Advice on dex build

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    Boltz
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    Advice on dex build

    Post by Boltz on Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:41 am

    First time posting, been lurking around here for awhile.

    I'm looking for some advice on my first real pvp character, gonna do a dex build using daggers. "Maybe scythes"

    It will be for sl 120, Ive put quite a bit of thought into it.
    Below i will list the gear and final stats I plan to use. and explain why Ive chosen as such.

    I'm sure I'm doing something wrong through so feel free to point it out.

    The focus of this character is ruthless stealth guerilla invations as a darkwraith not honorable duels (I have a darkmoon paladin for that)

    Final stats
    -40 vit
    -16 attune (4 slots)
    -50 end
    -14 str
    -45 dex
    -14 int

    The rest is base

    The str is for 1handing katanas mainly just for clearing the game.
    The int is for utility spells like chameleon and hidden body.
    50 end is so I can wear the equip I want without using havels or wood grain.

    GEAR (fully upgraded ofc)
    -Shadow mask
    -Black leather armor
    -black iron gauntlets
    -Black iron legs
    -right hand bandit dagger +15 with resin or max lightning - catalyst
    -Left hand heater shield or parry dagger - pyro flame
    Rings = FAP and hornet

    Spells are - Hidden body/chameleon/great combust/ toxic mist


    This setup first of all looks good, and since im using a light chest I make very little noise while moving about, helps me stalk people.
    but also allows me to have 36 poise while staying under 25% eqipload which prevents stagger from most weapons except the great stuff which are slow and can be rolled
    But also, if I want to use a katana/scythe or just feel the need for it I can drop the hornets for wolf ring and hit 76 poise making me pretty much stagger immune.



    So, is there any way I can squeeze more out of this build? I guess I could use a mask, id rather not but will probably end up using the child mask for the stam regen....

    Tips, criticism?
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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:51 am

    if any one two hands a great sword you're probably gonna get stunlocked at 76 poise, and the moolight great sword has been known to one hit stagger with poise in the 90's, but as long as you dodge you're probably fine

    also why toxic mist when dung pies are faster, or isit for the obsuring smokescreen effect? in which case why not poison mist which has more casts?


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by Boltz on Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:38 am

    Ya its mostly for the smokescreen effect, but also an option to hep me in 2vX fights because people are more inclined to avoid or cleanse the toxic but will ignore poison. Plus the pies stack toxic on me as well, not that I don't also use them.

    Isn't 76 the point where 2h greatswords like claymore and zwei dont stagger? I'm pretty sure I read that in a thread here somewhere, cant comment on the moonlight sword, that thing seems kinda buggy tbh. But id rather roll than eat hits from greatswords anyways.


    The more I think about it I may swap the mists for more uses, but I generally wont really get more then one shot at a mist per invade anyways so idk.
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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by LOLRagezzz on Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:57 am

    your right on the 76 poise, same amount my toon is rocking.


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:49 pm

    Looks good to me. You'll have to move quickly, since your weapons won't be very strong. But, when you parry someone, it is really going to hurt. Consider an estoc too. Even though it's critical damage is lower, it still parries and BS for higher damage than the Bandit's knife. It also has a great moveset. Rapier is the best for BS/riposte damage, but it is only slightly higher than the Estoc and its moveset isn't as good.


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:42 pm

    try acid surge has 2 casts and it costs them souls for repairs if they enter the cloud.

    gonna have to try that 76 poise myself then if that is the cutoff point for 2h gs stagger...


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by Boltz on Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:44 pm

    I considered acid surge but it just doesn't work for what i want it to do.

    I will try a rapier, I had given it some thought too actually.

    What do you think is best for actually getting a clean parry in pvp?
    Ive played with the heater shield targe and parry dagger, even a bit with another bandits in left hand, was thinking about the dark hand too can it parry decently?

    I can't make up my mind on what to offhand for parries ;(
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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:47 pm

    I don't know how it parries compared to other shields. Personally, I'm still working on parrying. I have to adjust for the lag. I do know some predictable timings, but still can't pull them off with confidence.


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by JacobAndWilliam on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:32 pm

    Have you considered a dex/int hybrid? For me, the 50 end is too high. I would drop it down to 30. This is the most you'll need for a dex wep like bandit's. Take those 20 points and put it into int. also drop dex to 40 and add those 5 pts. to int. This will increase your int to 39 which will allow you to use CMW and crystal soul spear. I think dex builds are more built for mobility. Being able to move in and out to attack. This would be better accomplished with lighter armor in addition to RoFaP and DWGR. You could also use the mask of the father to use heavier armor. Don't worry about the sound you'll make. I don't believe phantoms make any noise when they move.
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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by strangejoy on Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:08 pm

    Boltz wrote:I considered acid surge but it just doesn't work for what i want it to do.

    I will try a rapier, I had given it some thought too actually.

    What do you think is best for actually getting a clean parry in pvp?
    Ive played with the heater shield targe and parry dagger, even a bit with another bandits in left hand, was thinking about the dark hand too can it parry decently?

    I can't make up my mind on what to offhand for parries ;(

    The dark hand and the heater parry at basically the same speed with the same parry window and cooldown (fast parries with a normal window and a quick cooldown). However, heaters can easily do setup parries (block the first attack, and parry the second), while the dark hand's low stability and inability to deflect attacks makes setup parries challenging against weapons with high shield busting abilities. The parrying knife and the target shield have quick parries with large windows (the parrying knife has a larger window, imo), but they seem to have long cooldowns. Also, they're not particularly useful as blocking shields or for setup parries (the target shield can do a setup against small and medium weapons, but it's risky against large weapons).

