The Search for Lore

Good point there. I totally forgot about the Giants. They are a species in Lordran. The Gods used them as slaves. Those are their Graves.

I'm not sure if this has been speculated on in regards to your last post Acidic, could not the Tomb of the Giants be some kind of resting place for the gods.As most dieties in the game are depicted as large to downright massive beings the Tomb of the Giants seems to me to have some sort of special significance to me as a place where gods may have been laid to rest.

Take Gwyn's Tomb in Anor Londo. Its pretty big much like the massive coffins in the ToTG and given that Nito is the First of the Dead, almost a deific title in of itself, and master of the Dead it seems like a fitting place for Gods to go when they die.

Just a thought I wanted to share, not sure if it will do any good, but twas worth a shot.

OMG Acid, you said something that the developers said it has to do with some secret. They said that the secret can be found after New Game Plus, something like that. Chiz and I read the interview. The only things that change in NG+ is that you can buy Gwyns clothes, exchange his soul with the Sunbros and choose to meet kaathe before talking to frampt and give him the Lordvessel. There has to be something.....

Yeah I did it too, but used the bb glitch. I even killed Gwyndolin before aquiring the Lordvessel to see if Gwynevere dissapears, but sadly no. The chest was empty too, no maiden robes.

http://www.fromsoftware.jp/darksouls/contents/trailer_en.html
The first trailer, at about 1-1.05 look at the crows head. is it just me or is there some sort of mark there?

What the hell? Why weren't these trailers in america?

I'm pretty sure these trailers are from the pre final release as can be seen from the scene in firelik with the firekeeper and tarkus.Also they are in Glyphstones thread somehwere.

Also I can't seem to notice any symbols on the crow, anything specific I'm looking for?

Just on its forehead. I cant tell whether it is a symbol or its just its feathers

I can kind of see something, but it just looks like feathers to me, I know in game I've never spotted anything.

I'm dying of anticipation here Acidic!

I am as well.

Ugh. Ok, I was going to post this a few hours ago, however there was an issue with this on the wiki, which caused half of my post to be removed from play, and I could not save it at all. So, due to such things, you got it a few hours later. Who knew. All right. It is time to talk about the world of Chaos, the Flame Witches of which we know, as well as the Bed of Chaos, the Demons, Kirk, and other forms in which tie to it, as well as the philosophy in which this group follows. However, due to some of its long extended comments, such a topic may be extended to be two posts. It is going to be one of the longest posts. Some of you know that the news and confirmations in which FROM has made. Nothing has changed in the search, but clarification of Kirk being part of the Chaos Servants has shown to be true, as well as the Witches being special in their own case. Nothing in the search has changed. So, let it begin.

25. The Function of the Chaos Flame

In the war of the dragons, there were three beings in which lead the war against the Dragons as the Flame Lords. Two were the First of the Dead and the Lord of Sunlight. The third being the Witch of Izalith. The Witch, as well as her Seven Daughters of Chaos, was the prime rulers of the buried and burning world of Lost Izalith. During these times of the Age of Dragons, the age of ancients, the Flame Witches obtained the power of the Flame of Disparity, and used it to weave Firestorms that burned the world, relighting it into the Age of Fire. However, after the Age of Ancients, their power came from the Flame of Disparity, and when it was unlit, their power was gone. However, due to the lust of the flame, the Witch of Izalith set a course of creating a second flame that they could harness and use. However, the duplication became an aberration of the First Flame, turning and transforming into a different flame all together; The Flame of Chaos.

That is what we know of the Great Flame Witch and her daughters, which they created the flame of chaos and all but two were transformed by such a Flame. The Two being the Witch in the Great Swamp, and the other guarding the door to the Bed of Chaos. The rest had transformed into demons, such as the Spider Centaurs, or have died, such as the corpse that is guarded by Ceaseless Discharge. Only two are unaccounted for, and those two are speculated as the Roots that hold down the Chaos Flame within the Bed of Chaos. Of course, that is only speculation, and no proof states such things. So what is so special about the beings of Izalith? Well, that is for later. Now, it is time to talk about the Chaos Flame itself, and the many things that surround it. Other factors will be explained soon.

