Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

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    Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:37 am

    I’ve changed this posting to flow a little bit better and show some evolution in my ideas from when I originally posted it. =)

    The first character we meet in the game is Oscar of Astora. He gives us our Estus Flask and hooks us up with a key that helps us progress. Astora seems to be a very prominent fixture in the Dark Souls story. So where is Astora and why do we meet so many characters from that land?

    I speculate that: The Undead Parish, Undead Burg (lower and upper), Undead Church, the great bridge, and Firelink Shrine all used to be called Astora. For now let’s go back to what Oscar tells us. In his story that is passed down from his family Oscar says:

    There is an old saying in my family… Thou who art Undead, art chosen… In thine exodus from the Undead Asylum, maketh pilgrimage to the land of Ancient Lords… When thou ringeth the Bell of Awakening, the fate of the Undead thou shalt know. Well, now you know… And I can die with hope in my heart…

    Notice the use of the word exodus. Exodus means a going out; departure, emigrate. However, it is key to note that exodus usually refers to a large number of people. This is why I believe that Oscar only refers to one Bell of Awakening. He sees the one at the Undead Church as common knowledge of the people and is making reference to the Bell in Qualag’s Domain.

    I also believe that the people of Astora were a nation that served the gods, more specifically Gwyn. Sen’s Fortress original intention was to act as a proving ground for knights of Astora (any nation but more specifically Astora) to become members of Gwyn’s Silver Knights and transcend their humanity. This is why we see Silver Knight statues all in Sen’s looking as if they are offering weapons. However, when the Undead “plague” began to spread all of the gates to Anor Londo were sealed. Prince Ricard item description seems to help me explain Sen’s fortress being a proving grounds for knights to become Silver Knights.

    Ricard’s Rapier: A rapier with intricate decorations. Chosen weapon of the infamous Undead Prince Ricard. Ricard’s exploits are told in monomyth. He was born into royalty, but wandered the lands in a fateful ill-conceived journey. He became Undead, and disappeared up North.

    The fact it specifically says he “was born into royalty” makes me want to speculate on this monomyth… as in… Poor Prince Ricard, in an attempt to prove himself to his father attempted to locate one of the last of the Anicent Dragons. During his journey he became Undead, and in an attempt to cleanse himself of his Undead curse, ventured into Sen’s Fortress to prove himself worthy to be a true servant of Gywn. However, his title could not protect him and his skills were not enough. He hasn’t been seen since..

    This is why he is referred to as Undead Prince Ricard in legend.

    To continue, in the intro we see the Ash Maiden (of Firelink Shrine) kneeling over the body of a Knight. She is in the graveyard right next to Firelink Shrine. We know she is of Astora and in the intro this is before she was maimed seeing as she seems to have moved over there just fine. Also, in this same graveyard we find another item related to Astora, Binoculars. In addition, we know that the most high-ranking Astoraians wear the Elite Knight set, and it is decorated with the blue tabard. If we read the description of the starter Knights set we can extrapolate and speculate that it originated in Astora..

    Knights Set: Helm of a lower-rank knight. Despite the thin metal used, the grooved texture gives it added protection.

    Elite Knight Set: Helm of a nameless knight, perhaps an elite knight of Astora. Although he was loath to give up on his Undead mission, he perished at the Undead Asylum, and went Hollow.

    Now seeing these 2 side by side we don’t get much from it because the Elite Knight Set focuses on Oscar. So let’s look at some more of his gear..

    Crest Shield: Shield of a nameless knight, likely a high-ranked knight of Astora. One of the enchanted blue shields. The Crest Shield greatly reduces magic damage.

    So here it talks about high-ranking why the Knight Set talks about lower-ranking.. but this isn’t enough to prove anything so look at the visual clues on the armors. Other than the tabard missing and the helm being open, these sets are visually the same..

    It would also seem that Astora uses blue in their nation’s colors. In the graveyard we also find the Caduceus Round Shield.

    Caduceus Round Shield: Round wooden shield crafted in Lordran. Decorated by an ancient blue Caduceus. The giant trees in Lordran are distant offspring of the great stone archtrees. This shield inherits their properties, and the wood greatly reduces magic damage.

