Your tips for Mastering DKS

Speed and mobility is a major factor. Especially against multiple opponents. And as others have said know all the spells, and weapons attack length an distance. As the Rock would say, "Know your rolls." well I changed it up a bit because he would say Role instead. But the timing of your rolls and monitoring of your endurance helps as well. Know your enemy too. You should be able to spot by what they are wearing and using what to expect from them as far as attack and play style. For instance, Crown of dusk and crystal catalyst most likely a buff dark bead spammer with possibly pursuers and a few WOGs as well. Know these things and a few others and you will be an average veteran player in no time my friend. From there the skies the limit.

i wouldn't recommend guessing people's playstiles, because if its anything other than what you guessed there is a good chance you eat an attack attempting to counter something that didn't happen.

Instead, learn to spot gear based clues as to capabilities. IE the CoD/CoDS means mage most of the time. If you don't see a catalyst, the mlbh or the mlgs pyromancy is probable, if you do see a catalyst or mage weapon its a mage, who may or may not have pyromancy. Any piece of havels/ giants/stone/black iron almost certainly means 53+ poise, so trading is a no-go with most weapons.

That type of stuff. If you assume my mage with the tcc and cod spams dp, you're going to eat a css when you time your dodge wrong because you're trying to dodge a non-exsistent db.

Anybody who toggles or dead angles really has no room to make complaints about tumblebuff/TWoD. Doing so draws an imaginary line.

Dead angles are kind of impossible to avoid though, since people will strafe into them .

Glitches are part of the game though and actively utilized and thus one needs to plan around their existence, going for staggerstabs and spacing carefully respectively (with DA WoG you have to roll through it).

In both cases, you're using a glitch to gain a competitive advantage that is not consistently viable to use. TWoD doesn't last long and isn't easy to set up, and trying it in every single invasion might actually result in a lower winrate than trying for DA on something like the zwei.

Distinguishing between glitches that have limited but obviously beneficial utility in this capacity is arbitrary. They're not in different ballparks whatsoever, that's simply your assumption/assertion based on what is generally accepted in the community. It has nothing to do with the real competitive advantage between these two things.

For example, try invading + tumble buffing in front of two gankers and tell me how that goes. DA might beat them though. Let's not play pretend here.

We've generally been discussing in the setting of a duel in this thread. In a duel, I most definitely believe TWoD is in a different ballpark than Dead Angling.

Even in the setting of a random invasion, TWoD is favorable unless a couple of gankers are spawn camping you. And the chances of that happening are not very high unless you are in the Forest, where worse is to be expected.

Sure, one can make the argument that they are both glitches and that there should be no discrimination between them, but Dead Angling adds depth to the game unlike TWoD. Dead Angling shows risk and reward and requires some skill. TWoD is nearly unavoidable and requires the user to simply walk up to his or her opponent.

Even in the setting of a random invasion, TWoD is favorable unless a couple of gankers are spawn camping you

Debateable. Anybody who recognizes it would stay away from it, and considering the setup they'd have time to create some distance.

Of course, that depends on people recognizing the glitch, but the same is true about DA and TE - having these done by *surprise* usually results in a swift death, especially if the DA victim doesn't know about toggling.

Sure, one can make the argument that they are both glitches and that there should be no discrimination between them, but Dead Angling adds depth to the game unlike TWoD

Incorrect - both glitches remove depth, not add them. DA is a method whereby people bypass the strength and stability of shields - which are much stronger in souls games than virtually any other. They're one of if not the biggest reason greatshields aren't really viable; you can hit through the shield! I'm not sure how removing dynamic spacing based on shields and entire weapon class, outright "adds depth" any more than "I see him tumblebuffing, let's backstab or run depending on distance".

Also, dead angling takes much less stat investment than tumblebuffing. An argument can be made that it is stronger on average.

Dead Angling shows risk and reward and requires some skill.

I'm not really going to respect this argument unless you come up with a justification for it, because it's canned. But I'll address it at least. Aiming sideways away from someone isn't super difficult, and neither is turning around. Whatever "risk" is involved with that is roughly the same as any other attack, or the amount of time one exposes themselves while buffing.

TWoD is nearly unavoidable and requires the user to simply walk up to his or her opponent.

TWoD has a multiple-second wind-up, an extremely obvious tell, and only lasts a matter of seconds. Anybody with a pulse that isn't close enough to backstab that before it gets off the ground will simply run away, nullifying it entirely. Baiting someone into range without getting yourself killed in the process or doing no damage certainly takes no LESS skill than turning sideways and pressing "r1".

However, skill isn't super relevant here anyway. We're talking about glitches that gain a competitive advantage, and all 3 of these glitches are easily attainable by anybody who puts a little time into PvP and wants to learn them. Claiming that they're materially different is playing pretend.

I'm not saying players shouldn't use them, because barring any rules to the contrary, anything within the game is fair to try to win, but differentiating them based on mass appeal or pretend notions is a smidge silly.

Fine, I'll restate what I said as opinions and not as facts. I believe DA adds depth because the player now has options towards how he or she can approach his or her opponent. It can provide risk because  that little bit you give your opponent your back is more than enough to set yourself up for a BS.  If you miss a DA,  it's normally not going to be in your favor. You'll either get parried, backstabbed, or you would have wasted stamina on a poor attempt at an attack.

I believe DA takes at least some amount of skill, whether the user is really "skillful" or not is irrevelant. I mean that the person Dead Angling was required to put a good amount of effort and thought into DA before actually using it to a good effect.

In the hands of a smart user, TWoD is one of the scariest things to run into. A smart user would not use it in situations that are not favorable, which is normally against a gank or someone with knowledge about it and is a good player anyway.

What I'm trying to say is that TWoD shouldn't even be compared to DA because of the huge differences between the two. I'm not arguing one is better than the other, but that in the situations we've been arguing, TWoD shouldn't even matter. In a duel, or in an invasion between two "skilled" players, you'd see Dead Angles thrown out, not TWoD. TWoD shouldn't even have a place in the argument since we're talking about mastering Dark Souls (whether that is possible or not is a different argument). And whether we like it or not, the majority of the PvP community would agree on the census that DA and TE are required to perform well in competitive PvP.

Well, I can accept that argument. TWOD by nature isn't something you can set up with someone in your face, and any sensible duelist will run from it and then kill you the next time you try to set it up, probably with prejudice knowing typical patterns of the community .

Still, one should have at least working knowledge of its existence and when to foot it to avoid the unblockable death. There doesn't exist a duel spot that doesn't double as a gank/camp spot after all.

It's best to know about all glitches that have the potential to be reliably reproduced and affect outcomes, regardless of whether one chooses to use them.

TWOD?

AnimeRamen wrote:TWOD?

"Tranquil Walk of Death." A glitch that mimics the effects of twop, only inflicting heavy damage while doing so. I won't go into any more detail than that.

The Letter X wrote:

AnimeRamen wrote:TWOD?

"Tranquil Walk of Death." A glitch that mimics the effects of twop, only inflicting heavy damage while doing so. I won't go into any more detail than that.

...I've been gone far too long

The counter to twop dark bead.
Parry the dark beads and take partial damage which is very little but better than dying, now gankers are more ez than ever