I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

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    Rynn
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    I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 7:23 am

    Before I left for a very short vacation from the forums, I posted a build that I was working on that primarily used daggers, and I planned on using pyromancy to punish people if I parried them. It has had quite an evolution however, and here is how it's changed <3.

    http://tinyurl.com/6whw82l

    Before let's continue, I'd like to remind all of you... I don't exactly play by a silly rulebook, and so any limitation I put on myself, I've got no problem removing without even batting my eyes if deemed unnecessary. I'll use TWoP to keep a person in place, and I'll also use WoTG without batting an eye if a person is being stubborn and not moving. Thusforth we reach the balance this build sits on. I think any person attempting to play by the honor standard should have the tools unnecessary to forget the honor standard on hand. I always try to build any serious build I make with the tools unnecessary for this, and I carry them on hand.

    So the first thing to know about this build, is it makes you look like a freaking tool <3. The armor setup is somewhat overdone, but it's the lightest armor to poise ratio you can use to get 77 poise. This is absolutely a benchmark value and I try to hit it with -all- my builds. That's not important though.

    I chose to use a DMB dagger, and I made some observations. The Bandits knife swings slower, and is in fact easier to parry then the Dagger and the Parry Knife. The Dagger and Parry Knife also weigh half a pound less. If my intent is anything but to backstab, I'd reccomend using these instead. With 77 poise, you can do 1890 damage before a zweihander hits you the second time. With 77 poise and 2143 HP, this means you can survive 4 hits, and do 2700 damage before those 4 hits collide.

    This means you can spam R1 and kill any weapon/stat combination EXCEPT
    Black Knight Greataxe with 66 STR, two handed, from a opponent with 1800 HP or more.
    Heavy Weaponry, DMB, + PW.

    Spamming R1 is likely to get you killed from any opponent that understands parrying, so there is a viable solution you can attempt to circumnavigate this. If your facing an opponent that has even once attempted to parry you, then upon the next "opening" where he attempts a parry, toss out a WoTG, to punish the parry. The WoTG is actually counted as counter damage and will do significantly more damage. Cast it again the next time he tries to parry. While more risky, I found a heavy attack would be outright missed by the parry 90% of the time, allowing me to do 400 damage right through their attempt to end me. Please note this build is not build around parrying or backstabbing, even with DMB on you'll only do 600 damage with a parry. A riposte might as well be used to mock them. Upon performing a riposte or backstab however, spam R1 while they are standing up. Daggers attack insanely fast, and there is an incredibly high chance that just like a combustion their attempt at dodging will result in them being hit anyway. This builds only major weakness is estus chugging, and if you're willing to do something "cheap", chugging can easily be punished with the Chaos Rapier.

    Primarily, this build is the definition of attrition. The DMB or SLB dagger does about 230 chip damage every 2 seconds, and can outright kill a person whom tries to tank the blows in less then 3. The dagger takes nearly no stamina to swing, and it's difficult to parry from the "blocking" position, so unless they bling parry the first swing, an attempt at parrying after blocking a blow results in taking 120-400 damage (depending on shield) immediatly, with no attempt at success. It takes spamming parry 3 times in a row to "catch up" to your swing and actually get a parry. That's 480-1600 damage, depending on the shield. (As mentioned, wrath of gods for parry spammers!). With 2143 HP, you can tank a nearly unlimited amount of blows while pumping out a truly unmatched amount of DPS that litterally no other weapon in the game can beat. (The bandits knife is not only easier to parry, but even with the bleed effect manages to usually inflict less damage per second).

