Extinguish the bonfires. No bonfire run

Also if your quest it to f with the world then flirting with covenants is no biggie, hence the shortcuts.

I want to clarify for any no bonfire runners what I am doing here. This way we wont waste time.
This could all be total BS. Or there could be some elements of truth. Or it could be truth. I dont know. Thats why I am doing this run.

Here is the basic idea that I have:
From has allowed the user to choose the fate of Lordran, if he so chooses. The user is the one that will decide who has the power, due to his actions. Power is derived from the bonfires.
At one time, for instance, the eternal dragons has all the power. This was very long ago, this is why that dragon is at the very base of the game (dimensional), and why he is so weak. They were challenged, and a portion of that large power was divvied out to each of the challengers. Gwynn, being the strongest of the remaining, wants to USE me and the serpents, to link all the fires to her. Thus, making her the MOST powerful. The Qualaag sisters, for instance, had a portion of power hidden behind the hidden wall. The remaining portion of the E. dragons, have a tiny bit way down in ash lake (BEHIND A HIDDEN WALL). This is because they are trying to keep their portion of power. After killing one sister, the other is left with her bonfire exposed (so I can do what I want with it). As the user, I get to decide WHOM I want to control the fate of Lordran. Two of these fates has been discovered (two endings). Anyone can guess as to how many endings there actually are.

Personally, my favorite option, is to unlink all the fires and kill anyone who is greedy, anyone that they wants power at all. This will bring about real death. The dawn of man could be two things: Either it is when I take all the power and make myself a god. Or when I extinguish all the fire making all things equal. The former has problems (where would I put my gigantic fire? I dont have a spot!). Thats why I decided to destroy all fire-keepers. Leaving us with the E.DRAGON PROBLEM and the PYGMY PROBLEM. In my eyes, this is the SAME PROBLEM. If we find the other portion of fire that we are over-looking, the portion taken by the "easily forgotten pygmy", then we will solve all the problems. He is why that extra torch in front of the kiln is present. This pygmy is what I believe Rhea or Aramis to be somehow associated with (but that is pure speculation). Perhaps some hidden boss in dukes archives, or associated with SEATH and his crystal.

Rules.

1) I am ALLOWED to sit at bonfires that are previously lit. I am NEVER ALLOWED to light a bonfire. This is because I consider any keeper of a bonfire to be a keeper of the purgatory.

This makes sense on so many levels. To give one example: Its why they call them fire-keepers. Another: Its why the fire keeper is so ashamed at firelink shrine (If I was to bring here back). There are just way too many reasons that this makes sense to outright list them (so I will spare you and let you consider it on your own.)

2) I DO NOT Kindle.

3) I do not sin, I do not change covenants.

4) I decided NOT to try and save NPCs from going hollow. It is simply to hard to chase them around and try to save them. I will be trying to do this type of technique in NG+ (if I can make it).

I WILL MAKE ALL DECISIONS BASED ON THE IDEA THAT I HATE PURGATORY.
I think SOME of the characters actually like the power struggle. And in the future, SOME USERS will like it also. Thus they will try to invade and destroy my ability to extinguish the flame. Some would prefer the power to be in certain hands. Consider Petrus (miracle guy), he kills Rhea based on his fear that she is trying to change the balance of power.

So far:
I have found that the game is most def. agreeing with me. I can easily level up at fire-link. Everything the characters say seems to agree with my theory. I continually make progress by linking back to fire link (instead of lighting bonfires). This made me incredibly rich with humanity. I DO NOT SUGGEST LOSING YOUR SOULS AND HUMANITY. NEVER DIE. If you die, run back and get that stuff. If you are close to dying, start heading back to put your bloodsign closer. After losing my fire at Firelink (becuase I collected the fire-keeper souls), I knew that in order to become human again. In order to level up. I needed to get to Qualaags or Edragons fire. No problem, beat the first sister, killed Eingy, sat down at my new home. I DID NOT RING THE SECOND BELL. From there I ran out through the alternate route through blighttown. The one with the big wheel that brings you up to VAlley of Drakes. From there, you are at firelink without any enemies. I went from firelink, then all the way down into the catacombs and received the Rite of Kindling. Im sitting there thinking, wow, that was almost too easy.

