Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

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    jjshowal
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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by jjshowal on Tue May 15, 2012 11:01 pm

    Here's how you make Dark Souls really hard:

    - Take out your Dark Souls disc
    - Unplug your PS3
    - Plug in your SNES
    - Insert 'Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts'
    - Play

    Congratulations! You now have a much harder game. In all seriousness though, this sounds like a good idea, but the truth is if you are bored with PvE and PvP then there probably isn't a whole lot more worthwhile in these games. I got to that point in Demon's Souls after only 250 hours haha.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 15, 2012 11:11 pm

    If I modded a server to have permanent black phantom mobs, you could expect game-play to be weird sometimes though... I'd be moving mobs, adding mobs, re-arranging mobs. The enemy layout would be completely different when I was done with it, and I'd prolly change it every week to keep it fresh x_x
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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Yarxov on Tue May 15, 2012 11:14 pm

    ^ If you did that, I would buy the PC version of the game. That would make it worth it. cheers


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue May 15, 2012 11:16 pm

    @Rynn:

    Gift isn't a bad idea. Say, it's an item that, in your possession, makes all the BPs appear. "Nito's Toe" silly Only thing is, if it's a gift, it wouldn't necessarily allow for the other twists, like only 1 summon and no BB, etc. Also... I was hoping the character slot would look different in the loading character select screen. Maybe it'd have a red background instead of the default!

    jjshowal wrote:In all seriousness though, this sounds like a good idea, but the truth is if you are bored with PvE and PvP then there probably isn't a whole lot more worthwhile in these games.
    Now that's just too pessimistic for me to consider... I'll hold my breath for BP Mode instead.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue May 15, 2012 11:16 pm

    Rynn wrote:If I modded a server to have permanent black phantom mobs, you could expect game-play to be weird sometimes though... I'd be moving mobs, adding mobs, re-arranging mobs. The enemy layout would be completely different when I was done with it, and I'd prolly change it every week to keep it fresh x_x
    That would be great!

    Edit: lol... Bonewheel Skeletons everywhere! silly

    Edit: Replace every titanite Demon in Sen's with 5 Bonewheel skeletons--do not fall down there!


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 15, 2012 11:21 pm

    Wonder how many people would agree.
    I wish Gwyn had black knights in the bossroom...
    (Rynn is obviously evil)


    And coding an item so that while under it's effects, X can't happen wouldn't be too hard. Just make the item cause a reduction in phantoms permitted in the world. Honestly I'd personally remove the co-op entirely for a BP mode... or make the White Soapstone appear -much- later.

    I'm heading to a coding school this year, so I'm certain it wouldn't be hard to figure out how to make some simple changes to the engine to force this to happen. Black Phantom mode would be personally, an enjoyable project to code anyway.
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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue May 15, 2012 11:33 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:
    Rynn wrote:If I modded a server to have permanent black phantom mobs, you could expect game-play to be weird sometimes though... I'd be moving mobs, adding mobs, re-arranging mobs. The enemy layout would be completely different when I was done with it, and I'd prolly change it every week to keep it fresh x_x
    That would be great!

    Edit: lol... Bonewheel Skeletons everywhere! silly

    Edit: Replace every titanite Demon in Sen's with 5 Bonewheel skeletons--do not fall down there!

    Replace every enemy larger than a bonewheel with the number of bonewheels that could fit inside. It would stop being dark souls and start being dodgewheel.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue May 15, 2012 11:36 pm

    I personally want BP Mode for solo play, but I always PvE solo anyways, so I felt it wasn't really my call to make for people who like to summon phantoms! But since I want this to be "the definitive Dark Souls" mode, I don't want people to just be able to summon phantoms and be toured through BP mode like tourists while their summons do everything.

    As for BKs in Gwyn's room... it would take some strategic fighting, that's for sure! I would adopt a similar play-style to when I'm fighting 3v1; dodge in a manner that I don't get surrounded, and backstab when I can. Thin out the herd of Knights, then when they're gone take out Gwyn as usual. Gwyn might be too aggressive for this to be feasible though. He already doesn't give you any breathing room, I don't know if he'd let up enough for you to be able to backstab his knights. Anyways, I'd like to try this fight!