    26 more points in dexterity are honestly wasted, and should not be used. The extra 90 or so AR you receive doesn't benefit your DPS enough to really effect many battles. Be wary of parry knives or other 'special' parry animations, they catch the knife 100% of the time, they can't miss the parry due to the rate of your attacks.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 27, 2012 7:42 am

    You're mean. Also I've dealt with similar builds, I get the feeling they're tricky to play. I very quickly learned that the miniscule stun any weapon causes when it his a shield, combined with the daggers speed, makes blocking a VERY bad Idea, they'll chip for hundreds of damage while you're stuck in the guard position being stunned.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 27, 2012 7:44 am

    How would you counter a turtle or a roll poker? Because with the little range you have it seems like spears would kill you.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 27, 2012 7:47 am

    Again, they'll chip dps faster than the spear can poke them to death. twop the rollpokers, r1 3 -5 times, dodge out, repeat. clever wog casts will end a roll spree as well.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun May 27, 2012 7:49 am

    Ah right, I'm just not used to seeing Twop on builds.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 7:54 am

    DoughGuy wrote:How would you counter a turtle or a roll poker? Because with the little range you have it seems like spears would kill you.
    Swing 3 or 4 times, then suddenly parry and hit R2 twice. 900 damage from the R2's, and 150-360 damage from the chip damage. The only shields you can beat my DPS while turtling with are ones with 80% or more magic defense, and a dagger does still cause stamina loss, so attempting to turtle will get your shield bashed away eventually. Let them turtle again after the parry punish, they almost never learn and will do it again. Only been killed by 1 turtle so far.

    If you mess up, due to a instinctual hit of R1 upon succeeding at a parry, have no fear. 600 damage for the riposte, and a good 80% of the time, lag will net you 400 more damage as the stand up and try to roll away. (Be wary of the occasional smartass who stands up and just parries.

    TWoP will also stop the roll-pokers, however expect -tons- of hatemail for it. Apparently there is no strategical value in TWoP at all and I should die in a fire for ever thinking differently.


    The mild stun that hitting a shield causes is the main reason it's impossible to line up the parry with the dagger, in fact, if you hit "block" and let go of the block button, you'll sometimes block 3 or 4 more blows before the game lets you "drop" your shield in the first place. This build is especially deadly on shield with 50% or less magic defense, as it can whittle away about 90 damage per whittle under those conditions.

    EDIT: One unlucky soul had me whittling about 220 damage through his block. He had to have like 30% magic block or less.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 27, 2012 8:16 am

    My solution was simply a clever when i dealt with him, empty swing, he advanced to mual me, instarun lock bs. don't think it would work again though. (He'd already taken damage and was in mid swing, so the bs was also a counter and it killed him.) only seen a build like this the one time that uses a dagger the one time.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 8:20 am

    Thanks for bringing up backstabs btw.
    Backstab fishers need to be especially laggy in order to get you with this build, as due to the rate you're swinging, you swivel on a dime, and even with lockong enabled, it's hard to have an opponent swivel around you to get the backstab. Furthermore, if they try to block while doing this, it will release a torrent of dead angles, easily killing 99% of the people that try to backstab me before they ever get a chance.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 27, 2012 8:30 am

    Oh i'm sure, as i said, I don't think he expected it, I hadn't tried yet in a good 5min+ fight. Probably the scariest build short of the int/ faith chaos pike, mlgs, 12 casts of wog, twop, css thing I see on occasion. (it never ends well for me), i can't imagine a second encounter with it ending favorably.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 8:32 am

    Yeah, super builds always hurt quite a lot.
    A large amount of people I fight seem to think I'm going to backstab them. I havn't the foggiest clue why though.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 27, 2012 8:42 am

    My dgm user sees the opposite. everyone thinks they can bs me. Works maybe 1 in every 20 tries. They usually just deadangle themselves, if they're stunned they're finished. minimum 1700 damage unbuffed, and without a counter bonus. no chance to do anything about it. its actually rather funny. in an idiotic sort of way.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 8:50 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:My dgm user sees the opposite. everyone thinks they can bs me. Works maybe 1 in every 20 tries. They usually just deadangle themselves, if they're stunned they're finished. minimum 1700 damage unbuffed, and without a counter bonus. no chance to do anything about it. its actually rather funny. in an idiotic sort of way.
    Get any hatemail about being a stunlocking *** or something stupid like that?
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 27, 2012 8:58 am

    Oh yeah, though that specific method, for minimum damage, only involves 1 swing. 2200 is more standard for deadangled fishers and takes 2. max damage is around 3000, still unbuffed but with the counter bonus. If i really wanted to build around it i could add another 157% damage, but that would kill my manuverability.

