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    WTH is the point of a quality build..

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    • Post n°1

    WTH is the point of a quality build.. Empty WTH is the point of a quality build..

    Post by Glutebrah Tue May 14, 2013 10:04 pm

    i just came to a realization.. what is the point of a 27/40 build??

    Straight swords:
    Balder Side Sword (Dex weapon) - 390 1handed, 399 2handed
    Sunlight straight sword (C/C)- 381 damage, 418 2handed (slower)

    Polearms:
    Scythe (Dex weapon) - 504 1 handed, 519 2handed
    Gargoyles Halberd - 478 1 handed, 518 2handed
    Halberd - 485 1 handed, 521 2 handed
    Lycerne - 485 1 handed, 521 2handed

    Great Swords:
    ManSerpent GS (str weapon) - 521 2 handed, 436 1 handed
    Claymore - 524 2 handed, 478 1 handed

    so with the exception of Great Swords 1 handing... there really is no point to doing a Quality build and using duel stat scaling weapons.. when the ones in that weapon class that are primarily focused on 1 stat is far better..

    i was going to make a quality build.. but what is the point?
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    • Post n°2

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    Post by Dibsville Tue May 14, 2013 10:07 pm

    For me, variety.
    I don't know why people make quality builds otherwise. I couldn't care less about my AR.
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    • Post n°3

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    Post by SirArchmage Tue May 14, 2013 10:08 pm

    Just be like me and burn everything alive with pyromancy and chaos weapons. No stats required.
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    • Post n°4

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    Post by Glutebrah Tue May 14, 2013 10:09 pm

    SirArchmage wrote:Just be like me and burn everything alive with pyromancy and chaos weapons. No stats required.

    check out my SL100 Pyro build in my sig.. he burns it all lol
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    • Post n°5

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    Post by Glutebrah Tue May 14, 2013 10:10 pm

    Dibsville wrote:For me, variety.
    I don't know why people make quality builds otherwise. I couldn't care less about my AR.

    true but you make a pure dex build, and you have access to every weapon class except Ultra Great swords, and Great hammers/axes.

    and the weapons would be "superior" to the duel scaling ones in the same class
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    • Post n°6

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    Post by SirArchmage Tue May 14, 2013 10:15 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:
    SirArchmage wrote:Just be like me and burn everything alive with pyromancy and chaos weapons. No stats required.

    check out my SL100 Pyro build in my sig.. he burns it all lol
    Now, if that character had 45 Dex on it instead of all that health and endurance, than you could very, very much annoy some people. All those pyromancies at that fast a speed......Definitely need to make a character like that.
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    • Post n°7

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    Post by Dibsville Tue May 14, 2013 10:19 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:For me, variety.
    I don't know why people make quality builds otherwise. I couldn't care less about my AR.

    true but you make a pure dex build, and you have access to every weapon class except Ultra Great swords, and Great hammers/axes.

    and the weapons would be "superior" to the duel scaling ones in the same class
    Well, that's different. I answered your question of why I make a quality build, it's so that I can use every weapon. DEX builds were made because those weapons excel with it. Besides, the only reason I even make DEX builds is so I can use those weapons to their full extent.
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    • Post n°8

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    Post by lordgodofhell Tue May 14, 2013 10:21 pm

    I have always seen quality builds as an intentional waste of points in order to feel better while dueling. It follows the same logic of people with high dex and no slots, or the guy using the moonlight greatsword with no slots.

    I prefer either running a max dex of 45, or a max dex of 9.
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    • Post n°9

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    Post by Dibsville Tue May 14, 2013 10:22 pm

    lordgodofhell wrote:I have always seen quality builds as an intentional waste of points in order to feel better while dueling. It follows the same logic of people with high dex and no slots, or the guy using the moonlight greatsword with no slots.

    I prefer either running a max dex of 45, or a max dex of 9.
    I've done this before
    Where would the points go, more DEX? Shrug
    Vitality sure, but I don't see any reason to go past... 50. with RoFaP or 73 without it. Shrug
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    • Post n°10

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    Post by Ghadis_God Tue May 14, 2013 11:29 pm

    Best Q build is 40/40, and it beats out Dex in damage. Clay has a far superior moveset to MSGS, it lets you use the other straight swords that aren't cheap as hell like the BSS is, Q lets you use the Zwei and Greatsword, the Halberd (far superior to the other polearms) and the Murakumo, which requires a Q build just to use +15. The WP is also a Q weapon, and even primarily Dex scaling weapons get a boost if they have a D or E in Str, like the Scythe and Flamberge. Also things like the Demon's and Winged Spear are stronger as Q.