    To make a long story short, I think the heater shield is the best all around option for parrying. If you want to take a risk, rapiers are also a good option (lightning quick parries, medium parry window, and very quick cooldowns), but you obviously can't block anything with a rapier. I have a dual-wielding rapier dex build. It has zero poise, which is a terrible idea, but it looks cool as hell.


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by Pargar-theGreat on Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:03 pm

    Looks good to me. You'll have to move quickly, since your weapons won't be very strong. But, when you parry someone, it is really going to hurt. Consider an estoc too. Even though it's critical damage is lower, it still parries and BS for higher damage than the Bandit's knife. It also has a great moveset. Rapier is the best for BS/riposte damage, but it is only slightly higher than the Estoc and its moveset isn't as good.

    @ reim this bs info is this without hornets ring i seem to never get more damage with my estocs and rapiers than i do my bandits. i feel like i'm doing something wrong how much help even at +14 the damage


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:01 pm

    Pagar - let's meet and test your hypothesis. Let's use different armor. IIRC, piercing weapons do better against hard armor, knives do better against soft armor. Let's test both weapons, both armor types. I can bring the equipment. I would really be interested to know the results.


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by Pargar-theGreat on Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:36 am

    me too cause i always be owned by rapiers, and since i've never +15 a rapier i didn't know if a slab would up it enough damage wise, while also not making me depressed for using a slab lol


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by BLA1NE on Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:59 am

    @OP

    Just want to interject something: if you want to focus on invasions, rather than duels, I'd recommend a much lower SL. 120 is for duels; outside the Kiln, you won't be able to invade consistently in many places at that level.

    I'd recommend lowering your level this way:
    - Lose the Str if you don't need it! You can beat PvE with your PvP weapons.
    - Swap out Ring of FaP in favor of Havel's Ring, so you can cut down End
    - Cut down Dex. If you want, you could go base Dex for your weapon and go Elemental upgrade, which will greatly reduce your SL.

    If you're not dead-set on that armor, too, you can save weight and be at the same poise level, which will reduce your End requirements further (at 25% weight, depending on the rings you wear, 1 lbs difference costs you 3-4 points in End). You'll have a bit less defense though. Anyways, consider it. Changing both Black Iron pieces for Havel's Gloves and Dark Leggings will save you a bit of weight. You could save more, but you'd have to change your helm...

    And: no need to wear a mask! Honestly there's no reason not to, but I just don't. I wouldn't judge if you did, though.

    Just a few things to consider!


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by Boltz on Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:57 am

    Ok so I finished the build

    It all looks the same, I bumped vit to 45 and dex to 50 (My own tastes,don't mind if it's not "optimal".)
    Was tempted to grab 16 str to 1h the lifehunt but ehhh, I prefer it 2hand. And i can 1h the Great scythe so w/e.

    I swapped the RoF for darkwood and changed the chest to dark armor (reppin my cov and it just looks great with my armor/weapon loadout)
    Bit extra poise doesnt hurt.

    So now its effectively 2 builds in one.

    When dueling I rock the lifehunt with bloodbite or wolf ring and a grass crest on my back.

    When Killing farmers I go with a bandits (chaos lightning or +15) and a heater with hornets. And swap spells for hidden body and chameleon.

    Spells I'm using 2 copies of poison mist, 1 of acid surge and one great combustion.

    Anyone got tips for scythes or the lifehunt in general? I tend to do better with the wolf ring since everyone and their mother uses a great weapon but also put myself at a muuch much higher bleed risk. Is the bloodbite needed you think? Ive only bled myself like once or twice so far without it.



    Also for acid surge, it really doesn't seem to do much? Ive had people stand in both clouds attacking my shield and such and no weapon swaps or breaks, not even against katanas....Think im gonna change surge to fire tempest maybe.
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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by lextune on Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:34 pm

    Going above 45 in dex seems like a little bit of a waste, high enough for scaling, and the max for casting speed. But whatever.

    As for Fire Tempest, you won't find a bigger fan of it than me, so I say go for it. happy


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by Chumgeyser on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:33 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:@OP

    Just want to interject something: if you want to focus on invasions, rather than duels, I'd recommend a much lower SL. 120 is for duels; outside the Kiln, you won't be able to invade consistently in many places at that level.

    What level would you recommend we stop at to get the most out of PvP?
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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by BLA1NE on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:47 pm

    I consider PvP in 2 different ways:

    - Invading
    - Dueling

    If you want to invade, it depends on the area. Can be anywhere between 30-90 (30 for areas around Sen's, 90 for Painted World and Duke's).

    If you want to duel, then it's 120. Since the Kiln has become so terrible for getting duels now, though, people looking for duels have migrated to various other locations. You can invade in many places at SL120 (Kiln, Burg, Duke's, Demon Ruins, etc.), it just won't be as frequent.


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    Re: Advice on dex build

    Post by Chumgeyser on Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:13 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:I consider PvP in 2 different ways:

    - Invading
    - Dueling

    If you want to invade, it depends on the area. Can be anywhere between 30-90 (30 for areas around Sen's, 90 for Painted World and Duke's).

    If you want to duel, then it's 120. Since the Kiln has become so terrible for getting duels now, though, people looking for duels have migrated to various other locations. You can invade in many places at SL120 (Kiln, Burg, Duke's, Demon Ruins, etc.), it just won't be as frequent.

    Thanks! Very helpful cheers

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