    Blue and reduces magic damage and found in the same graveyard which I speculate used to be part of Astora. Its properties being so similar to that of the Crest Shield one could say Astora used to use it as well? In addition the picture on the Crest Shield to me seems very tree like. This is a hint at what I was saying above about Astora being servants of Gwyn. There is another Caduceus Shield, a Kite Shield. The only NPC to sell this shield is Andre of Astora, and Warriors of the Way of the White carry this shield. The Way of the White serves Gywns uncle All Father Loyd. In addition, Petrus carries a Knight Shield…

    Knight Shield: This medium metal shield is elegantly carved and painted. Although it is thought to have been used by ancient knights of nobility, its defense capabilities are similar to other shields.

    If we believe the connection of the Knight Set with Astora we could also say that this shield would have once belonged to them as well. However, this shield is red and blue? The Caduceus Round Shield we find in the graveyard isn’t the only round shield we can collect in this area.

    Red and White Round Shield: Round wooden shield crafted in Lordran featuring an impressive red and white design. The giant trees in Lordran are distant offspring of the great stone archtrees. This shield inherits their properties, and the wood greatly reduces magic damage.

    These 2 shields descriptions are almost identical. In ancient times was Astora a nation of Red and Blue? Was there a civil war in which Astora fought their brothers in arms? Red vs. Blue? Or are the colors of Thorolund Red and this show more of a connection between Astora and the WoW.. The design on the Knight Shield seems to have a dragon on a sword. We know Astora fought the dragons as they have items that help them defend themselves from them. I.E. the Dragon Crest Shield..

    Dragon Crest Shield: Shield of a nameless knight, likely a high-ranked knight of Astora. One of the enchanted blue shield. The Dragon Crest Shield greatly reduces fire damage.

    Maybe there is a hint in the designs of the other shields… One group (Astora) seems to have gravitated to the side of the Serpents, more than likely Frampt with their association with the WoW and Gywn. While the other seem to not exist anymore and are now servants of Nito were they possibly attempting to serve the dragons?Or is just the color or Thourlund and shows their union.. Also, Nito’s areas are places that the Way of White sends there members on pilgrimage….

    In addition, we can see from Astorias Straight Sword that they used blessed weapons. This could be due to them being associated with the WoW.

    Astoras Straight Sword: Straight sword of an unknown knight, likely one of Astora’s superiors. High-quality weapon with a powerful blessing.

    We can also assume that they fought the creatures of the Abyss from the Ring of the Evil Eye.

    Ring of the Evil Eye: According to legend, this ring contains the spirit of the evil eye, a dark beast which assaulted Astora. The strength of the evil eye does not waver, and HP is absorbed from fallen enemies.

    So… from above we know.. Astora: Uses blue either as the colors of their nation, they use holy/blessed weapons, their shields have good defense against magic, they are servants of Lord Gywn, they use Sen’s Fortress as a proving ground to become transcended from their humanity and become members of the Silver Knights, they fight creatures of the abyss/dark beasts.

    Does any of this sound familiar? I’ll put in some item descriptions to help!

    Armor of Artorias the Abysswalker: One of Gwyn’s four knights. The death of the armor’s owner can be surmised from the corrosive Dark of the Abyss, and the tattered azure-blue cape, once a symbol of pride and glory.

    Greatsword of Artorias: Sword born from the soul of the great grey wolf Sif, guardian of the grave of the Abysswalker Knight Artorias. Sir Artorias hunted the Darkwraiths, and his sword strikes harder against dark servants.

    Cleansing Greatshield: The steel greatshield used by the Knight who succumbed to the Abyss. Artorias, deeply scarred by the abyss, used this to form a barrier to protect his compatriot Sif. Although this drained the shield, its magic defense remains high.

    To finish this up, the cover art on the U.S. box… Before we saw pictures of Artorias a lot of people believed it to be him. The helm is absolutely that of the Elite Knight Set but the armor seems a little bit different.. Could this have been Artorias of Astora’s original Armor? His armor now is a Silver Knight set that has been modified to fit his style and position in the 4 Knights.