    In other words, compare the damage of the Scythe at 16/40 with the damage of the Halberd at 40/40. There's the difference.
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    • Post n°11

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    Post by CrackSouls Tue May 14, 2013 11:31 pm

    I am currently making my first quality SL100. I have made a quality SL120 before most patches and ended up hating it. I'm hoping to like the new one.

    For me, it's the weapons. I love the Halberd. Only way I can make it do decent damage, however, is to 2-hand it with 27STR and 40DEX. Maybe I'll end up disliking this new build, but at least I'm trying it.
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    • Post n°12

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    Post by Dibsville Tue May 14, 2013 11:32 pm

    Ghadis_God wrote:Best Q build is 40/40, and it beats out Dex in damage. Clay has a far superior moveset to MSGS, it lets you use the other straight swords that aren't cheap as hell like the BSS is, Q lets you use the Zwei and Greatsword, the Halberd (far superior to the other polearms) and the Murakumo, which requires a Q build just to use +15. The WP is also a Q weapon, and even primarily Dex scaling weapons get a boost if they have a D or E in Str, like the Scythe and Flamberge. Also things like the Demon's and Winged Spear are stronger as Q.
    This is really the only quality type build I ever make.
    Oh... and Balder Side Sword is underpowered compared to the Broadsword. Leo Ring ain't got nothing on extra stamina damage.
    Halberd best weapon.
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    • Post n°13

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    Post by Ghadis_God Tue May 14, 2013 11:58 pm

    No weapon causes stamina damage, unless you mean on a shield and that's just begging to get parried with a straight sword. The BSS is OP because it can hit for 500's with an r2, for speed range and weight that shouldn't be possible.
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    • Post n°14

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    Post by Dibsville Tue May 14, 2013 11:59 pm

    I fight unlocked. If someone tries to parry me it's going to be a partial 95% of the time, in which case I'll just punish.
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    • Post n°15

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    Post by Animaaal Wed May 15, 2013 12:08 am

    Dibsville wrote:...Leo Ring ain't got nothing on extra stamina damage...

    The Leo Ring has something on it imo. Its meant for counterstrikes which usually means your opponent's stamina is sidestepped completely in some cases, and even poise. Heck, just use the Leo with a low poise Halberd build.

    The Leo Ring also goes well with a Demon's Spear "Q" and a Claymore "Q" and even a Washing Pole "Q"

    Quality builds help you maximize the Composite Bow, which can also be graced with the Leo "the Great" Ring lol.

    You can also access the Black Knight Shield and hotswap to the Crest Shield.

    But I dont think quality builds are as versatile as dex builds, but is any build really?
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    • Post n°16

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    Post by Dibsville Wed May 15, 2013 12:12 am

    Animaaal wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:...Leo Ring ain't got nothing on extra stamina damage...

    The Leo Ring has something on it imo. Its meant for counterstrikes which usually means your opponent's stamina is sidestepped completely in some cases, and even poise. Heck, just use the Leo with a low poise Halberd build.

    The Leo Ring also goes well with a Demon's Spear "Q" and a Claymore "Q" and even a Washing Pole "Q"

    Quality builds help you maximize the Composite Bow, which can also be graced with the Leo "the Great" Ring lol.

    You can also access the Black Knight Shield and hotswap to the Crest Shield.

    But I dont think quality builds are as versatile as dex builds, but is any build really?
    I use the Leo on most of my builds, so I know its potential. The Halberd is my favourite weapon, I've used it with pretty much every poise imaginable.

    I know the limits of the Leo Ring compared to the extra stamina damage though. If the Longsword's 2H R2 had the extra damage, I'd never use Broadsword again, but unfortunately it doesn't. I've found more uses for the stamina damage than the 40% extra damage that may or may not put me at risk of taking a hit.

