What makes split damage so bad exactly?

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    Dubscythe
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    What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by Dubscythe on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:12 am

    Just a simple question really.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:15 am

    Defense has diminishing returns against damage. So the higher your damage the less effected it is by defense.

    This means if you have two low damages they will go against the enemies two individual defense, this means these defenses won't have as great diminishing returns against these two low damages, thus blocking more. Whereas one strong damage would be blocked less, and can mean more damage although the base AR may be less.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by Dubscythe on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:23 am

    Buggy Virus wrote:Defense has diminishing returns against damage. So the higher your damage the less effected it is by defense.

    This means if you have two low damages they will go against the enemies two individual defense, this means these defenses won't have as great diminishing returns against these two low damages, thus blocking more. Whereas one strong damage would be blocked less, and can mean more damage although the base AR may be less.

    Ah I see, so that would explain why the GS of Artorias is hardly ever used. And why my Demon's Spear wasn't doing a good amount of damage.

    Does that end up affecting the Dragonslayer Spear a lot?


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:29 am

    Dubscythe wrote:
    Buggy Virus wrote:Defense has diminishing returns against damage. So the higher your damage the less effected it is by defense.

    This means if you have two low damages they will go against the enemies two individual defense, this means these defenses won't have as great diminishing returns against these two low damages, thus blocking more. Whereas one strong damage would be blocked less, and can mean more damage although the base AR may be less.

    Ah I see, so that would explain why the GS of Artorias is hardly ever used. And why my Demon's Spear wasn't doing a good amount of damage.

    Does that end up affecting the Dragonslayer Spear a lot?
    Nope. The normal attack is all physical. And the lightning damage is the "lightning spear" that comes out of the spear, and that scales with faith. But the physical scales with dex.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by Ecko on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:38 am

    JoeBroski09 wrote:Nope. The normal attack is all physical. And the lightning damage is the "lightning spear" that comes out of the spear, and that scales with faith. But the physical scales with dex.
    Are you sure about that? Whenever I use the dragonslayer spear it has a visual effect of lightning hitting the enemy.
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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:40 am

    Ecko wrote:
    JoeBroski09 wrote:Nope. The normal attack is all physical. And the lightning damage is the "lightning spear" that comes out of the spear, and that scales with faith. But the physical scales with dex.
    Are you sure about that? Whenever I use the dragonslayer spear it has a visual effect of lightning hitting the enemy.
    Idk where I read it. But I'll try to find it then link it here.

    EDIT: I guess I may have misread the wiki wrong. The normal attack my be both. But I do know that the physical damage scales with dex while the lightning scales with faith. The normal attack may have split damage, but it's still pretty high damage, especially considering that it scales.


    Last edited by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:42 am

    Check this post out. BLA1NE, myself, and Yesu did some weapon damage testing. We compared weapon's AR to actual damage output. BLA1NE explains it well.

    http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t4295-attack-rating-vs-real-damage-analysis-of-defense


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:46 am

    I JUST read that. Makes sense. And I'm sad that the only #'s we can get doesn't allow us to get a formula. Stupid hidden variables.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:06 am

    Yeah, we can only get generalities. I have the actual weapon damage spreadsheet on my computer, so I can look things up. I can upload it for you guys, if you want.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:20 am

    reim0027 wrote:Yeah, we can only get generalities. I have the actual weapon damage spreadsheet on my computer, so I can look things up. I can upload it for you guys, if you want.
    I would love that. I've made it my goal to get a formula. If it requires more than 4 hidden constants, I'm going to need more data.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:06 am

    I'd like to know at what point standard upgrade path overtakes elementals with respect to actual damage output. We all understand that at low levels, an elemental weapon we dole out more damage, but as you get into the 70's and 80's the stats that scale weapon damage build a decent AR, but at what point should you actually make the switch? This would be useful for midlevel builds.

    Thoughts, guys?


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:21 am

    DamageCK wrote:I'd like to know at what point standard upgrade path overtakes elementals with respect to actual damage output. We all understand that at low levels, an elemental weapon we dole out more damage, but as you get into the 70's and 80's the stats that scale weapon damage build a decent AR, but at what point should you actually make the switch? This would be useful for midlevel builds.

    Thoughts, guys?
    Math-wise, this would be when the AR to Def ratio thingy overcomes something something something


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:44 am

    No ****.

    Haha. "It starts to do more damage when it starts to do more damage..."


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:45 am

    Doughguy and I are working on a formula. We'll keep the forum posted.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by DamageCK on Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:46 am

    Sounds good.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:01 am

    Sent you the file. Let me know if it doesn't work.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:02 am

    Oh. Sorry. i didn't get back to you. Yeah. We got it. And worked on it some. But we're gonna have to pick it up tomorrow. Thanks a ton for the extra data XD


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by Buggy Virus on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:14 pm

    Dubscythe wrote:
    Buggy Virus wrote:Defense has diminishing returns against damage. So the higher your damage the less effected it is by defense.

    This means if you have two low damages they will go against the enemies two individual defense, this means these defenses won't have as great diminishing returns against these two low damages, thus blocking more. Whereas one strong damage would be blocked less, and can mean more damage although the base AR may be less.

    Ah I see, so that would explain why the GS of Artorias is hardly ever used. And why my Demon's Spear wasn't doing a good amount of damage.

    Does that end up affecting the Dragonslayer Spear a lot?

    Nah, artorias is just a scary weapon to build a toon to use.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by NordNorth on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:17 pm

    Okay this is killing me:

    What the heck is a toon?


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:18 pm

    a character.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by NordNorth on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:19 pm

    Why do we call it a toon and not a char or something similar?


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:20 pm

    It came up somewhere in the early MMO days...


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:20 pm

    no idea at all. It's just like how we call Warriors of Sunlight the Sunbros.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:21 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:no idea at all. It's just like how we call Warriors of Sunlight the Sunbros.
    I believe that came up in an LP on youtube.


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    Re: What makes split damage so bad exactly?

    Post by NordNorth on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:22 pm

    Well yeah, Sunbros make sense. To me a toon is short for cartoon, and I can't think of how in the world it turned into a shorter alternative of "character," so, I'm lost in this. lol


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