    As for Solaire being of Astora… he seems to be actively time traveling or shifting between worlds and his armor is so different when compared to the other examples of Astora gear we have… Long story short, I think he’s a liar =)


    Last edited by Deathsitexxi on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:34 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:56 am

    Sorry I have lost the will to read large posts but I fdid get through some of it.
    You are wrong about Sens. The silver knights existed before Astora did, as they fought in the dragon war underneath the earth. They are also notibly not human, as shown by them still existing in anor londo (Note there are some silver knights who do not disappear with gwynevere ergo they are not illusions). Sens was a proving ground to get to anor londo. Thats why you find balder knights who attempted it as well as Tarkus and the Berenike knights who attepted it.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Rarayn on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:21 am

    More or less all the areas your visit in-game are part of or closely tied to what seems to be one huge city. Astora seems like a pretty big deal; more like a major independent kingdom in the outside world than a minor part of a huge city.

    Solaire's dialogue more or less confirms the independent and separate status of Astora:
    "I am Solaire of Astora, an adherent to the Lord of Sunlight. Now that I am Undead, I have come to this great land, the birthplace of Lord Gwyn, to seek my very own sun!"

    He is of Astora, yet he has come *to* "this great land"

    There are only undead in Lordran. People from the outside world who has the Darksign are supposedly hunted by Lloyd's clerics and either captured and sent to the Undead Asylum to the North, or killed.

    The description of Ricard's Rapier, the favoured weapon of someone who also seems to be from Astora judging from his armour, also mentions that Prince Ricard became undead "on an ill-conceived journey" and that he "disappeared up North"

    From this we can surmise that Lordran is probably a distant land, and that it's somewhere north of Astora.
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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Shkar on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:10 am

    Rarayn wrote:More or less all the areas your visit in-game are part of or closely tied to what seems to be one huge city. Astora seems like a pretty big deal; more like a major independent kingdom in the outside world than a minor part of a huge city.

    Solaire's dialogue more or less confirms the independent and separate status of Astora:
    "I am Solaire of Astora, an adherent to the Lord of Sunlight. Now that I am Undead, I have come to this great land, the birthplace of Lord Gwyn, to seek my very own sun!"

    He is of Astora, yet he has come *to* "this great land"

    There are only undead in Lordran. People from the outside world who has the Darksign are supposedly hunted by Lloyd's clerics and either captured and sent to the Undead Asylum to the North, or killed.

    The description of Ricard's Rapier, the favoured weapon of someone who also seems to be from Astora judging from his armour, also mentions that Prince Ricard became undead "on an ill-conceived journey" and that he "disappeared up North"

    From this we can surmise that Lordran is probably a distant land, and that it's somewhere north of Astora.

    Overruled. Not EVERYONE is undead. When you kill Andre he stays dead, and his boy doesn't fade away. It just...sits there. Forever.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Rarayn on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:13 am

    Shkar wrote:
    Rarayn wrote:More or less all the areas your visit in-game are part of or closely tied to what seems to be one huge city. Astora seems like a pretty big deal; more like a major independent kingdom in the outside world than a minor part of a huge city.

    Solaire's dialogue more or less confirms the independent and separate status of Astora:
    "I am Solaire of Astora, an adherent to the Lord of Sunlight. Now that I am Undead, I have come to this great land, the birthplace of Lord Gwyn, to seek my very own sun!"

    He is of Astora, yet he has come *to* "this great land"

    There are only undead in Lordran. People from the outside world who has the Darksign are supposedly hunted by Lloyd's clerics and either captured and sent to the Undead Asylum to the North, or killed.

    The description of Ricard's Rapier, the favoured weapon of someone who also seems to be from Astora judging from his armour, also mentions that Prince Ricard became undead "on an ill-conceived journey" and that he "disappeared up North"

    From this we can surmise that Lordran is probably a distant land, and that it's somewhere north of Astora.

    Overruled. Not EVERYONE is undead. When you kill Andre he stays dead, and his boy doesn't fade away. It just...sits there. Forever.

