The worst arguement against something being OP is "you can dodge it". We know that, but you see, we're talking about what happens when you don't dodge it, not that it's not OP just because you can dodge it. You can dodge anything really, so that arguement is moot.
While I agree, it's hard to see how the hornet is consistenly dealing more damage than 2-3 hit combos with a stun or stunlock, or buffed magic from any branch except faith (which hurts slightly less). For example a great fireball + great combustion combo with bellowing ring is easily going to drop over 1k on someone, and likely significantly more...and if the fireball hits reasonably close the combustion follow-up is unavoidable. Stunlocks can do 1200-2000 damage if buffed and not toggle-escaped. WoG tick-stab (without hornet ring) will hurt more on most weapons than just a hornet BS. Dark bead, pursuers, homing soul mass...these things can all easily OHKO or very close.
In such an environment, nobody's really showing how hornet backstabs are unusual in any capacity. Hornet backstabs, despite assertions otherwise, *are* build-dependent due to the ring usage and it *is* possible to make the ring worthless in a given fight. Pretty much the only weapons that don't match this "any mistake can get you killed easily" tendency in Dark Souls are weapons designed for low damage/high speed or weapons designed to poke (basically, things like kats/straight/curved swords and things like spears)...though buffed kats/curved swords can easily rip over 2/3 health from a careless missed attack too. Anything else can easily drop 1k+ on someone due to a tiny mistake...it's hard to single out BS or hornet ring when a large % of the in-game options can either combo-kill your or redline you.
Fat rolling is already out of the question in almost every way shape and form, mid-rolling isn't far behind.
Like I said, you don't need fast roll to "dodge backstabs". You don't even NEED midroll, though midroll at least is useful to have against spells due to fat roll's recovery frames...but against BS? Nope, don't need midroll.
Gankers can obviously tag-team BS if you midroll and don't carry something as backup that stops it (WoG, zwei, sweeping weapons in general)...but one person isn't going to land that unless you give up roll BS on a slow attack or mess up. People act like players can just lock on and walk around...but that flat out doesn't work, at all, if you fight them unlocked and just attack them (lead them just slightly). Even with hammers/axes class of weapons I can just stand there unlocked and beat on the guy's shield (Gwyn help him if he isn't blocking), and the pushback + unlocked turning kills any hope of BS.
TLDR:
1. Backstabs, even with hornet, do not provide unusual damage compared to spells, stunlock combos, buff builds, or any other PvP SL options regularly used. You die quickly in DS.
2. Backstabs are not a given, and fishing alone without other tactics can be punished by any roll speed easily with the right weapon choices and/or playing unlocked.
It's really no different from saying pyro is overpowered, or even something ridiculous like "DKGA is overpowered"...those things can easily drop 1k-1.5k damage on someone in a hurry depending on build.
by WaffleGuy Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:00 pm
