP, and they are easy to make hybrids. Not fair.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by DamageCK on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:23 pm

    That has waaay more to do with the DGM weighing eighteen pounds. You could easily make a str/fai hybrid with a Clay or MSGS that hits all the points you're looking for.


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    Re: Do you think STR should increase equip burden?

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:53 pm

    What is strength affected poise? Either in place of armor, or nerf armor poise and add poise for strength


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