So that is where I am at.

1) Gwyn is male
2) The 2 sisters you see (one of which, quelaag you kill) are 2 of 7.
3) Gwyn the witch and Nito found their power before they fough tthe dragons.
4) The pygmy was the dark lord. You become the dark lord by doing the dark ending.

@Fireless I'm not following your version of the lore. BTW haven't you finished NG+ yet? It's been a while, wait have you even finished NG?

TIPS: USEfull tips for those who are thinking about this.

1. SUMMON AND BE SUMMONED. Fighting as a phantom is a much safer way to level up, why fight in your world when you can fight in theirs? You need to choose wisely about when to be in another's world and how to handle it when you are. This is why:
-If you are to kill the boss in someone elses game then you are rewarded with FULL ESTUS (crucial), FULL HEALTH, (very nice), +1 HUMANITY, FULL MIRACLES (CRUCIAL).
-If you let the owner of that world die. YOU RETURN TO WHERE YOU WERE STANDING WITH NO rewards. (not so bad).
-If you die in someone elses world, you go back to the last bonfire you rested at, no rewards, but you still retain all of your humanity and souls. (FOR ME, this means a free trip home when I am really far away, but also can be annoying when I am two feet from a boss door and just want to refill my flasks before I go in).

Keep your level down. Only level your guy AFTER you level your equipment. This helps keep you in range.
Just the fact these are the summoning rules makes me think a no bonfire run is correct. It all adds up so nicely.

2) Know when to use your rings
The ring of the evil eye or whatever, it will become your best friend. As you make it far far from home, and you start getting scared, just use the easy lounging hollows to refill your health. The ring makes it so freaking easy I! I tell you! Just remember that you need to switch it off sometimes, like on poor footing, or before a boss. If you have way too much stuff and you find yourself scared in some dark corner - put on the ring of sacrifice. Although, this could cause problems for when you truly need a ring like that.

3) Know the boards You HAVE to take the shortcuts the game offers. So dont even try unless you have left your bloodstain on every inch of the board at least once. This also means that you simply do not lose your bloodstain. Simply too devastating.

4) Harvest the easy souls, when you are nearby. The dudes on the bridge with the dragon. The guys in the forest. Harvest every easy soul. The creators knew those characters could go off there, and we have to capitalize on every soul they gave as a hand-out.

5) Have an idea of what build you want ahead of time, and what clan you are going to join. (obvious).

More tips to come as they become apparent.

DoughGuy wrote:1) Gwyn is male
2) The 2 sisters you see (one of which, quelaag you kill) are 2 of 7.
3) Gwyn the witch and Nito found their power before they fough tthe dragons.
4) The pygmy was the dark lord. You become the dark lord by doing the dark ending.

1) What kind of male has the name GWYN? Thats okay.
2) They are just REPRESENTATIVES. There is more than one E.dragon also? Im only concerned with the 2 we do see. They represent all 7.
3) They had the power of the lords, yes. They had "power" but not of the type I am talking about. I am talking about bonfire power.
4) So then this dark lord split his fire up and blah blah blah. Thats a fine story. It doesnt seem easily forgotten though. He would be MOST remembered considering he gave us the power to do what we are doing. Still, the dark lord ending is a result after leaving the E. Dragon fire lit. The only thing you really did is keep Gwyn from linking all the fires for HIMself. I dont believe that someone can be a true god without isolating all the fire to himself. If you are a dark lord, then why the heck would you be put right back into your cage? Something is fishy with that ending.

I may be wrong about the specifics of the lore, but I know there is something to extinguishing the fires. It just adds up.
Pygmy, Rhea, Pendant, Edragon.. It just swirls round and round with riddles.

Dark Souls PRO wrote:@Fireless I'm not following your version of the lore. BTW haven't you finished NG+ yet? It's been a while, wait have you even finished NG?