The Chaos Flame is different than the Flame of Disparity, in many forms in which makes these two different from one another. One, is the factor in which the Chaos Flame does not have any Bonfires. All of the Bonfires are tied to the Flame of Disparity, in which the proof lies in that all the Bonfires, except the ones of Ash Lake, are the same as one another. The bones of the fallen and the time distortion and reincarnation are the key factors in which defines the Flame of Disparity. The Chaos Flame is not as stable. Instead, it distorts the being itself, creating the Flame Demons in which reside across Lordran. These Demons do not include the Winged Demons, nor the Crow Demons, as they both are tied to the Gods themselves, not the Chaos Flame. The Chaos Demons, the Flame Demons, are humanoid beings that may have existed inside Izalith before Chaos was born. As the Demons are all humanoid in stature, and all have intelligence of sorts, as shown by the Capra and Tree Demons (the tree demons will be explained soon), and are all Humanoid. It could be that such Demons are similar to that of the Dragons, being transformed into such Demons.

These Humanoid Chaos Demons are all strong in their own ways. The three main groups, the Capra Demons, the Taurus Demons, and the Tree Demons, are all humanoid in appearance, all armed with a weapon; showing a good amount of intelligence, and all are dangerous, spread across Lordran when the Chosen Undead travel across the World.

The Taurus Demon, possibly being the least intelligent out of the three, is the Bull Demon of the group. They are the brutes that use their strength to crush those around them, armed with the bones of fallen comrades. These Demons are hardy, although their lack of armor and such makes them easy to being stunned by a good amount of physical damage, as well as other sorts. These Demons also shows signs of resilience as well. Even though they are not immune to fire, their feet are able to walk across the Lava Patches of the Demon Ruins, possibly due to their hooves. They are also the hariest of the bunch, which speaks a lot, as no other Chaos Demons have such stature of hair as part of their Appearance, other than the goat demons. These Demons use bone fragements as Great Axes, although from what demon is unknown, due to the fact that the bones are oddly too large to fit the Bull Demons themselves. They are the second most common of all the Demons, in which their is not a lot of them once most are whipped out, with only a few remaining, guarding the Orange Fog Gate to Lost Izalith. They all have an animation of Drop Attacks, in which both the boss version and the normal ones are easily dropped attacked from above. The Boss Demon, the sign in which shows such demons being outside of Lost Izalith, guards the walls of Lordran, and has the ability to jump high distances, due to the strong legs that only rival the arms they have. Although they have horns, the demons do not bother using them to attack enemies.

The Second Demon, the Capra. Demon, is the most common of the many Demons. Unlike the taurus demons, these goat demons are smaller in size, the smallest humanoid demons of them all. These Demons are seen to replace strength with intelligence, however. These Demons have the arms of Forged Swords, the Great Machetes, in which are made of Iron metal and Barbed Wire, an art of which will be explained later on. These demons, particularly the one that is in lower, undead burg, uses also an army of wild dogs as its minions as well. The basement key proves as such:

“Opens the narrow passage leading below at the far face of the great bridge in the Undead Burg.
“The lower Undead Burg is a treacherous place. Do not turn your back on the wily thieves, or the wild dogs who serve the Capra Demon.”

Such Capra Demons are also fast in their swings, although when using both weapons at the same time is very slow in their attacks. However their hits are very dangerous if exposed, and victims are known to no get up after such swings, compared to the brute counterparts. Although these demons also have such hair, they are least covered by it that the Bull Demon, making the two the only demons that show such animal features. They also have horns as well, but it is more so a helmet to cover the four eyes that they have underneath. Such a demon is also most common, being the primary grunts of the Demon Ruins.