    ...THIS IMPLIES THAT SOMEONE KILLED ANDRE TO TEST THIS. YOU MONSTERS. sad

    But yes, good point. I guess it would be better to say that *most* of the inhabitants of Lordran are undead, or at the very least not "alive" in the sense we know the term. Does Andre become like the other already dead blacksmiths when killed, by any chance?
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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:17 am

    Nope. You just get to stare at his ragdoll body for the rest of the playthrough.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Shkar on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:17 am

    Rarayn wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    Rarayn wrote:More or less all the areas your visit in-game are part of or closely tied to what seems to be one huge city. Astora seems like a pretty big deal; more like a major independent kingdom in the outside world than a minor part of a huge city.

    Solaire's dialogue more or less confirms the independent and separate status of Astora:
    "I am Solaire of Astora, an adherent to the Lord of Sunlight. Now that I am Undead, I have come to this great land, the birthplace of Lord Gwyn, to seek my very own sun!"

    He is of Astora, yet he has come *to* "this great land"

    There are only undead in Lordran. People from the outside world who has the Darksign are supposedly hunted by Lloyd's clerics and either captured and sent to the Undead Asylum to the North, or killed.

    The description of Ricard's Rapier, the favoured weapon of someone who also seems to be from Astora judging from his armour, also mentions that Prince Ricard became undead "on an ill-conceived journey" and that he "disappeared up North"

    From this we can surmise that Lordran is probably a distant land, and that it's somewhere north of Astora.

    Overruled. Not EVERYONE is undead. When you kill Andre he stays dead, and his boy doesn't fade away. It just...sits there. Forever.

    ...THIS IMPLIES THAT SOMEONE KILLED ANDRE TO TEST THIS. YOU MONSTERS. sad

    But yes, good point. I guess it would be better to say that *most* of the inhabitants of Lordran are undead, or at the very least not "alive" in the sense we know the term. Does Andre become like the other already dead blacksmiths when killed, by any chance?

    Nah, his body just kind of resets to his spawn point when the area is loaded, and he ragdolls like normal. And as I love pointing out, the undead ARE alive. They have a functioning heart, brain, and lungs. I'm not sure what else you could want.

    EDIT: You know, they missed a good chance to have a secret be unlocked by moving Andres dead body to a specific area. Damn idea changes limiting time!


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:19 am

    Skin?


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Shkar on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:19 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Skin?

    They HAVE skin! They're just...gaunt...


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:24 am

    Rarayn wrote:More or less all the areas your visit in-game are part of or closely tied to what seems to be one huge city. Astora seems like a pretty big deal; more like a major independent kingdom in the outside world than a minor part of a huge city.

    Solaire's dialogue more or less confirms the independent and separate status of Astora:
    "I am Solaire of Astora, an adherent to the Lord of Sunlight. Now that I am Undead, I have come to this great land, the birthplace of Lord Gwyn, to seek my very own sun!"

    He is of Astora, yet he has come *to* "this great land"

    There are only undead in Lordran. People from the outside world who has the Darksign are supposedly hunted by Lloyd's clerics and either captured and sent to the Undead Asylum to the North, or killed.

    The description of Ricard's Rapier, the favoured weapon of someone who also seems to be from Astora judging from his armour, also mentions that Prince Ricard became undead "on an ill-conceived journey" and that he "disappeared up North"

    From this we can surmise that Lordran is probably a distant land, and that it's somewhere north of Astora.



    The two people I purposely left out of my analysis you
    mentioned lol!


    I honestly wanted to leave out Solaire because of the nature
    of his dialogue and character. For one he seems to be actively time traveling
    as compare to someone like Andre. For example, Solaire is of Astora and yet his
    armor is so different compared to the other exampes of Astora gear we have. In addition,
    I’ve also always assumed Lordran is similar to Denver, Colorado. Its borders
    keep expanding until everything is Lordran. What was once Astora would be
    considered Lordran.


    I didn’t want to speak on Ricard because of the description
    of his weapon….


    ”A rapier with intricate
    decorations. Chosen weapon of the famous Undead Prince Ricard. Ricard's
    exploits are told in a monomyth."

    "He was born into royalty, but wandered
    the lands in a fateful ill-conceived journey. He became Undead and disappeared
    up North."