Yup. With a few different builds. Im not saying Im a dark soul master at all. I make mistakes all the time. Im just swimming in Lore and lies and confusion, just like everyone else. I just started doing this, and I recognized that it WORKS, so I joined to share this experience and discuss what is really going on here. Seems like everyone else is giving up on the meaning behind the pendant.
That being said,
I am great at PvE.
PvP never interested me much, so those guys can wreck my PvE builds. They present the only real challenge to me as I make this run.

I suggest trying it. I know some of you are better than me, and I dont have all the time in the world to explore it on my own. Try it and tell me it doesnt make sense. To me, at this moment, extinguishing the bonfires is the only thing that makes sense of all this. I will hold it to be truth for now. It could def be that they created a game here with 2 sides, and with any theory that has 2 opposing sides, someone could swim around in the lore forever (thus becoming a dark soul). Heaven and hell, alpha and omega, light and darkness, it could all lead to an eternity of questions. So maybe they made a game that is just weird. Wouldnt be the first game like that to be created. If that IS the case, then I beat it both ways and I will just have to move on.

I dont want to move on!
I choose to believe that From new exactly what they were doing, and new exactly what easter-egg they had planned.

If you dont want to entertain the idea that there is a way to extinguishing the Edragon flame, then I suggest playing skyrim.

I've already done a no bonfire run and a full kindle run, yet I never tried either all the way up to NG+7 might give it a go tomorrow or the day after. Right now it's 11pm and I have to catch up on my foreign language studies.

fireLESS wrote:With the Strength of Lords, they challenged the dragons.

To me this means that in order to "challenge" the dragons I need the strength of all these lords. I need to seek them ALL out. Including this pygmy. The previous attempts to extinguish the fires by killing the Edragon did not find this Pygmy the way I see him being found.. hopefully soon.

Probably obvious, but has anyone tried to kill the eternal dragon while holding all the bequeathed lord soul shards? Sort of a divergent path -- instead of opening up the way to Gwyn, you instead go after the last dragon?

@DSPRO

Awesome. Finally someone who has most def. officially done it. I am curious about many things. Sounds like you are racing through these runs. I am certainly not that good. Nowhere near good enough to run through huge swaths of guys for a race run. That could be a very interesting approach also.

1) Did you feel like the game played better while doing the run? Like it just makes more sense?
2) ANY changes in behavior of ANY characters?
3) Builds you used?
4) Covenants you joined? Sins?
5) Did you make attempts at the dragon or just beat it?

So many more questions.

Be careful with your hw. I just did poorly on an exam. My soul, its -oh so dark-.

[quote="befowler"]

fireLESS wrote:With the Strength of Lords, they challenged the dragons.
Probably obvious, but has anyone tried to kill the eternal dragon while holding all the bequeathed lord soul shards? Sort of a divergent path -- instead of opening up the way to Gwyn, you instead go after the last dragon?

EXACTLY! So that is the main discussion here. I have heard a ton of heresay about a group that has done it. No results. I think they were on the right track though. Every investigation I do into previous attempts leaves me with way too many questions to be Kosher. I want an easter-egg because, I am a hardcore freakin nerd. Its brewin deep in my dark soul.
I feel it in my blood stains.
I want to know what went down with that journey. Covenants/bonfires/etc. did the summoner do the no bonnie run? did they save any hollows? what went down.

At any rate, let me update you on what happened in my game.
I get hit ONE TIME, by some skeleton with a sword. Some easy - no big deal guy- Im in that skeleton filled place where they like to be on wheels (but I had already killed all the wheels), over by the blacksmith. So this guy hits me one freakin time, the game glitches, I go deep into the ground. Everything turns gray and I am falling endlessly out of the world into this gray cloud. My character is just spinning. HAHAHAH

What the heck. I had a TON of humanity and souls. Such a pity. When that kind of thing happens I yell out "MIZAYAKIDIFADOOOOO" cuz I cant pronounce his name but, geez. On my recovery run now.