    Also, any build is effective, it all depends on the skill and playstyle of the player.
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    • Post n°17

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    Post by Animaaal Wed May 15, 2013 12:44 am

    I guess you saying you use Leo on most your builds is all I really needed to hear I suppose, I'm just a little confused. Shrug

    I dont understand why you're comparing draining someone's stamina while they're blocking to using the Leo Ring is all. They're 2 completely different playstyles.

    The Leo Ring has got a little "something" on, well, everything lol. It's a great ring, which you kinda said.

    Anyway, I think a buffed Washing Pole as a "Q" build with the Leo Ring is one of the most powerful ways to play a katana. I think an Uchi build is more preferable in a lot of cases, unless you're good at exploiting the crazy phantom damage from a buffed WP I suppose.

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    • Post n°18

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    Post by Dibsville Wed May 15, 2013 12:48 am

    I didn't compare the Leo Ring and the stamina drain, I contrasted their effectiveness and how often I used one over the other. While the Leo Ring has its perks, stamina drain is much more useful in random invasions.

    I would agree a buffed WP with Leo Ring is strong, especially with that range. :shock: Even on my quality builds I prefer the Uchi... there's just something about the smaller swords that always catch my attention. It just seems like it's easier to control.
    I need to try some unlocked WP spam, it would be fun to see people just running in a circle with their shield down when all of a sudden I pull out my WP and shank them. Shrug
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    • Post n°19

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    Post by Rynn Wed May 15, 2013 12:49 am

    Quality is amazing, even on weapons generally considered 'pure dex', like the gold tracer or rapiers. The extra damage and weapon variety really matters.
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    • Post n°20

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    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard Wed May 15, 2013 12:56 am

    it makes certain weapon beastly, ie the claymore, warpick, zweihander, gravelord sword, all bows, pike, washingpole, shotel (needs every scrap of ar it can get), battleaxe,gargoyle tail axe, demons spear,flamberge, server and most halberds.
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    • Post n°21

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    Post by Animaaal Wed May 15, 2013 12:57 am

    Dibsville wrote:...I didn't compare the Leo Ring and the stamina drain, I contrasted their effectiveness and how often I used one over the other....

    Oh, I didnt understand the "Leo aint got nothin on stamina drain" thing then, my fault.

    I was just thinking if your opponent didn't block much, and it became a "flipping quick stab" contest, that the Leo build would have a clear advantage over a build designed to drain stamina on a turtler is all, and I didn't quite understand what that had to do with quality builds, which like Rynn and Sparkly said, can be amazing.
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    • Post n°22

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    Post by Dibsville Wed May 15, 2013 1:03 am

    Animaaal wrote:
    Dibsville wrote:...I didn't compare the Leo Ring and the stamina drain, I contrasted their effectiveness and how often I used one over the other....

    Oh, I didnt understand the "Leo aint got nothin on stamina drain" thing then, my fault.

    I was just thinking if your opponent didn't block much, and it became a "flipping quick stab" contest, that the Leo build would have a clear advantage over a build designed to drain stamina on a turtler is all, and I didn't quite understand what that had to do with quality builds, which like Rynn and Sparkly said, can be amazing.
    But, more people turtle than dodge around, which is why the stamina drain is more effective overall.
    In general terms, the Leo's advantages outweigh the stamina drain, but it also has cons that make it worse, such as the fact that you are left open when trying to get the counter as well as using up a ring slot.

    IMO; If I were doing random invasions, I'd prefer the Broadsword over the BSS + Leo.
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    • Post n°23

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    Post by Rynn Wed May 15, 2013 1:06 am

    The value of a leo ring dramatically decreases the higher the skill of your opponent.

    The value of Stamina drain is either 100% or 0%, depending on if your opponent every blocks.

    I have a build that uses the Broadsword when my opponent has a shield, and the leo ring + BSS combo against any other opponent, because the situations where the two rings are useful are almost exactly opposite of each other in behavior.
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    • Post n°24

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    Post by LunarFog Wed May 15, 2013 1:08 am

    ...God, I f***ing love your face Glute
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    Post by SirArchmage Wed May 15, 2013 1:16 am

    LunarFog wrote:...God, I f***ing love your face Glute
    His face gives me nightmares. And this is coming from a person with a murderous bisexual vampire as an avatar.
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