    @Doughguy:

    Damn... This game needs more bonewheels!


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 15, 2012 11:51 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:
    BLA1NE wrote:
    Rynn wrote:If I modded a server to have permanent black phantom mobs, you could expect game-play to be weird sometimes though... I'd be moving mobs, adding mobs, re-arranging mobs. The enemy layout would be completely different when I was done with it, and I'd prolly change it every week to keep it fresh x_x
    That would be great!

    Edit: lol... Bonewheel Skeletons everywhere! silly

    Edit: Replace every titanite Demon in Sen's with 5 Bonewheel skeletons--do not fall down there!

    Replace every enemy larger than a bonewheel with the number of bonewheels that could fit inside. It would stop being dark souls and start being dodgewheel.
    I hate bonewheels so much that I'd probably remove them for the first two or three weeks...
    Then I'd miss them and add them back in...
    I might for BP modes NG+ replace the corridor in the parish that has the Channeler and all those hollows with a Channeler and 1 bonewheel for each 2 hollows.
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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed May 16, 2012 12:02 am

    More bonewheels?!? :pale:

    You guys are evil! I hate fighting those with a passion.

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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed May 16, 2012 12:06 am

    They're really quite nice, once you get to know them. winking I love that switch room in the Painted World. I just run for the switch and run right out without killing a bonewheel, just dodging them--it's a lot of fun!


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Wed May 16, 2012 12:09 am

    BLA1NE wrote:They're really quite nice, once you get to know them. winking I love that switch room in the Painted World. I just run for the switch and run right out without killing a bonewheel, just dodging them--it's a lot of fun!

    At least they're nice enough to break open the illusory walls for you so that you don't have to.

    And you guys thought my low vitality requirement was too extreme. 8)
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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Yarxov on Wed May 16, 2012 12:40 am

    @Bla1ne, Sounds like fun, should try it naked xD


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Dubscythe on Wed May 16, 2012 12:44 am

    I really like the idea, and though I've never actually beaten NG+ I would like to try it out.

    I figured I would throw in my .02 about this, I really hate the term "definitive version". It kinda says "Oh you beat Dark Souls? Good job loser, that wasn't even the real Dark Souls".


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed May 16, 2012 2:03 am

    Dubscythe wrote:I really hate the term "definitive version". It kinda says "Oh you beat Dark Souls? Good job loser, that wasn't even the real Dark Souls".
    Where did you get that impression? :3

    But you're right. I will think up some new moniker for the mode, and stop using the condescending one.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by callipygias on Wed May 16, 2012 2:25 am

    BLA1NE wrote:Forgot to mention: the point of this would be to revive interest in PvE, for those who have mastered it a long time ago... I
    I'll believe someone has mastered pve when they can beat infinity with their starting weapon. +0.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed May 16, 2012 2:33 am

    Now you're just exaggerating. There's a line between challenging and tedious, and I would draw it somewhere around there. Just because I refuse to attempt that, and in all honesty probably couldn't do it, doesn't mean I haven't mastered the game.

    4 Kings NG+Infinity with an un-upgraded starting weapon, could I do it? Probably not. Is it possible? I don't even know. Is it a measure of someone's mastery of the game? I don't think so.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Dubscythe on Wed May 16, 2012 2:36 am

    BLA1NE wrote:
    Dubscythe wrote:I really hate the term "definitive version". It kinda says "Oh you beat Dark Souls? Good job loser, that wasn't even the real Dark Souls".
    Where did you get that impression? :3

    But you're right. I will think up some new moniker for the mode, and stop using the condescending one.