Nothing different happens to be honest, all characters I've done this with had the pendant as the starting gift btw.
As for builds I just pump souls into any stat I need at that moment because unlike PvP in PvE you can go as high as you want because you're not planning on fighting others.
I did 2 full kindle runs 1. No covenant. 2. Sunbros +3. No change.
Dragon I never payed much attention to him other than to cut his tail.
But something odd happened, I don't remember how long ago or which character this was on. But I was speed rushing as per usual and Frampt was in my way, normally if you attack him he's exactly like the Eternal Dragon and doesn't die but while attacking him I managed to remove half his health bar before he retreated into the hole saying I couldn't be the chosen one blah blah.
That's all for now. And I hope you're playing through the game the devs way and talking to the correct NPC's after certain event's and what not.

[quote="fireLESS"]

befowler wrote:

fireLESS wrote:With the Strength of Lords, they challenged the dragons.
Probably obvious, but has anyone tried to kill the eternal dragon while holding all the bequeathed lord soul shards? Sort of a divergent path -- instead of opening up the way to Gwyn, you instead go after the last dragon?

EXACTLY! So that is the main discussion here. I have heard a ton of heresay about a group that has done it. No results. I think they were on the right track though. Every investigation I do into previous attempts leaves me with way too many questions to be Kosher. I want an easter-egg because, I am a hardcore freakin nerd. Its brewin deep in my dark soul.
I feel it in my blood stains.
I want to know what went down with that journey. Covenants/bonfires/etc. did the summoner do the no bonnie run? did they save any hollows? what went down.

At any rate, let me update you on what happened in my game.
I get hit ONE TIME, by some skeleton with a sword. Some easy - no big deal guy- Im in that skeleton filled place where they like to be on wheels (but I had already killed all the wheels), over by the blacksmith. So this guy hits me one freakin time, the game glitches, I go deep into the ground. Everything turns gray and I am falling endlessly out of the world into this gray cloud. My character is just spinning. HAHAHAH

What the heck. I had a TON of humanity and souls. Such a pity. When that kind of thing happens I yell out "MIZAYAKIDIFADOOOOO" cuz I cant pronounce his name but, geez. On my recovery run now.

Before I head off for tonight here is something you could try in NG+.
If you have all the lord souls on you (like you theorise) and if you have the sunlight spear from the sun cove by giving Gwyns soul, why not try attacking the Dragon then? Because apparently Gwyns bolts pierced the scales of the Dragons. Good Night.

Dark Souls PRO wrote:Nothing different happens to be honest, all characters I've done this with had the pendant as the starting gift btw.
As for builds I just pump souls into any stat I need at that moment because unlike PvP in PvE you can go as high as you want because you're not planning on fighting others.
I did 2 full kindle runs 1. No covenant. 2. Sunbros +3. No change.
Dragon I never payed much attention to him other than to cut his tail.
But something odd happened, I don't remember how long ago or which character this was on. But I was speed rushing as per usual and Frampt was in my way, normally if you attack him he's exactly like the Eternal Dragon and doesn't die but while attacking him I managed to remove half his health bar before he retreated into the hole saying I couldn't be the chosen one blah blah.
That's all for now. And I hope you're playing through the game the devs way and talking to the correct NPC's after certain event's and what not.

Good information here. Curious and curiouser. This is why we need more people doing runs like this. Cooping in the game AND out of the game.

Im not sure I have a good enough understanding of the triggering mechanisms to play exactly correct NPC storylines. I dont have time to resort to the wiki like its a bible. I just go on hunches, and mostly always have until I started seeing a pattern.

Again, I am going on the hunch that the "keep all NPCs alive" theory is out of reach (for the first run through anyway.) Has anyone ever kept ANY of the NPCs from going their normal routes? I could have saved Laurentious the firedude by saying no, i guess.

Im sorry to everyone that I do not have a perfect understanding of all the NPC/covenant nuances. I just feel like a reasonable person, and extinguishing (opposed to linking), seems all too reasonable to be a cooincidence. I also see a power struggle with the NPCs and their associated obsessions. I am making a leap of faith to assume that they are obsessed because their obsession strikes to the heart of the power struggle (the lore). YES, It mirrors my obsession with extinguishing the flames and putting out the E.dragon fire. Im not giving up.

Thats why in order to do this it will take more than just me. One dude trying it, wont produce much. Im okay with someone else finding something. We need jolly co-op here.