The last humanoid Demon, the Tree Demon, are the most hardiest, intelligent, and rarest Demons of the Chaos Flame. Unlike the other Demons, they are the most idolized as well. For those who do not know, the Tree Demons are categorized as the Firesage Demon, the Stray Demon, and the Asylum Demon. Why they are categorized as 'Tree Demon' will be momentary. The Tree Demons are the largest creatures that are of the Humanoid Demons, and show it with their strength. Their weapons are made from branches of the Stone Arch Trees, which curiously enough is also found at the center of Lost Izalith. The weapons, both the Demon Catalyst and the Demon Great Hammer, are from the tree, although the Catalyst has a Magma Rock as well. These different weapon uses categorize the Demons in Rank, with lesser armed with the hammer, while the higher creatures of power armed with the Catalyst. These Demons show a good percentage of intelligence in this regard, and in more so such intelligence is shown by the art of sorcery, in which is the sorcery of the Daughter of Chaos, used before the art of Pyromancy was born (which will also be explained soon). The Demons are also the most uncommon, as only three are seen by the Chosen Undead in total of any playthrough. The Tree Demons, curiously enough, have a tree-like root growing form the top of their heads, which might show some sort of rank in these regards. Even more so, the demons have statuettes of themselves found in both lost Izalith and the demon ruins, in which players call the Stone Demons. Golems that float towards enemies and breathe fire, an art in which only the Tree Demons have mastered across the entire plain of existence, excluding the Ceaseless Discharge, the art of the flame that was born from the Chaos Flame. The Centipede Demon being an exception to that rule, for other reasons.

Such Demons are possibly the high commanders and the overlords that horde across the world as Generals of Chaos, in which case they invoke the influence of Chaos across all of Humanity. The only one being the Firesage Demon, but his difference is the factor of him being possibly the 'leader' of the pack, due to him being armored with the Chaos Flame across his body, simialr to possible outcomes as Flash Sweat and Iron Flesh for normal undead. Such a Demon would probably be the creature to train those who gain rank the art of Flame Sorcery, and resides there. Interestingly enough, these Demons are not Spawns of the Chaos Flames, but more so the deformation of human beings turned into such creatures. Although it does not follow the fact of Time Distortion, the Distortion of the people themselves shows similarity between the Flames, although different. Whether or not that these creatures are born from a human or humanity is unknown. However, other Demons that have spawned form the Chaos Flame are not of Humanoid stature, but more so of a different form all together. Thse Demons include the Ceaseless Discharge and the Chaos Eaters.

The Chaos Eaters are what you get when there is nothing to base the Chaos off of. These creatures are very weak in terms of other demons, although they are very corrosive and are immune to drop attacks (they have a mouth over their head). Thses Octopus-like creatures are disfigured with plenty of eyes, arms, and other forms to show the disarry in which these creatures are formed as. Unlike the Humanoid Demons, the Chaos Eater is similar to that of the Bone Towers and even the Pinwheel, in which they are formed form titanite. These creatures have the essence of Red titanite, which shows that such creatures were born from such rocks instead of the other demons. Of course they are a similar factor of the Centipede Demon (which is not a Chaos Demon, let that be known for later), that it is a reanimation and transformation as such. They are dangerous, although they are very primitive and are designed to stalk Lost Izalith as hunters, and not operate as Warriors as the Humanoid Demons.

The next demon, the unique Ceaseless Discharge, is a mixture of both a humanoid demon and the animated ones. Many consider the creature to be that of a special someone (who I will get to later), however such a creature shows good reason why it isn't so. I shall explain that being when the time comes. I am a searcher, I am not the truth, I seek the truth. I may be wrong... but that will be for another argument. I will explain why, of course, how Ceaseless came to be from what I have found.

The Ceaseless is a special being. As you can see, the body in which it is formed from is that of what looks like a Taurus Demon. Its form is that of a muscular humanoid form, and the Taurus demons have been seen around the Demon as well (both when the lava is full and dispensed). The Demon, as we say, does have qualities in which the Charred Ring describes of that special someone, but that being also holds the Chaos Ember. As the Embers are the sub-powered sources of the Flames, in which the Embers are usually used for smithery and forging by Chosen Undead that have found no purpose for it, give power. Such examples include the Dark Ember, which gives the ability of bringing the Dead back to life (the reason why the Bonewheels, the only skeletons outside the world of Nito, are seen in the Painted World). The chaos Flame, as we can see from that of the Chaos Eaters, is very chaotic and is orderly. Even more so, such disfiguration would have caused a Demon who holds such an Ember to... mutate, into something of an odd stature. as such a Taurus Demon holds that Chaos Ember, With such stature, the body is disfigured with an A-Symmetrical Form. As the creature has spawned that of new limbs and eyes, such a creature would be disfigured in such a way that it looks pained.