    I wouldn't say I was right, I just don't like that term at all.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed May 16, 2012 2:37 am

    After a certain point it becomes less about skill and more about endurance. Having to deal more hits and dodge for longer is an endurance test. Having to fight tougher, more numerous enemies in new positions is about skill.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed May 16, 2012 2:56 am

    Dubscythe wrote:
    BLA1NE wrote:
    Dubscythe wrote:I really hate the term "definitive version". It kinda says "Oh you beat Dark Souls? Good job loser, that wasn't even the real Dark Souls".
    Where did you get that impression? :3

    But you're right. I will think up some new moniker for the mode, and stop using the condescending one.

    I wouldn't say I was right, I just don't like that term at all.
    No, you were right. I was implying it, and it was wrong of me. Not only does it belittle the sense of accomplishment a lot of people have gotten out of beating the game, it also implies that From failed to deliver on their promise of what Dark Souls would be. I in fact believe From went above and beyond what was expected of them, and even though certain areas don't live up to their vision, the final product on the whole lives up to their promise.

    BP Mode would be the cherry on top of the sundae, not the definitive Dark Souls, because we already have that.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by callipygias on Wed May 16, 2012 3:02 am

    BLA1NE wrote:Now you're just exaggerating.
    Funny, BLA1NE, I'd say it's exaggerating to say you've mastered the game, but whatever. Maybe you mean you've mastered the game to the point you have to create artificial difficulty to make it challenging.

    I tried infinity a while back with my main guy, sl 390 or so at the time, with a scimitar +0. Up to the gargoyles was as much fun as I'd had in a while, but no way I could do it. Being sl 390 doesn't help much when it takes 9 R1's to kill a simple hollow. Taurus Demon was sooo fun, though (for the first time since my first playthrough) so I think I'll try it again against certain bosses like Quelaag and Iron Golem. IG would take forever, I think.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed May 16, 2012 3:56 am

    callipygias wrote:
    BLA1NE wrote:Now you're just exaggerating.
    Funny, BLA1NE, I'd say it's exaggerating to say you've mastered the game, but whatever.
    It's hard to define mastering a game quantitatively, but qualitatively I would say it's having a thorough knowledge of its elements, and being able to act on that knowledge. Like I said earlier:

    BLA1NE wrote:I know the placement of every mob in the game (on top of that I know their weapons, movesets, loot, aggro range, how to bait them, how to run past them, how to backstab them safely, how to...) and after having beaten it 30+ times [...]
    And then I did an impromptu speed run (as in: on a whim, not planned, off the top of my head) and beat the game in 2 and a half hours with 3 deaths.

    If that's not a pretty good starting point to define "mastering" the game, I don't know what is, but in my opinion it certainly isn't handicapping yourself to the point where it takes half an hour to beat a single boss--that's just tedium.


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Kaminari on Wed May 16, 2012 4:32 am

    all I can say is that I work on xbox trying to gravelord undead burg with a lvl 7 toon, when my friends is there, I try gravelord, hve used three eyes and don't have more...howoever, I got wrong people with those three attempts sad


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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by PlasticandRage on Wed May 16, 2012 4:49 am

    I have an obsessive compulsive need to keep my inventory orderly. I need my bottomless box. I need it. Instead of ditching the BB, they should just add some anti BB glitch security.

    Aside from that I think this idea is awesome though.
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    Re: Black Phantom Mode - aka "BP Mode"

    Post by Rynn on Wed May 16, 2012 10:43 am

    BLA1NE wrote:

    BLA1NE wrote:I know the placement of every mob in the game (on top of that I know their weapons, movesets, loot, aggro range, how to bait them, how to run past them, how to backstab them safely, how to...) and after having beaten it 30+ times [...]
    And then I did an impromptu speed run (as in: on a whim, not planned, off the top of my head) and beat the game in 2 and a half hours with 3 deaths.

    If that's not a pretty good starting point to define "mastering" the game, I don't know what is, but in my opinion it certainly isn't handicapping yourself to the point where it takes half an hour to beat a single boss--that's just tedium.
    ...This is why I want to -move- mobs. IMHO if I modded a black phantom mode, what would really return the difficulty would be a rearrangal of already known mobs, thusforth causing players to not be aware of what is coming from where again. A lot of the difficulty of this game is lost just from the consistent spawns.

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