    Apparently I'm "uber noob" and a "gutter tramp"
    This was from a full havels mlgs user and a full giants lightning claymore btw. The very image of stunlock hunters.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 9:10 am

    I've also been called a cookie cutter build from a MoTF + Giants BKGA user before... hipocracy is funny as hell.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 27, 2012 9:18 am

    I either just ignore them, or screw with them by quoting things. Rugrats, star ocean dr. who. That kind of stuff.
    Some of the responses to I AM REPTUAR, HEAR ME ROAR are priceless. Especially if i dragon roar stun bsd them.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 9:20 am

    Forum Pirate wrote:I either just ignore them, or screw with them by quoting things. Rugrats, star ocean dr. who. That kind of stuff.
    Some of the responses to I AM REPTUAR, HEAR ME ROAR are priceless. Especially if i dragon roar stun bsd them.
    REPTAR.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun May 27, 2012 9:23 am

    Havent played 2 actually. 1, 3, and 4. never got around to 2. So many games, so little time.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun May 27, 2012 1:33 pm

    Nice pure faith build. It's a shame the Divine Rapier has less AR than the Chaos one. I would drop Vit to 50 though, after that it only get 8 HP increase per stat.


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 3:01 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:Nice pure faith build. It's a shame the Divine Rapier has less AR than the Chaos one. I would drop Vit to 50 though, after that it only get 8 HP increase per stat.
    11 due to equipment, and I stopped where my HP currently is for a reason. 2143 HP is enough to survive 3 hits from a lightning or normal zweihander if it's counted as "counter" damage on all 3 blows. The Zwei as a lightning weapon notably is still often used at level 120 :\. Surviving 3 blows isn't done at 55 vitality, 56 is the thresh-hold for my ********.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sun May 27, 2012 5:15 pm

    why 14 dex when you only need 12 to use your weapons? more end would benefit you as it allows for more swings after all, also 125 is also an accepted pvp level maybe add 5 to end (should be at least one more attack.)


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Sun May 27, 2012 5:30 pm

    The extra 2 points in dexterity are so that my backstabs do 700 damage with DMB on. It permits me to do a backstab in a pinch. Oddly I loose about 70 damage on the backstab without those points (but only gain about 10 per point after that).

    Also this build had some changes in it's development, it originally used a bandits knife, which requires 14. it has 16 strength for a similar reason. It's not entirely mini-maxed.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by nemesismonkey on Mon May 28, 2012 10:29 pm

    Man, I did a SL 225 of this build and im loving it.
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4029062203270858
    It completely annihilates everything I have fought.
    Chose sunlight blade cause i like the cat cov.
    When my buff runs off I switch rings to the hornet and just counter bs the usual bs attempt.

    Overall, winning 90% of my 2v1 forest invasions. Even them dragonbody/bow exploiters cant get a back stab off cause of the constant hit interrupts.

    Just gotta say, thanks for the build idea.
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon May 28, 2012 10:31 pm

    @Rynn how do you deal with greatshields?


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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by Rynn on Tue May 29, 2012 4:04 am

    DoughGuy wrote:@Rynn how do you deal with greatshields?
    How do you expect I'd deal with them?
    A greatshield can't parry, if you can't parry, I have no weakness. I laugh my *** off at them, and do 1600 damage while they are trying to turtle behind it.

    If they have a spear, use Wrath of Gods or parries to end them.

    And nemesis, I like it... but why not do this instead?
    http://tinyurl.com/6w2hfc2
    At 40/40 non-chaos hurts more to backstab someone with, only 100 less damage then chaos with a hornets... and Ninja Flips are overall more viable for evasion. Fill the additional attunement slots with anything you want. (Dagger swings noticably faster then bandits.]
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    Re: I was refining my "not so nice gal" build and here is my observations so far.

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue May 29, 2012 4:06 am

    Its just something like Havel's has such high reductions it doesn seem like you could get that much damage in.


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