Of course, the debate whether Ceaseless was that of either a Capra Demon or a Taurus Demon is debatable, as Ceaseless has many eyes hidden by a shelled, horned head; features shown by the Capra Demon. However, as it is surrounded by Taurus Demons, and the Horns and Muscular Figure shows that of a Taurus Demon, it is hard to say. Its stance also does not help, as it is between a stand and a somewhat animal crouch, in which both the Capra and the Taurus are distant in those factors of stance. Of course, due to its movement, it can be said that the demon is that more so of a Capra Demon than a Taurus Demon. However, it still is Debatable. Whatever Demon it came from, such a Demon could have been disfigured and transformed by the Chaos Ember, which is seen laying where the Discharge was standing, guarding the corpse of a fallen Daughter of Chaos, on a makeshift altar of sorts.

Such Demons shows the Distortion and Incarnation that the Flame of Disparity has, although it is off difference in stance, with the Distortion being the objects themselves instead of time, and the incarnation being the form of life from inanimate objects, as shown by the Chaos Eaters. Other such Factors in which the Chaos Flame Shares of comparison to the Flame of Disparity, although different, is Humanity. The Flames of Bonfires are fueled by power, in which case the Bonfires give more energy the more humanity is feed from a wanderer. However, the pyromacies in which use the power of the Flame of Disparity, as well as the Large Flame (which hints ties towards the rite of kindling, which is a relic of sorts from the Flame of Disparity... talk about that another time), are not powered as such from the Chaos Flames. However, the Chaos Flame is different in that regard.

The Chaos Flame is dependent in Humanity as well in power, however it is different than the Flame of Disparity. The Chaos Flame uses humanity to increase the power of the Chaos Flame, as hinted by the Chaos Pyromancies and the Chaos Weapons, which derive from the Chaos Ember itself. The Chaos uses it to increase the power of strength, although whether or not the Chaos Flame uses Humanity as the Flame of Disparity is unknown. What is known, however, is that the Chaos Flame increases in power the more the Dark Spires are in possession of a being, which shows the link of the Dark... which is a curious factor in itself. Such flames of Chaos are seen by the witch that guards the Bed of Chaos, Salaman Jeremiah (we discussed about him in the past) in the Painted World, and the Chaos Flame itself. Interesting enough, the Chaos Flame is also a Chaos Demon as well. Whether the Chaos Flame and the Bed of Chaos are one or the Chaos Flame uses the Bed of Chaos as its resting place, is unknown. However, unlike other creatures, the wounds in which the players inflict does not heal back to normal, so it can be said that such factors cause the Animated Tree and the Flame to disconnect from one another, as it were.

Now, the interesting factor of all of these things is that the Chaos Flame, like the Bonfires and the Flame of Disparity... has a Firekeeper. The grub Witch, which can be said as the Former Witch of Izalith, has transformed by the Chaos Flame as well. However, unlike the Firekeeper defending the Flame, it seems the Chaos Flame defends the Firekeeper. Even more so, the Witch of Izalith is unable to neither move nor operate, and lies crippled and twisted under the tree. It could be that the Witch has been removed from control, replaced by the flame in which she wanted power from. Such facts show the difference of both flames, as the Chaos Flame shows a somewhat intellect stature. Now, whether or not the Witch of Izalith's mental form left the physical to become the Chaos Flame, or if the whole of her is trapped in that Grub body, is unknown. However, her texture and features show her as female, and her skin is that of what she and her daughters of chaos wore, formed into her own skin. A pity that she could not obtain what she once had, while others prospered from her.

The Functions of the Chaos Flame are stated. The rest will be posted soon. Trust me; it should be divided into two different posts. Such topics of the Witch of Izalith are fueling, and I did not really want to go deep into it, until I truly understood how things have worked out. The rest that are unexplained here will be show soon, either today or tomorrow. My fingers are numb, though.

