Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

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    Sir Mandred
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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Sir Mandred on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:26 pm

    Its been a recurring trend to apparently "see no evil, hear no evil or speak no evil" when it comes to estabilishing Dark Souls lore, its either a holy trinity of: "Hidetaka said its not a sequel", "Kaathe told the truth, Gwyn is the antagonist!" and "coherent storyline elements are references".

    I dont really understand the problem to be honest, if there are people who are not into the lore (or do not understand what particular things in the game reference), do we rather then create seperate theories for each person to experience the game at face value (like with the Hyrule Historia pretty much completely debunking the largest base of puritists and making them enter a massive spiral of denial) where one is "official" and one is "not canon"

    So which one is it? The things closer to fanfics or the things scavenged from ingame writing and story elements? I'm just trying to find the thin red line that's been ever so slowly (but surely) peeking from the cracks of the game.
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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Shkar on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:31 pm

    Sir Mandred wrote:Its been a recurring trend to apparently "see no evil, hear no evil or speak no evil" when it comes to estabilishing Dark Souls lore, its either a holy trinity of: "Hidetaka said its not a sequel", "Kaathe told the truth, Gwyn is the antagonist!" and "coherent storyline elements are references".

    I dont really understand the problem to be honest, if there are people who are not into the lore (or do not understand what particular things in the game reference), do we rather then create seperate theories for each person to experience the game at face value (like with the Hyrule Historia pretty much completely debunking the largest base of puritists and making them enter a massive spiral of denial) where one is "official" and one is "not canon"

    So which one is it? The things closer to fanfics or the things scavenged from ingame writing and story elements? I'm just trying to find the thin red line that's been ever so slowly (but surely) peeking from the cracks of the game.

    Understand that unlike the LoZ community, we are NEVER going to reach any kind of consensus. Believe me, I've been here preaching for months about how the darkwraiths are truly the bad guys and letting the flame die means the death of the world, but everyone still believes otherwise.

    I don't even think a single person has responded to my theory that the flame is the soul of the world, and I've posted it like 3 times.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:34 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:"s. Even if i would pick off only references and material in Dark Souls, there would still have to be a conclusion that atleast Latria's existence is noted, "
    No it isnt, because Latria doesnt exist lol. For someone who hasnt played DeS but has heard a fair bit about it its easy to ignore that info and take DkS as an isolated world. For someone who has played both it would be harder, but you can still ignore it.

    I think what Sir Mandred is talking about as a reference to the Tower
    of Latira in Dark Souls is Exiled King Jeremiah. While I haven’t seen any proof
    as him being the actual king that was exiled from Latria I can see that as plausible.
    The only thing that I believe disproves
    this is I always thought that the Old Monk was the King of Latira. However,
    while I have played Demon’s Souls many times my knowledge on its lore is very weak.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:40 pm

    My point was if you pretend DeS doesnt exist, then Latria doesnt exist. It doesnt matter what his theory was, if the game somethings in doesnt exist then the area doesnt exist.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:59 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Sir Mandred wrote:Its been a recurring trend to apparently "see no evil, hear no evil or speak no evil" when it comes to estabilishing Dark Souls lore, its either a holy trinity of: "Hidetaka said its not a sequel", "Kaathe told the truth, Gwyn is the antagonist!" and "coherent storyline elements are references".

    I dont really understand the problem to be honest, if there are people who are not into the lore (or do not understand what particular things in the game reference), do we rather then create seperate theories for each person to experience the game at face value (like with the Hyrule Historia pretty much completely debunking the largest base of puritists and making them enter a massive spiral of denial) where one is "official" and one is "not canon"

    So which one is it? The things closer to fanfics or the things scavenged from ingame writing and story elements? I'm just trying to find the thin red line that's been ever so slowly (but surely) peeking from the cracks of the game.

    Understand that unlike the LoZ community, we are NEVER going to reach any kind of consensus. Believe me, I've been here preaching for months about how the darkwraiths are truly the bad guys and letting the flame die means the death of the world, but everyone still believes otherwise.

    I don't even think a single person has responded to my theory that the flame is the soul of the world, and I've posted it like 3 times.


    You mentioned that in one of my threads a few days ago. I actually have
    an analysis going on it now, but it’s a lot of looking up item descriptions and
    it’s taking a little longer than I thought.. I will say, the more I look into
    it the more plausible your theory is looking…


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Shkar on Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:09 pm

    Deathsitexxi wrote:
    Shkar wrote:
    Sir Mandred wrote:Its been a recurring trend to apparently "see no evil, hear no evil or speak no evil" when it comes to estabilishing Dark Souls lore, its either a holy trinity of: "Hidetaka said its not a sequel", "Kaathe told the truth, Gwyn is the antagonist!" and "coherent storyline elements are references".

    I dont really understand the problem to be honest, if there are people who are not into the lore (or do not understand what particular things in the game reference), do we rather then create seperate theories for each person to experience the game at face value (like with the Hyrule Historia pretty much completely debunking the largest base of puritists and making them enter a massive spiral of denial) where one is "official" and one is "not canon"

    So which one is it? The things closer to fanfics or the things scavenged from ingame writing and story elements? I'm just trying to find the thin red line that's been ever so slowly (but surely) peeking from the cracks of the game.

    Understand that unlike the LoZ community, we are NEVER going to reach any kind of consensus. Believe me, I've been here preaching for months about how the darkwraiths are truly the bad guys and letting the flame die means the death of the world, but everyone still believes otherwise.

    I don't even think a single person has responded to my theory that the flame is the soul of the world, and I've posted it like 3 times.


    You mentioned that in one of my threads a few days ago. I actually have
    an analysis going on it now, but it’s a lot of looking up item descriptions and
    it’s taking a little longer than I thought.. I will say, the more I look into
    it the more plausible your theory is looking…

    Oh, thanks. I had mainly been using that as an example that even detailed, evidenced theories sometimes just get ignored, but its nice to know that someone else is thinking about it.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Astora Updated Orignal Post

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:50 pm

    From doing my other Analysis Series my ideas on this have gotten a little bit more polished. . I've updated the OP to show the evolution of my ideas. Thanks for reading and I hope you enjoy!


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