So I go back to get get my bloodstain once more. Took no risks and, Because I had gone down once before, the game provided by giving me all the shortcuts I had once opened. Twice as easy on the third trip into the catacombs. Those shortcuts are everywhere. This just makes sense.

DoughGuy wrote:The stone dragons immortality is purely scaled based. Seath is the only dragon who needs the crystal.

Ah, thank you. I am not convinced that you need to figure out a way to kill it since Kingseeker Frampt and Darkstalker Kaathe seem to be related to the dragons somehow, and can't be killed, either.

I'm only on NG++, though and am busy studying so I won't be able to check out the NG+++++++ things until later.

Rynn wrote:It was just very minor. He said his thankyou for freeing
me dialog like normal, but it was punctuated with the word again, and he
didn't show up in Firelink for a while.

EDIT: Let's see... I had no drake on the bridge in undead burg
No NPC summon signs ever showed up
and Velka wasn't in the belltower until I had gone all the way through sens fortress.

Weird stuff... I always thought of them as just bugs.

Again, eh? yeah that does seem weird. The others do seem like glitches.

I really really want there to be a third ending. I want something MOAR, but the game has been out for, what, 10-11 months? As many people that play this game, and as many people who are drawn to the lore and try really random things, I would think someone would have figured out something by now.

Please keep trying though, because I don't have the time, patience, or skill to complete something that may take 7 play throughs.

Main objective:
Throwing a gwyn soul enhanced spear at the E dragon with all other bonfires extinguished. Then taking the darksign.. lol. Finally sweet death.

Seems a bit futile. Again, Id like to entertain the idea that we could extinguish his flame via another route. Like the crystal was with Seath. OR by discovering the meaning of the pendant. OR by just figuring out what the heck these NPCs are up to. Regardless, I am still holding to the idea that extinguishing bonfires produces an easter-egg.

Ran over to Ingward. I wanted to see whether he liked my work with not lighting bonfires so far. Thought maybe he would break the seal, for FREE! Nope. He is same old Ingward. I dont think killing him is worth it at the moment.
I think its about time to open up sens fortress. I was holding back the onion npc from doing whatever it is he is doing. Might as well open up that area of the board.

At this point there is still no evidence to my favor, other then that the game really doesnt play any harder regardless of the long distances. Just adds a wee bit of time. If you are good enough to get all the way in one run normally, you should be good enough to do it without any fires. Seems like closer bonfires provide absolutely no help to begin with because of all the shortcuts available. I dont think I will be playing with bonfires anymore. Even if I change builds after NG+7..

Since Dark Souls PRO brought it up and it seems to fit the conversation......

I've tried really hard to kill Frampt. You can get multiple attempts at him (infinite really) since he's such a lecture pants. I did maxed damage attempts in NG++ and couldn't kill him. RTSR, PW, Lemon Buffed Great Scythe hitting two handed and did A LOT of damage but no kill. You need to take off while he's talking and break the conversation before it ends and he will stick around. He won't leave until he's had his say. Which is unlike other invincible creatures (the crow and Alvina specifically) who do their thing regardless of your actions.

skarekrow13 wrote:Since Dark Souls PRO brought it up and it seems to fit the conversation......

I've tried really hard to kill Frampt. You can get multiple attempts at him (infinite really) since he's such a lecture pants. I did maxed damage attempts in NG++ and couldn't kill him. RTSR, PW, Lemon Buffed Great Scythe hitting two handed and did A LOT of damage but no kill. You need to take off while he's talking and break the conversation before it ends and he will stick around. He won't leave until he's had his say. Which is unlike other invincible creatures (the crow and Alvina specifically) who do their thing regardless of your actions.

Yeah, I've depleted Alvinas hp completely and she just keeps on keeping on, =P.

@fireLESS Are you recording this run? I would love to take a peek and add it to my video thread!

Interesting thing with Alvina, similar to Frampt.....if you hit her the "talk" option is still there. I actually depleted her entire life bar my last try and THEN talked to her. She sat back down and said what a great addition I would make to the forest hunters then vanished forever. Sorry if it seems like I'm derailing but there might be something of value in talking about the unkillables.