I always thought that the Demons were spawned from the Bed of Chaos. If you say that these demons were alive before the Bed of Chaos, you are complicating things Acid. You forgot about the Dragon Legs, which are demons too. I like to think that ALL demons are born from Chaos, and what you said in one of your posts, that Gwyn started a War to counter this Demon Army when he went to link the Flame. I really like that idea because it makes sense (the black knight weapons are proof).

This is entirely off-topic, I found a female corpse with Twin-Humanities in the Lower Undead Burg, with the Hollows with Torches guarding it.

If you notice, many female corpses have humanity.

And I state that the Demon's exist when the Chaos Flame does. Even more so, the Demon's are created from it. The Bed of Chaos is part of the Chaos Flame. Hope it helps you.

I completely misread it. Now I understand it. When the Chaos was born, the humanoid beings transformed to Taurus, Capra, Tree Demons. It's a interesting theory. I can't wait your post about who is the First Firekeeper. Sorry for misunderstanding.

That's after the next post to explain the rest. It is obvious... But I feel irritated by it. Trying to probe it wrong before I actually post it, first.

Acidic, after your post I must ask you if you believe these findings support my theory that there were 4 sons of chaos, the three tree demons and kirk?

Mm, sorry. It only mentions the son of chaos, not 'a'. I know the Demon's are unique, but their could be more of them out their, causing chaos for the world of men. Of course the black knits are also seen across the world as well. The Asylum is a somewhat example.

Do not worry, the next post will tell the rest. You should understand the function of an important element, before the rest of it is told.

I'm still quite curious about those two bodies out in the lava that carry two Divine Blessings.

Tolvo wrote:I'm still quite curious about those two bodies out in the lava that carry two Divine Blessings.

The corpses that I have seen show themselves as male, as I could not find that strap of a bra, as the female corpses usually have to identify it. As their are many corpses with heroes and brave knights and warriors, it can be said that the two were warriors that were followers of Gwynevre, or the Way of White.

"Demon catalyst formed from Izalith molten rock. Can be used as fire weapon.
The Demon Firesage was the first demon, and the last master of the original fire arts before the Witch of Izalith was engulfed by Chaos, creating pyromancy."

From the demon's catalyst description.

I think this means he existed before the bed of chaos was created. Not that it makes any sense, it confuses the hell out of me. But the description is right there.

I've always read that as he was the latest master of pyromancy before the Chaos flame was created and altered him like it possibly did the dragon legs.

I was examining quite a few bodies as well, though with the lighting in that area it is brutal. I remember those two were definitely male, the gold hemmed body was female, and the corpse above the bonfire before the bed of chaos was female. Other than that, my eyes were blinded by a mixture of bright orange and red.

This is what I'm thinking:

"and the last master of the original fire arts before the Witch of Izalith was engulfed by Chaos, creating pyromancy."

So, evidently the demon practiced the flame sorceries mentioned by the Catalyst of Izalith's description. Meaning, he practiced the same magic that the witches did. "and the last master" makes me think he was the LAST of the witches to learn fire soceries, because after this, they were all engulfed. I think this furthers the possibility that the demon is a son of Chaos. I'm gonna make a bridge and speculate that he was the one to have dropped the orange charred ring. Why does he look like other demons? Maybe because that's just what demon's look like. It could be that he was human-form (such as the witches), until the flame turned him, and some others, into similar demons.

IDK.

it does not state that the Firesage existed, it just simply states that the art of Fire Sorcery was mastered last by the Demon. Now the question is, whether or not the Daughters of Chaos and the Witch of Izalith were immediately transformed by the Chaos Flame when created, or later on in time. It never defines as they were changed by it immediately, but they were transformed by it, none the less. The Art still exists, as the Stray Demons shows as such. Although, he is not the master. it does not mean that the creature was created before hand, it states that the Flame Sorcery was the last one to master it, before pyrmoancy was born from the birth of the Chaos Flame

I said that the things that are not answered will be posted soon. My Ipod is not the greatest form of communication. Give it time, I will have free time to write the second post about the Chaos Flame and such.