    Notice how it says his exploits are told in monomyth. During my
    researching of Astora I found some pretty cool things about monomyths…. But ..
    I would have had to go into much heavier speculation to explain it, and I just
    couldn’t back it up lol.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Rarayn on Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:57 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Nope. You just get to stare at his ragdoll body for the rest of the playthrough.
    ...D:

    Shkar wrote:Nah, his body just kind of resets to his spawn point when the area is
    loaded, and he ragdolls like normal. And as I love pointing out, the
    undead ARE alive. They have a functioning heart, brain, and lungs. I'm
    not sure what else you could want.

    EDIT: You know, they missed a
    good chance to have a secret be unlocked by moving Andres dead body to a
    specific area. Damn idea changes limiting time!
    The "functioning brain" part is arguable, judging by how many inhabitants of Lordran are eager to jump off cliffs whenever they are presented with the opportunity to do so. silly

    Seriously though, I never thought about it like that before. They're always referred to as "undead" in-game, so I assumed that was indeed that they were.

    Andre's body was probably intentionally left that way to make players feel eternally guilty for murdering him. : <

    Deathsitexxi wrote:The two people I purposely left out of my analysis you
    mentioned lol!


    I honestly wanted to leave out Solaire because of the nature
    of his dialogue and character. For one he seems to be actively time traveling
    as compare to someone like Andre. For example, Solaire is of Astora and yet his
    armor is so different compared to the other exampes of Astora gear we have. In addition,
    I’ve also always assumed Lordran is similar to Denver, Colorado. Its borders
    keep expanding until everything is Lordran. What was once Astora would be
    considered Lordran.


    I didn’t want to speak on Ricard because of the description
    of his weapon….


    ”A rapier with intricate
    decorations. Chosen weapon of the famous Undead Prince Ricard. Ricard's
    exploits are told in a monomyth."

    "He was born into royalty, but wandered
    the lands in a fateful ill-conceived journey. He became Undead and disappeared
    up North."



    Notice how it says his exploits are told in monomyth. During my
    researching of Astora I found some pretty cool things about monomyths…. But ..
    I would have had to go into much heavier speculation to explain it, and I just
    couldn’t back it up lol.


    Hm, good point on both accounts. I personally disagree with Astora now being part of Lordran, though I have to real evidence to back that claim up if you disregard the lore surrounding Solaire and Ricard. Not exactly a lot of information about the other countries, dead or alive, available in-game.
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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Shkar on Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:25 am

    Hm, if I actually thought there was a right or wrong answer, I would probably have a post talking about how, in literature, the right answer is typically the simplest nswer that isn't contradicted by anything.

    Thankfully, the lore is too light for there to be a right answer, so it doesn't really matter happy


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:02 am

    In response to your first speculation.....

    Lordran is part of one large world. The areas mentioned in the game do not have to be within its borders.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:12 am

    Agreed on all accounts really guys. The lore is really hard to “prove”
    esp when you are speculating and there so many factors to take into account.
    However, that is why I wanted to create the Analysis series, I figure one of
    you guys, that been here a while, either have a thread that helps prove or
    completely disprove what I’m saying =). Unfortunately I think a lot of my
    anaylsis series will end with the “not enough
    evidence to support that” claim. However, in my searching, I thought the Caduceus
    Shield discovery was pretty big (and no not that speculation that it
    used to belong to Astora). I didn’t expound on it however…. Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caduceus The most interesting
    part was the link to Ningishzida that I found here….. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningishzida


    Another interesting is that other than Solire (who could also be
    lieing) no one from Astora talks as if it’s a far away land, like the citizens/
    item descriptions of Carim, Balder, etc. Most interesting was their useage of
    the word monomyth with Ricard! Which when researched and speculated on could
    explain a few things. Anyways, thanks
    for the read and the discussion and I’ll have more Analysis Series coming soon
    =)


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:40 pm

    Yeh there's alot of holes in this, but I really like the idea of that area being Astora. I've given up on "facts" in dark souls a long time ago now I just enjoy the speculation and this one is boss big grin

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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:04 pm

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:In response to your first speculation.....

    Lordran is part of one large world. The areas mentioned in the game do not have to be within its borders.