Getting back to bonfires and ideas I've seen here......it was briefly mentioned about going down to get the Rite of Kindling before Rhea went to get it. There could be something to that if we assume fire = bad. If we shouldn't kindle fires then perhaps we should try to prevent Rhea from doing the same. Alternatively, what if there is a secret way to get past Pinwheel to completely forsake the very thought of kindling fires?

I think you can get around having to use the bonfires after the Lord bosses to warp by using PW to kill yourself. Or Dung Pies to toxic yourself. You can level at the Lordvessel if you don't count it as a bonfire too.

skarekrow13 wrote:Alternatively, what if there is a secret way to get past Pinwheel to completely forsake the very thought of kindling fires?

Vageta did this, from the gravelord altar, but it's done with glitching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RB7RAOi55M&feature=player_detailpage#t=422s

skarekrow13 wrote:Interesting thing with Alvina, similar to Frampt.....if you hit her the "talk" option is still there. I actually depleted her entire life bar my last try and THEN talked to her. She sat back down and said what a great addition I would make to the forest hunters then vanished forever. Sorry if it seems like I'm derailing but there might be something of value in talking about the unkillables.

Getting back to bonfires and ideas I've seen here......it was briefly mentioned about going down to get the Rite of Kindling before Rhea went to get it. There could be something to that if we assume fire = bad. If we shouldn't kindle fires then perhaps we should try to prevent Rhea from doing the same. Alternatively, what if there is a secret way to get past Pinwheel to completely forsake the very thought of kindling fires?

This is exactly the story that prompted me to explore my idea. I think Lautrec is trying to the opposite of Rhea. Perhaps he is killing firekeepers to monopolize the power in his favor? Extinguishing flames and killing firekeepers? Suspicious.

@MUDO
Im not filming cuz Im not sure if this is all fantasy yet.. I wont keep it a secret dont worry. Ill have to check out that video thread..

Now that I think about it. Perhaps the forest hunters (neutral) is a wiser approach to take than SUN.
Unfortunately, I never liked Alvina. She once told me I was foolish. Fairly certain the game would reveal the Easter-egg regardless of covenants.

Some characters don't die. It sounds to me that it is happening in the exact same way the the E. Dragon wont die. Bar goes to zero but nothing happens. Is it exactly like that? I remember trying to kill frampt on my first game ever , I got so scared of him that I fire bombed him until he left. He never returned. Alvina leaves also? From what I understand the E dragon just sits there and everlastS. So annoying.
Other than that they if they appear to -live- in relatively the same fashion, which it sounds like they do, than it is most likely a normal thing and therefore killing the E. Dragon may not be as simple as throwing a spear at him.

Right now it looks like the most likely scenario is associated with Rhea/ unknown NPC rationale.

If Mizayakimoyukomo programmed these characters to go on weird expeditions, and have countless triggering events which sent them off to different parts of the board. He would not even be able to program with such randomness! He MUST have some reason for Rhea starting and ending where she does. WHY DOES SHE HAVE THE PENDANT!?

This is all helping me narrow in on what is really going on..
FOR THE RECORD: I did not try to race down into the catacombs before Rhea left.

I agree that the pendant is one of those strange items that may or may not have deeper significance. The developer suggested the player should start either with the pendant or nothing. Perhaps fully kindling all the bonfires and following the path of a Firekeeper would result in some other interesting events happening?

I like that idea. Tough to say what will work. Whatever does work, should be a cohesive plot. Frampt is unchanged. He asked me if I wanted to hear about my bright future as the chosen one. I told him no. He was so confused. lol. He's all like, "but you DID ring both bells"
He grosses me out.

Big hat logan has been released.

I really think this is working. It just feels like it is working. I can only hope that FROM doesnt expect some ridiculous perfect run with no bonfires, no leveling, kill everybody, get all rings, deprived, never joining a covenant, never talking to (or freeing) an NPC, saving all the NPCs from hollowing, and making me play through NG7. Im getting old..

With so many options to try, I hope someone finds this thing soon.
There should be a site dedicated to these possibilities. Or is this it?

Must say, I was looking at this text dump info. So disappointing. Is the text dump really as disheartening as people make it out to sound?