    Forgot to mention this in my response earlier lol. In the
    same why that Oolacile is a lost kingdom of Lordran, so too could Astora be a
    lost kingdom. Now that’s not saying it is.. In my Analysis though I kept
    feeling as if it was… I could be wrong
    about the Location however, and there is really no way to prove any of it. You
    have a very valid point though.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:07 pm

    Knight Alundil wrote:Yeh there's alot of holes in this, but I really like the idea of that area being Astora. I've given up on "facts" in dark souls a long time ago now I just enjoy the speculation and this one is boss big grin

    Thank you for the kind words and your avatar makes me laugh every time I see it lol. .


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Shkar on Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:15 pm

    I always figured Lordran is like any other dark ages country and is full of earls and dukes (supported by the information on Carim). You have the capital, Anor Londo, ruled by the king, Gwyn, but the land is also divided into almost "city-states" each led by their own ruler who in turn is ruled by the king.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:22 pm

    Wasnt it mentioned in this thread someone pointing out Lordran is far to the north?


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:10 pm

    Which begs the question....FAR TO THE NORTH OF WHAT?????


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Sir Mandred on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:14 pm

    If we need to place Lordran geographically, its very hard to place it in any coherent way as its more of a "realm" and most item descriptions refer to the areas outside Lordran (or what could constitute the actual kingdom, much like with Boletaria being an entire peninsula but the country itself was considered to geographically exist within certain boundaries along the Twin Fangs) as the "outside world" it is obvious that travelers who enter the land or still live there are by majority undead pilgrims, while the rest are most likely adventurers and looters, similar to those whom pierced the veil into Boletaria.

    My theory is that before the Pandemonium, the land was considered a "land of giants" rather than a straight out a dwelling of the gods, pretty much everything in Lordran has been built on top of the Tomb Of Giants. Geographically this would land Lordran as among the northernmost kingdoms in the world of the Souls games.

    We know that geographically Boletaria is along a coastal peninsula, while Stonefang Tunnel stretches long distances along the coastal mountain sides all the way to southern territories (which are never mentioned), Latria is a neighbouring country to Boletaria, which would have to land it on either the west/east axis, in this case its impossible to discern in which direction the coast is, but considering the glimpse of the map that the Demon's Souls intro gives, the coastal line is located in the east, which would mean that Latria is west, Stonefang tunnel south, Shrine Of Storms in the east and swamp most likely somewhere in the boundaries of Boletarian borders.

    This leaves only one country towards North and thats mentioned as "Land Of The Giants", which most likely means that Boletaria is south of Lordran
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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Shkar on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:33 pm

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Which begs the question....FAR TO THE NORTH OF WHAT?????

    North of everything One could refer to Canada and Russia as the north, simply because they are north to just about everything. Much like how there is the "Middle East".


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:36 pm

    @Mandred I don't think you're gonna find a lot of support for you rDeS is the same as DkS theory among us older lore folks so make sure you make 2 theories. One using it and one not using it.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Sir Mandred on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:57 pm

    Well id rather not go by "theories" alone, just picking up info available in both games. Even if i would pick off only references and material in Dark Souls, there would still have to be a conclusion that atleast Latria's existence is noted, the fact that the game conviniently takes place in a land where the average size of creatures are out of proportion and NPC:s of this size referring to you as: "Human"is even more bizarre. Even if Demon's Souls didnt exist and we only went by visual imagery alone, you can come to a conclusion that at somepoint, and at sometime something went really, really wrong in the country. Oolacile was kind of the "last nail in the coffin" when it came to figuring out the larger scope of the story that, conviniently referenced in the first games manual to have gone through almost identical stages of decay as described there in.

    In this kind of case, its hard to "split up" the theory. Even if i pretended that Demon's Souls didnt exist, Dark Souls still shoves them into peoples faces about as subtly as an elephant in a porcelain shop
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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:03 pm

    "s. Even if i would pick off only references and material in Dark Souls, there would still have to be a conclusion that atleast Latria's existence is noted, "
    No it isnt, because Latria doesnt exist lol. For someone who hasnt played DeS but has heard a fair bit about it its easy to ignore that info and take DkS as an isolated world. For someone who has played both it would be harder, but you can still ignore it.


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